A UK company which designs and manufactures here in the UK- ebike kits.

[Woosh]

Well it seems prices is the main criteria here when comes to kits.

I think there is more than that but also think flecc is right, people buy kits because of the obvious savings beside the satisfaction of knowing all nooks and crannies in your bike.
Coming back to the subject uk companies which design and manufacture here in the UK. That's a subject that I constantly think about since I started in 2011. Hatti here talked to KudosDave and Wisper David and other UK e-bike companies from time to time. We are all motivated to add value to what we do.
I am more interested in the tech aspect but I still have to return a reasonable operational profit to pay the wages. That puts a limit to the commercial risks that I can take. Modifying a frame is OK like I did to sit my crank motor above the bottom bracket but when you look at kits, you have the motor, the battery and the electronics. I can't see where the commercial quantities would come from to manufacture locally.

Woosh Krieger 2016 with the motor sitting above the bottom bracket and gearshift sensor placed inside the downtube:

 

[flecc]

when you look at kits, you have the motor, the battery and the electronics. I can't see where the commercial quantities would come from to manufacture locally.

Exactly, and why I think Bosa's well meaning pro-British posting campaign misguided.

It's an old truism that to succeed in manufacturing, a strong home market is very important, but of course Britain doesn't have a strong home market for pedelecs, pro rata to population. Compared to the major cycling countries who are our neighbours, it is very weak. And of course the kit market is even smaller yet.
.

 

[Woosh]

Bosa's first thread about the Neodrives is telling about the prospects of local manufacturing.
Alber GmbH makes wheelchairs and electric wheelchairs. So they have already got the motor and electronics. What's wrong with selling the kit as Neodrives Z20? I reckon the volume is just not there and some dealers simply want out so the kits find their way into the gray market. BTW, the Z20 is listed as 40NM, 250W DD motor with built in TS.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

Looks like a very decent bike at fantastic price. Brakes would be my first upgrade followed by suspension seat post and better saddle. Looks like a no brainer to me.

The geared hub motor with pretty much zero drag and the full 3x7 gearing means its actually far easier to cycle unpowered than many high cost solutions. The fact the hub motor doesn't work through the drivetrain means the wear rate of components is very low and the chance of chain snaps is even less than a standard bicycle so much safer to ride long distances for those reasons. I'm personally not a fan of suspension especially at the front. I would probably change to rigid forks if I could find some at a reasonable price. The forks don't look terrible though. Better than I expected for the price point. I started watching the video expecting it to be awful but at the end I thought actually a very decent option despite the low price.

 

[Az.]

...and hub motor makes it easier to change gears, so compromise can be made on front and rear mech. I still think kit offers better value for money, but it is a good ready made alternative for those who are not keen on DIY.
I like front suspension, but you are right - fork on this one is not so good. At this price can't expect better though.

You should post it on HotUKDeals IMO

 

[JakeCy]

Hi everyone. I am Jake from Cytronex so can answer any questions people have. It is true that our kit is not for everyone and depending on what someones needs are then we are fair and tell them that Cytronex may not be best for them.

Our website is a little outdated right now as we are awaiting our new one to go live. Our bottle is 198wh and there are 5 power levels instead of 3 and can be adjusted in our mobile App.

On this forum, we do seem to have a reputation for poor support, which is something we can't change quickly but it is something that I wish we could change. We reply quickly to all emails and techincal queries but often people will search for support online first which is a natural thing to do. I deal with most techincal queries and try to be as helpful as possible remotely first in case theres an easy fix to one's problem. If thats not possible, then we do have to investigate further in our workshop. We have all parts available for repairs and can complete jobs with a quick turnaround. Its a big value of ours as a company to repair instead of replace (where possible) and the only part not manfactuered in the UK is the motor we use. We are hoping to change that in the near future. This particular market is price sensitive (vale for money is a key facotr in making a decision on what kit to purchase). We do want to eventually bring prices down but inevitably, that is a consequence of near 100% British manufacturing.

We have been going for a long time (2008) and the product have developed a lot in that time. Looking back now, the first kits we produced used much more simple technology and range was limited but our goal then was really focusing on lightweight ebikes. Now, our vision is not so much in purely creating lightweight ebikes but having a kit that is easy to self-install and give your self a bike that can replace your car for shorter journeys. Our current system has much better range and most customers enjoy rides between 25-40 miles using the assistance.

If you have more queries let me know. I don't show up on here often but have been a lurker over the years!

Thanks
Jake

 

[Az.]

Welcome Jake.

the only part not manfactuered in the UK is the motor we use.

Does it mean you manufacture controllers, battery cells and assemble batteries in UK?

