Advice for 20" hubs.

[Benjahmin]

My neighbour has two 20" folders that he wants to convert. Not seen the bikes yet but he tells me they are 7 gears with caliper brakes and rear rack.
First port of call was Woosh, but there site doesn't detail any 20" wheels. I realise the fold is going to be a big decider here.
Looked at Cyclotricity, they have a front kit for a reasonable price - but I've never dealt with them and don't know what their motors are or what their backup is like.
I have a Panda on one of my bikes, which is fine, but they seem to be a bit iffy these days.
Not keen on flea bay, particularly as me and my neighbour get on - at the moment.

I'll get back later with 'photo's etc., but if anyones got any recommendations in the mean time, I'd be grateful.

 

[Nealh]

Yosepower sell 20" front wheel kits motor is 250w and 30nm, 250-270rpm.

 

[vfr400]

You need a light weight motor for a folding bike. The only ones I've seen in the UK are the Swytch kit. Unfortunately, Swytch have mixed reviews, but maybe they're getting themselves sorted now. Personally, I'd buy everything from China, then you can get the best motor, controller and control panel. Buy a rack battery in the UK if you can find one, otherwise get that from China too.

Woosh have their light weight crank motors coming soon. We need to see what options are available for bikes with small wheels because most CD kits have wrong speed and gearing for them.

 

[Nealh]

Brompton Nano kit currently on Ebay, working used 1 month currently at £101.

 

[Benjahmin]

OK, so my neighbour has two of these that he wants to convert.
They are Apollo Transitions from Halfords. 26" wheel, simple frame fold with foldable handlebar stem.
Front dropouts are 100mm, rear appears to be 130mm. Clearance on bb spindle to peddle is a bit tight at 3mm. Gears are 6 speed shimano with twist grip change.
Mid drive is out as there is a stirrup under the bb.
Looking for either front or rear hub with rack battery (probably going to have to change the rack).








This is my first folder conversion, so any pointers gratefully received.
Fitted wheels are only 26 spokes - never seen those before - so bare hub is probably out.
Not sure about Swytch, firstly because of all the battery weight hanging on the bars, but also really not sure how well they're doing.

So far spotted this one:
https://www.yosepower.com/en/product/Hub-Motor-36V250W-20"-Front-Motor-Bicycle-E-Bike-Hub-Conversion-Kit-Silver-DIY-E-bike-LCD-Display-with-Front-Light-121.html

They don't seem to do a 20" rear, unless I'm missing it.

 

[vfr400]

What's a strip under the BB? Is it a cable guide? Please show a photo.

OK, I can see now. Why didn't you switch the light on to take your photos?

The Swytch kit is not that good tegarding handling. You can feel the weight acting like a pendelum.

Any normal rear hub motor kit should work. I don’t see anything complicated. A rack battery will be OK as long as you don't want a massive one.

 

[Nealh]

You don't necessarily have to go for a rack battery combo, you could fix a base to the present rack and use any battery (opens up a few more battery options) with it's included frame carrier. Bolt/fix the carrier to the rack base and then just slide battery on and lock it in place.

Rear hub will need to be freewheel hub for screw on gear cluster.

 

[harrys]

Interesting bikes with 20" front and 26" rear. If I were doing a bike for someone else, it would be a rear wheel, as I don't want the responsibility of a front hub motor coming loose. At best, it only breaks all the wires. At worst, someone gets hurt.

I've got a low power front hub on an alloy fork myself at home, but it's on me to watch the nuts.

With the larger wheel, you should have all kinds of options in the UK .

 

[RossG]

One of these bikes for sale on ebay at the moment. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223444329135

 

[Benjahmin]

What's a strip under the BB? Is it a cable guide? Please show a photo.

OK, I can see now. Why didn't you switch the light on to take your photos?

The Swytch kit is not that good tegarding handling. You can feel the weight acting like a pendelum.

Any normal rear hub motor kit should work. I don’t see anything complicated. A rack battery will be OK as long as you don't want a massive one.

I did honest, but they're all down lights and not much reflection of the oak floor.
It's a sort of stirrup, probably for protecting the paintwork when folded.
Yose power don't seem to do a rear 20", I've linked a front 20" above.
He's wanting fair sized batteries so thought one of these might do. I'm assuming the base will strap/bolt to the existing rack. The frame is a simple fold so I'm thinking the cabling would not be a problem.

https://www.yosepower.com/en/product/Rear-Battery-36V10.4Ah/13Ah/13.2Ah-Electric-Bike-Li-ion-Battery-for-Mifa-for-Prophete-DIY-72.html

Looking at BMS battery, all their motors are 350w or above. Anyone know how they are marked? I ask because these bikes will be going abroad in a camper and I wouldn't want him to get pulled. They do a Q100H 120rpm in a 20" wheel, but they say it's 350w.
Also, they do rear rack batteries but don't state what wheel size they are for.

Oh this is fun !

 

[Benjahmin]

Harrys, it's 20" both ends. I said the wheels only have 26spokes, perhaps that's the confusion.

