Here is my story of my experience of the world of electric bikes. Having an occupation that locks me to a chair for many hours I decided that I would increase my excercise by cycling to golf. The journey is only just over 6 miles but is very hilly. I am not talking little bumps but serious and long hills. I started out with a Schwinn Tailwind. Great price and the build quality and fittings were of a very high standard. First trip the battery gave up after 5 miles. Bike came in at around 29kg and cycling up a steep hill with no power nearly killed me. It went back. Next was a Tonaro Big Hit. Great concept and fantastic customer support. Unfortunately the rear drop outs had been fitted or machined out of square. It ended up with the rear brake binding or not working at all. Another bike that went back. I then thought I would be smart and buy a decent bike and convert it. My thinking was I could get a fairly light weight mountain bike and have control over the standard and quality of the cycle parts. I settled on a Trek 6000. Very nice bike. I had seen it on a Bionx promotional video and went for the Bionx kit. Big mistake as the shallow rear dropouts were not man enough for the job. Back that goes. I have then been waiting on the Daahub to materialise. I have even offered to do real world testing. Lots of promises but nothing materialised. I have looked at several of the other kit options but did not really want a rear rack battery. I loved the look of the Oxydrive but am yet to see any real world reviews and the latest situation is that they have not got cut out switches that I can adapt for use on hydraulic brakes. By now the unused Trek is ten months old and is gathering dust. I thought I would sell it and go for one of the newer Bosch powered kits. Looking at complete bikes with decent specification I am now looking at a price range in excess of £2,600.00. At this stage my wife says why are you bothering with all? Why not just get a small motorbike. Get to golf more often and get your exercise there. This made me have a rethink. I have looked at a few Honda 125 models. What then dawned on me was the disproportionately high cost of the pedelecs over the motorcycle. If we look at the same price bracket you can get a very high quality and well developed motorcycle that is cheap to run with minimal environmental impact. Now I am torn. Go for the expensive pedelec with no great track record or a small motorcycle that has been going for years. Is it the scale of production that pushes the cost of ebikes to such a high level or are we being taken advantage of as niche market consumers?
A whole can of worms for a Monday morning = Pedelec v 125cc Motorcycle
- Thread starter PJM
- Start date
Blimey PJM, you have had some serious bad luck with ebikes!
Your wife made a pretty good point, I'd say but you have raised an even better point in the field of price comparison. It is difficult, for me at any rate, to understand how top-end ebikes are so much more expensive than some of those fairly-well equipped light motorcycles you mention. I'd guess economies of scale plays a large part but it does make me wonder how ebikes can be £3000 - £5000. They seem to still utilise Shimano bits for God's sake!
I'm sure others will come along and enlighten us but may I wish you the best of luck with whichever two-wheeled machine next takes your fancy.
Indalo
Your wife made a pretty good point, I'd say but you have raised an even better point in the field of price comparison. It is difficult, for me at any rate, to understand how top-end ebikes are so much more expensive than some of those fairly-well equipped light motorcycles you mention. I'd guess economies of scale plays a large part but it does make me wonder how ebikes can be £3000 - £5000. They seem to still utilise Shimano bits for God's sake!
I'm sure others will come along and enlighten us but may I wish you the best of luck with whichever two-wheeled machine next takes your fancy.
Indalo
All sounds very frustrating, surprised the oxydrive has no solution for hydraulic breaks as my DaaHub ones work fine. Have you spoken to David of Wisper about the kits availability yet, I suggest you call him.
I'm not going to comment on petrol bikes as I have no interest. But petrol machines have always been cheaper, and this has little to do with the reasoning we choose e biking.
a Haibike XDuro can be had for £2000 and the Trekking model for £2200 delivered to your door, if you don't like it they will take it away.....this way you get to try on your route.
shame we have not replaced the Bosch KTM yet as you could have tried that and the DaaHub as previously offered on my local hills...I still think ezee kit best for where you live as it is powerful, personally under the circumstances i would not be bothered about rear battery when considering Sanderstead hill!
what about the 8Fun kit with bottle battery, cheap and cheerful and a good few fitted on here (see recent thorn raven thread) so no problems with support. at least it would get you going....
I'm not going to comment on petrol bikes as I have no interest. But petrol machines have always been cheaper, and this has little to do with the reasoning we choose e biking.
a Haibike XDuro can be had for £2000 and the Trekking model for £2200 delivered to your door, if you don't like it they will take it away.....this way you get to try on your route.
shame we have not replaced the Bosch KTM yet as you could have tried that and the DaaHub as previously offered on my local hills...I still think ezee kit best for where you live as it is powerful, personally under the circumstances i would not be bothered about rear battery when considering Sanderstead hill!
what about the 8Fun kit with bottle battery, cheap and cheerful and a good few fitted on here (see recent thorn raven thread) so no problems with support. at least it would get you going....