 

[saneagle]

Hi everyone. I am Jake from Cytronex so can answer any questions people have. It is true that our kit is not for everyone and depending on what someones needs are then we are fair and tell them that Cytronex may not be best for them.

Our website is a little outdated right now as we are awaiting our new one to go live. Our bottle is 198wh and there are 5 power levels instead of 3 and can be adjusted in our mobile App.

On this forum, we do seem to have a reputation for poor support, which is something we can't change quickly but it is something that I wish we could change. We reply quickly to all emails and techincal queries but often people will search for support online first which is a natural thing to do. I deal with most techincal queries and try to be as helpful as possible remotely first in case theres an easy fix to one's problem. If thats not possible, then we do have to investigate further in our workshop. We have all parts available for repairs and can complete jobs with a quick turnaround. Its a big value of ours as a company to repair instead of replace (where possible) and the only part not manfactuered in the UK is the motor we use. We are hoping to change that in the near future. This particular market is price sensitive (vale for money is a key facotr in making a decision on what kit to purchase). We do want to eventually bring prices down but inevitably, that is a consequence of near 100% British manufacturing.

We have been going for a long time (2008) and the product have developed a lot in that time. Looking back now, the first kits we produced used much more simple technology and range was limited but our goal then was really focusing on lightweight ebikes. Now, our vision is not so much in purely creating lightweight ebikes but having a kit that is easy to self-install and give your self a bike that can replace your car for shorter journeys. Our current system has much better range and most customers enjoy rides between 25-40 miles using the assistance.

If you have more queries let me know. I don't show up on here often but have been a lurker over the years!

Thanks
Jake

I wish you the best, Jake.

How long have you been with Cytronex? When I was at the Cycle show a couple of years ago, I was asking a lady on your stand a few technical questions. She was quite unfriendly and couldn't answer my questions, so she introduced me to her technical expert (you?) in a very cinical and patronising way. He was very arrogant and didn't answer my question. Which was quite simple, "Why did you fit the motor in the drop-outs inverted?". The guy insisted it was a special motor without giving any details, but it looked pretty standard to me. The two people had a good laugh at my expense. I don't think that was the best way to behave on a stand at a cycle show. I know you get a lot of stupid questions. I've been on stands myself there for other brands, so I know what it's like.

 

[flecc]

On this forum, we do seem to have a reputation for poor support, which is something we can't change quickly but it is something that I wish we could change.

Hi Jake, welcome to the forum. The regrettable reputation is historic of course, since Cytronex featured strongly here from the 2008 beginnings, but the brand has largely been absent here in recent years.

So an opportunity now for a fresh start.
.

 

[JakeCy]

I wish you the best, Jake.

How long have you been with Cytronex? When I was at the Cycle show a couple of years ago, I was asking a lady on your stand a few technical questions. She was quite unfriendly and couldn't answer my questions, so she introduced me to her technical expert (you?) in a very cinical and patronising way. He was very arrogant and didn't answer my question. Which was quite simple, "Why did you fit the motor in the drop-outs inverted?". The guy insisted it was a special motor without giving any details, but it looked pretty standard to me. The two people had a good laugh at my expense. I don't think that was the best way to behave on a stand at a cycle show. I know you get a lot of stupid questions. I've been on stands myself there for other brands, so I know what it's like.

Hi Saneagle

I have been here for just over 5 years now and have been to some of our trade shows. It is true, there will always be odd questions, not that I think that is one. At our trade shows, I was always on the test track and not at the stand itself so sorry to hear that was your experience previously. I enjoy chatting to people about what we do and the test track was a great place for that.

What other stands had you been part of, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks
Jake

 

[JakeCy]

Hi Jake, welcome to the forum. The regrettable reputation is historic of course, since Cytronex featured strongly here from the 2008 beginnings, but the brand has largely been absent here in recent years.

So an opportunity now for a fresh start.

I appreciate that outlook. I know your contributions on here related to Cytronex date back a long time too and am aware that some of the negativity towards us came about in those earlier days.

As I said in my first post, a lot of people love Cytronex and it fits their needs. We're not for everyone and it is a shame that our presense here historically has left a bad "odour" in this community.

For future reference, if more posts related to technical problems and they've not heard back or need a few pointers, please ask them to PM me and I'll hop on it.

Thanks
Jake

 

[saneagle]

Hi Saneagle

I have been here for just over 5 years now and have been to some of our trade shows. It is true, there will always be odd questions, not that I think that is one. At our trade shows, I was always on the test track and not at the stand itself so sorry to hear that was your experience previously. I enjoy chatting to people about what we do and the test track was a great place for that.

