Accelerator and new law question

[wightrider]

With regards to the new (pathetic) outlawing of an accelerator for bikes manufactured from 1st Jan 2016 I presume this means that so long as you have a frame number that you can prove was manufactured before this date you can still fit an accelerator kit?

 

[flecc]

Not really, since you would be modifying after the applicable date. The bike's approval to standards like EN15194 remains what it was supplied as, pedelec only.

You would be converting it to one needing a type approval, so you'd need to take it through SVA.
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[wightrider]

Maybe I didn't word my question correctly. Let's say I want to restore a classic E-Bike (don't laugh). Returning it to it's standard form must be possible in the same way classic vehicles are able to run without indicators or with black number plates or without catalytic converters. The only problem may be finding new off the shelf accelerator kits (would they be banned? probably no market for them). I cannot see this as being illegal if it's being returned to standard form.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The only problem may be finding new off the shelf accelerator kits (would they be banned? probably no market for them). I cannot see this as being illegal if it's being returned to standard form.

Don't worry about that they are available everywhere. They are only banned in their full speed version, legal as a walk along aid up to 6 kph and as a launching aid to 20 kph on s-pedelecs.

 

[craiggor]

Wightrider I think your are correct in your thinking.Bare in mind 250w bikes with throttle where only legal for 9 months in 2015.Any thing before April 2015 would have to be limited to 200 w.As you say any motorcycle built after 1986 needs indicators,but any motorcycle built before can have indicators fitted and be legal.So I think fitting a 250w motor and throttle in a pre April 2015 ebike would be legal.A chap on here has just turned a old powabyke in to a rat/survival ebike.

 

[flecc]

Maybe I didn't word my question correctly. Let's say I want to restore a classic E-Bike (don't laugh). Returning it to it's standard form must be possible in the same way classic vehicles are able to run without indicators or with black number plates or without catalytic converters. The only problem may be finding new off the shelf accelerator kits (would they be banned? probably no market for them). I cannot see this as being illegal if it's being returned to standard form.

You'd probably get away with this, so long as you can show that the e-bike is genuinely pre 2016.

However, strictly speaking still not legal if the vintage bike wasn't originally supplied with a throttle, since you'd be converting from the original specification which may have been approved to EN15194 and CE standards.
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[OldBob1]

And go back to SLA batteries

 

[brightonebikes]

I believed these guidelines from the Department of Transport Nov. 2015 and referring to Jan 2016 changes were the revised version for UK?

It reads
"Power assistance - "Twist and Go" Because of the particular benefits for elderly and disabled users, pedal cycles providing electrical assistance without use of the pedals - usually called "Twist and Goes" - are included in the above GB classification provided they are capable of pedal operation and comply with the above restrictions on maximum motor power and assistance cut-off speed.
However, under European law5 new "Twist and Go" vehicles will, from January 2016, have to meet a range of technical requirements before they can be used on roads. This will normally be established by "type approval" at the manufacturing stage but importers and individuals will be able to seek an individual approval for vehicles that have not been type approved."


http://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/uploads/5/5/9/9/55994159/throttle_electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf

 

[trex]

Please read flecc's post :

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/1-1-2016-todays-change-in-the-law.23007/page-9#post-290873


http://www.flecc.co.uk/m/Information Sheet Type Approval for Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles - Nov 15 copy.pdf

 

[brightonebikes]

Yes, I have and I like it. Thanks trex

 

[wightrider]

We'll be out of Europe soon anyway

 

[flecc]

We'll be out of Europe soon anyway

Even if true, we'd still be bound by this law, Norway being an example, never a member but having exactly the same EU EPAC law.

The reason is simple. To be able to carry out trade with the EU as an EFTA member we'd need to comply a with a large range of their laws and some are fundamental to agreement. Transport law is one of those since all transport crosses borders.

And apart from that, if anyone thinks the DfT will rush to ease our EAPC law, they should think again. Even if a miracle happened and they removed the two stages of EU law that changed our EAPC regulations, we'd be left with a strict 200 watt limit and assist speed limit of 12 mph. Yes that's right, our original UK law only provided for 12 mph assist, altered in two stages to fit with Europe, first to 15 mph and last year that refined to 15.5 mph for exactness.
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[trex]

it usually takes a lot of time and effort to create a new law, Norway for example simply adopt thousands of EU laws even when they don't have to just to save time and money.
It's all too easy to ridicule EU directives, most of them are actually there to raise standard.