 

[vfr400]

Q100 used to have an easy peal label, but now they seem to use genuine Aikema motors, which are engraved, but I don't think the power is marked

 

[RossG]

I would advise great caution at attempting to convert these bikes to electric. They're very basic mass produced for Halfords machines, somehow I can't see them standing up to the rigors of being motorized.
Another thing is they sell for around £50 on flea bay, here in my town we have a market seller where such machines change hands for about 30 quid. With that in mind I'm having difficulty understanding why anyone would want to spend several times the value of the bike on a conversion ?
Incidentally no body mentioned it but on pic. 3 it looks like one of the rear rack stays is split, maybe it's a trick of the light or something stuck to it. I'm not sure I would want to attach a heavy battery to the rack as it is.

 

[vfr400]

I've converted a few bikes like that. I can't see any problem and I don’t think their price has any bearing on it. If I'm honest, I'd prefer better brakes, but that can always be sorted later. Decent pads would probably make a difference.

Some rack batteries come with the rack, which will replace what's on the bike. If you get one of those, make sure it adjusts for the height of a 20" wheel bike.

If I were going to convert that bike, I'd use a Q100 rear motor, KT sine wave controller, normal pedal sensor and single hidden wire brake sensor on the rear brake cable installed in the cable where it's nearest to the controller. That means only one cable for the LCD will have to fold with the bars and middle fold.

 

[Benjahmin]

It turns out that the forks are steel as are the dropouts, rear dropouts are aluminium. So most convenient would be the Yose power front kit (torque arms sourced elsewhere) with a bolt on rack battery.
For rear it looks like it would be BMS battery, where I would have to put the kit together. Then source the battery from Yose as BMS don't seem to do the type of rack mount needed. Little more complicated but doable.

 

[Benjahmin]

Crossed with your post vfr.
What you say about the fold and cables makes sense. So it looks like BMS for the motor etc, and Yose for battery. I'll start putting a list together.

 

[Nealh]

Price of bike is irrelevant for converting as the kit is not wasted and at any time in the future can be easily reused.
Some of my kits have been transferred a few times to different bikes and I don't see value of bike as an issue.
As long as the hub is secured properly in the drops outs and a T/A is used and wheel nuts nice and tight then the bike will be fine unless it is made of cheese. You may not want ot do jumps or downhill/offroad but other wise should be no different then any other folder/small bike offering.

 

[Benjahmin]

I've been trawling BMSB and I've come up with a list. If you spot something that's missing or something that won't fit together, I'd be grateful for the steer.

Motor Wheel
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/633-16315-q100h-36v350w-rear-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html#/327-rpm-260
They don't say, but I think this is the one for screw on 6 speed cassete.

Controller:
https://bmsbattery.com/controller/546-s06s-250w-torque-simulation-sine-wave-controller-ebike-kit.html
Maximum current not stated here, but I assume this is the one .

Display:
https://bmsbattery.com/meterdisplay/740-16673-s-lcd5-lcd-meter-for-s-series-controlers-ebike-kit.html#/137-color-black
All in one unit to keep handlebars clutter free and only one cable to go past the fold.

PAS:
https://bmsbattery.com/parts/579-ten-poles-pas-pulse-padel-assistant-sensor-ebike-kit.html
Think I'll stand more chance of getting this in than an all in one type.

HWBS:
https://bmsbattery.com/parts/459-hwbs-hidden-wire-brake-sensor-1pcs-parts.html
What a great idea, allows me to keep original brake levers.

Cassette tool:
https://bmsbattery.com/parts/659-cassette-remover-and-install-tool-parts.html
I have crank puller already.

This is the first time I've put bits together, hopefully I've got it all.
I'm looking at Yosepower for batteries as they do bolt on racks.

 

[RossG]

The Apollo Transition bike is a machine I know quite well, simple inexpensive and perfect for nipping round Tesco's and picking up the kid's from school, conversion to an e-bike, well that's a different matter.
The mechanical stresses on a folding bike are very different to a traditional diamond frame for starters, where would you say the weak point is on a folder...the hinge ? Folding bike enthusiasts reading this will know it's not so I wont go into the stress dynamics of the frame regarding shearing and torsional forces.
The Transition is a bike built to a price point...cheap, hence my reference to it's cost. As such it flexes creaks and groans which makes it entirely unsuitable for converting to an e-bike bearing in mind the extra stresses it will encounter.
Could it be done ? yes easily I'd say, I believe someone fitted a ram-jet to one once ! but IMHO the answer is don't.
I'll look forward to the 1000m review

 

[vfr400]

Thats the wrong cassette removal tool. You need a freewheel removal tool. Any freewheel tool will get the one off your old wheel, but once you put it on the motor, it most likely won't get it off again. You need an ebike one for that, which aren't so easy to find. It just needs a hole big enough to go over the axle (12mm).

You might want to think about a pair of torque arms too.

Make sure you tick 260 rpm for the motor.

Just so that you know, a 260 rpm motor in a 20" wheel won't be very fast, but it'll be good for climbing. It'll give good power around 12 mph, but it will then tail off to nothing at around 15 mph. You can add about 10% to those speeds with a fully charged battery, but then you need to subtract 10% when the battery is empty.