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You have had bad luck havent you, and its not as if you are trying to do a long journey.
With this in mind, surely there must be an e-bike suitable for what you want without going too high in price.
I know you say the hills are quite steep, but its not a long distance so most of the hub driven bikes would be able to manage that, never mind the crank driven ones.
Why not try again with say, something like an Ezee with a decent motor and battery, or, well, there are lots of others that should easily do it.
I take your wifes point, but you wont get the same level of exercise playing golf as you will pedalling there, and as you obviously really love the e-bike concept I would suggest you try some more models......and not necessarily the most expensive ones.
As for price......down to numbers isnt it, and a bit of the 'niche market' mentality, I have to agree that £3 to 5 grand for an electric bike is verging on the ridiculous, I dont care how innovative they are.
Good luck anyway.......keep trying, it will be out there somewhere......and when you find it dont forget to let us all know
Lynda
With this in mind, surely there must be an e-bike suitable for what you want without going too high in price.
I know you say the hills are quite steep, but its not a long distance so most of the hub driven bikes would be able to manage that, never mind the crank driven ones.
Why not try again with say, something like an Ezee with a decent motor and battery, or, well, there are lots of others that should easily do it.
I take your wifes point, but you wont get the same level of exercise playing golf as you will pedalling there, and as you obviously really love the e-bike concept I would suggest you try some more models......and not necessarily the most expensive ones.
As for price......down to numbers isnt it, and a bit of the 'niche market' mentality, I have to agree that £3 to 5 grand for an electric bike is verging on the ridiculous, I dont care how innovative they are.
Good luck anyway.......keep trying, it will be out there somewhere......and when you find it dont forget to let us all know
Lynda
Hi PJM, I've wondered how you've been getting on with Sanderstead Hill and Slines Oak Road, obviously not too well with your further e-biking efforts, and I remember you weren't too impressed with the Tonaro's performance on those climbs either.
As a long term motorcyclist and cyclist/e-biker, I think the 125cc is the best choice for you by far. Honda's 125 bikes are well sorted, civilised and invariably amazingly reliable. Their prices are low, their economy means the price of petrol hardly matters, support is excellent and the resale value is very good too.
E-bikes can be fun and retain some of the charms of cycling, but as working transport they often still leave much to be desired in terms of purchase price, ongoing battery costs, maintenance necessary and long term reliability.
Ridden sensibly to avoid other traffic risks, the motorbike wins on all counts for that purpose.
.
As a long term motorcyclist and cyclist/e-biker, I think the 125cc is the best choice for you by far. Honda's 125 bikes are well sorted, civilised and invariably amazingly reliable. Their prices are low, their economy means the price of petrol hardly matters, support is excellent and the resale value is very good too.
E-bikes can be fun and retain some of the charms of cycling, but as working transport they often still leave much to be desired in terms of purchase price, ongoing battery costs, maintenance necessary and long term reliability.
Ridden sensibly to avoid other traffic risks, the motorbike wins on all counts for that purpose.
.
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You can still get a Kalkoff panasonic motored bike with 18ah battery for under £2,000, which would give you all the range and hill climbing you want, even so you're right. £1,800 would buy a Honda Vision 110. 140mpg they say so you'd probably be safe to assume 100mpg. It would be much quicker than an e-bike, but also much noisier. I suppose a fairer like for like comparison is to deduct the battery cost from the purchase price.
It really depends on if you want to ride a bicycle. The electric bike can be a great way to get into cycling regularly, especially if you've been off riding for a while.
It really depends on if you want to ride a bicycle. The electric bike can be a great way to get into cycling regularly, especially if you've been off riding for a while.
PJM after that experience you ought to try a 50cc Scooter as if you passed your car test before February 2001 you can ride one without L plates or tests . If you don`t want to spend much look at the WK Bikes Go50 at £799 or if you are really feeling flushed look at the Honda Vision 50 at £1650 . Both will do over 30 mph and 120 mpg . For exercise use an ordinary push bike . They were down to £70 in Home Bargains last week .
My choice too, the CG125 is one of the all time greats of motorcycling, and very civilised.