 

[flecc]

it usually takes a lot of time and effort to create a new law, Norway for example simply adopt thousands of EU laws even when they don't have to just to save time and money.
It's all too easy to ridicule EU directives, most of them are actually there to raise standard.

Switzerland too, they've kept in step with various EU laws simply to co-exist more easily with their neighbours.
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[brightonebikes]

The current reason for GB retaining throttle use option up to 25kph strikes me as odd.... Why would "disabled and elderly people" be considered for only a two year period, then left to try and tackle longer distances and steep hills solely with pedal assist thereafter?
Is it anticipated that disabilities and old age will have disappeared in two years from now?
With the recent COP21 conference, governments could take great benefits from more people converting from car to e-bike as a form of everyday transport. A keen roadie will power along comfortably at 25mph+ for dozens of miles, so it seems nonsensical that a throttle for the less able up to 15-20mph is to be outlawed.
We have the technology, it needs to be embraced xXx
Meh!
Darren

 

[flecc]

The current reason for GB retaining throttle use option up to 25kph strikes me as odd.... Why would "disabled and elderly people" be considered for only a two year period,

It seems to be due to an administrative delay Darren.

The new provision for having a throttle for those needing one is by type approval to meet EU law requirements. However there is currently no type approval class for pedelecs with throttles and the existing L1e-A (Low Powered Moped) class requirements are impractical for pedelecs.

The January 2018 date is anticipated for introduction of the necessary new type approval class, but meanwhile the DfT is waiving the type approval requirement so that no-one is discriminated against.
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[brightonebikes]

It seems to be due to an administrative delay Darren.

The new provision for having a throttle for those needing one is by type approval to meet EU law requirements. However there is currently no type approval class for pedelecs with throttles and the existing L1e-A (Low Powered Moped) class requirements are impractical for pedelecs.

The January 2018 date is anticipated for introduction of the necessary new type approval class, but meanwhile the DfT is waiving the type approval requirement so that no-one is discriminated against.
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Thank you flecc, really appreciate your explanation.
Had to read it a few times.... ;P
I'm as much for safety as I am against discrimination; allowing loads of loons on 3kw rat bikes would not be clever.
Sensible people can be responsible for themselves and each other and are the majority.
Sure, limit max. W, max. speed etc.
A good 250w mid drive is ample for larger people or carrying loads and could gain speeds using gravity alone of over 30mph, so why should there be an issue for throttle boost up to 15mph odd?
Not to make it accessible to as many people as possible seems daft. Just a bureaucratic thing I guess? :\
Darren

 

[flecc]

why should there be an issue for throttle boost up to 15mph odd?
Not to make it accessible to as many people as possible seems daft. Just a bureaucratic thing I guess? :\
Darren

It's historic Darren. The origins seem to have been the pedelec law in Japan which had a proportional power provision meaning the control of power had to be through the pedals.

When the EU needed a law for pedelecs they seem to have followed the Japanese example, exactly the same 250 watts and exactly the same 25 kph assist limit, exactly the same control by pedals only. Rather than adopt the Japanese complex proportional power arrangement they merely specified that the power should phase down before reaching 25 kph.

The Japanese law is fascinating in the way it controls power, and you can read about it a quarter way down my article on how the original Panasonic unit operates on this link.

You'll be pleased our law is nothing like as strict!
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[brightonebikes]

Brilliant. Thank you, I will do.

 

[wightrider]

I find it all hilarious and am someone who has spent most of their working life in enforcement and delivering requirements for EU Directives. It's a little button that makes you go slow without the use of pedals.....OMG why did we ever venture out of our Neolithic caves when the world is so dangerous (that was all done in a sarcastic voice by the way and wasn't aimed at any individuals )
I understand the point that an even playing field makes manufacture and trade less complex but I can never imagine anyone enforcing this law beyond the manufacturing stage. That said.... last week I saw a woman on an electric moped wizzing along the highway not wearing a helmet. I couldn't tell if this was 30mph road machine as even the pedal ones are looking like regular mopeds...these are the one's which will attract attention as it looks like a protective clothing offence.