Hi I have an electric scooter just like a full size 250 cc runs on 60 volt Li-ion battery 48Ah Hydraulic disc brakes
range 60 miles 60 MPH top speed Direct drive 3,000 watt motor silent
classed as a B motorcycle IE 125cc
Comprehensive insurance £108 year
Frank
range 60 miles 60 MPH top speed Direct drive 3,000 watt motor silent
classed as a B motorcycle IE 125cc
Comprehensive insurance £108 year
Frank
Spot on, Flecc. There are three possible reasons for riding an e-bike as far as I can see:
(1) No licence (especially for a motorbike).
(2) Because they're fun to ride.
(3) For the exercise.
In my case, the first doesn't apply, but the other two do. I don't see them as being particularly economical forms of transport mile-for-mile, and their practicality is therefore limited. Nevertheless I think they're the greatest 'discovery' I've made in recent years, because while you're having fun riding (and often pissing off the lycras, a bonus) you really can't help getting exercise, and I don't know of anything else which doesn't require willpower in that department, at least as far as I'm concerned.
Cycling without worrying about hills or headwinds - a gift from the gods!
Rog.
(4) No Noise
(5) No:
(5a) Plugs
(5b) Points
(5c) 2-stroke mix... maybe
(5d) No petrol station near...
(6) Smell
(7) any others...?
(5) No:
(5a) Plugs
(5b) Points
(5c) 2-stroke mix... maybe
(5d) No petrol station near...
(6) Smell
(7) any others...?
If the exercise is not a fundamental part, then definitely go for a CG125. I've done many miles on them, and my brother had 4. One of them did 137000 miles and never went wrong. It was stolen otherwise he would probably still be riding it.
For pure transport efficiency and convenience, a motorcycle makes huge sense, which is why I commute on a motorcycle.
E-Bikes are fun, it is a bicycle at the end of the day with a bit of magic sparkle thrown in, which I love. But it could never challenge my Yamaha. Of course another benefit with a legal e-bike is, you can go to the pub and not have to worry about drink driving, especiallly as my Eagle runs so well after I've had a few!!
For pure transport efficiency and convenience, a motorcycle makes huge sense, which is why I commute on a motorcycle.
E-Bikes are fun, it is a bicycle at the end of the day with a bit of magic sparkle thrown in, which I love. But it could never challenge my Yamaha. Of course another benefit with a legal e-bike is, you can go to the pub and not have to worry about drink driving, especiallly as my Eagle runs so well after I've had a few!!
I owned a CG125 back in 2000 . I bought it second hand for £250 . I had it in my workshop and checked over , adjusted brakes and chain etc . It was my re-introduction to motorcycles after a break of about30 years . I took it out for a quick test ride , and was gone for 5 hours . Cheap , reliable , sensible riding position , economical , and will cruise all day at 50 MPH .
Oh no! Many are 4 stroke now, electronic ignition so no points, plugs last for years as the do with cars, many are very quiet and at 100 mpg, every petrol station is near!
Wow, a sensible discussion about cycling versus motorcycling. You definately wouldn't see this on the non-ebike cycling forums I belong to. Motor vehicles are generally viewed as the spawn of the devil !
As stated by others a small motorcycle makes a lot of sense for speed of journey and overall costs, but if exercise is a factor a bicycle gains ground.
I also have a motorcycle, and there are other factors such as the speed of other traffic, the type of road, travelling in the dark, and many others in making the choice.
As stated by others a small motorcycle makes a lot of sense for speed of journey and overall costs, but if exercise is a factor a bicycle gains ground.
I also have a motorcycle, and there are other factors such as the speed of other traffic, the type of road, travelling in the dark, and many others in making the choice.
Not as near as the nearest electrical socket... (But I'm being picky...)every petrol station is near!
Mechnophobia is not yet listed on Wikipedia, but will be, once all the remaining engineering courses are cut from the school curricular, and that syndrome does highlight an advantage of electric bikes and electric motorcycles: many poor younger souls fear mechanics, just as older folk, more commonly than youngsters, suffer technophobia.
Personally I love the grease and smells and would love to fiddle all day with old engines. I'm really just jealous...
They're pretty well all 4-stroke AND water cooled because that's the only way they get through the type-approval requirements insofar as it affects pollution from the exhaust. No carburettors either - electronic injection, for the same reason. Most of those rules came in around 2003-2006 if memory serves.Oh no! Many are 4 stroke now, electronic ignition so no points, plugs last for years as the do with cars, many are very quiet and at 100 mpg, every petrol station is near!
That's why the CG125 isn't sold here any more, but it's alive and well in the third world as are many clones of Chinese origin. A good idea doesn't easily die.
Rog.
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