What other stands had you been part of, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks
Jake

I'll give you Oxygen.

 

[JakeCy]

Welcome Jake.



Does it mean you manufacture controllers, battery cells and assemble batteries in UK?

Hi Az

The individal cells we do not manufacture but we do make the battery packs here in WInchester. The sub-assmeblies inside (PCMs) are outsourced to a manufacturer on the south coast who also manufacture our bottle boards.

In house we do all the wheelbuilding, battery pack manfacture, potting all the sensor, riveting and assembling the bottle holders and produce all the cabling to size for each customer order. We're hoping to expand our production capabilities in the near future.

 

[sjpt]

Cytronex is not the right kit for us for various reasons, but we've used the shop a few times for other things and found the staff polite and helpful.

 

[saneagle]

Hi Az

The individal cells we do not manufacture but we do make the battery packs here in WInchester. The sub-assmeblies inside (PCMs) are outsourced to a manufacturer on the south coast who also manufacture our bottle boards.

In house we do all the wheelbuilding, battery pack manfacture, potting all the sensor, riveting and assembling the bottle holders and produce all the cabling to size for each customer order. We're hoping to expand our production capabilities in the near future.

You need to make your product appealing to more users. By all means keep a low-power, low range option available for the very small number of people that might want a light-weight solution, but you need higher power and bigger battery options for those that just want an easy to fit and reliable kit to fit to their commuter bikes. The market is wide open for anybody that can come up with an easy to fit kit with rear motor (or any other clever idea that actually works) a battery with 400+wh, and runs with 48v at 15A.

The things that make easy fitting hard on most kits are:

• Bottom bracket removal - you solved that.
• Batteries can be hard to fit. Fixings don't line up. Disc brakes interfere with rack fixings. Frame space.
• Different arrangements for gears

Solve those issues and leave a secret (leaked) backdoor to make adjustments and people will be happy to support a UK company with good customer support at a not extortionate price. At the moment, my impression of Cytronex and your system is snobby and expensive. I'm going to guess that founders were involved in road bike cycling of some sort and that's where they aimed their product. if you want to stay in that market, you need something special.

 

[guerney]

Solve those issues and leave a secret (leaked) backdoor to make adjustments

Totally agree. This is where they nearly all screw up - I hate to mention Toseven, but their offerings would likely be flying off the shelves if they released a firmware configuration tool, which provided adjustment of enough parameters.

Buying anything which requires a phone app is plain stupid - if the app doesn't keep up with OS developments, your fancy ebike becomes a dodo. I now avoid any product which requires an app to expand or enable function, take for example my Line6 Amplifi TT guitar effects box - the app hasn't been updated in years and it's only a matter of time before it's pulled from app stores. It's the only reason I still own a Android Kitkat device, which incidentally doesn't connect to much of the internet anymore. Apps also give too much control to manufacturers, as they can kill your hardware remotely, forcing you to upgrade:

Smart speaker maker Sonos takes heat for deliberately bricking older kit with 'Trade Up' plan

Infuriates customers by making useable systems into electronic waste

Smart speaker maker Sonos takes heat for deliberately bricking older kit with 'Trade Up' plan

Infuriates customers by making useable systems into electronic waste

www.theregister.com

Bluetooth jammers take on a whole new worrying dimension, when apps control ebikes. Usually used to disrupt comms between headphones and phones of annoying passengers on public transport.

 

[saneagle]

Totally agree. This is where they nearly all screw up - I hate to mention Toseven, but their offerings would likely be flying off the shelves if they released a firmware configuration tool, which provided adjustment of enough parameters.

Buying anything which requires a phone app is plain stupid - if the app doesn't keep up with OS developments, your fancy ebike becomes a dodo. I now avoid any product which requires an app to expand or enable function, take for example my Line6 Amplifi TT guitar effects box - the app hasn't been updated in years and it's only a matter of time before it's pulled from app stores. It's the only reason I still own a Android Kitkat device, which incidentally doesn't connect to much of the internet anymore. Apps also give too much control to manufacturers, as they can kill your hardware remotely, forcing you to upgrade:

Smart speaker maker Sonos takes heat for deliberately bricking older kit with 'Trade Up' plan

Infuriates customers by making useable systems into electronic waste

Smart speaker maker Sonos takes heat for deliberately bricking older kit with 'Trade Up' plan

Infuriates customers by making useable systems into electronic waste

www.theregister.com

Bluetooth jammers take on a whole new worrying dimension, when apps control ebikes. Usually used to disrupt comms between headphones and phones of annoying passengers on public transport.

I've got a lot of Line 6 stuff: Variax, original Pod, Pod XT, Pod Pro. I've also got an Ibanez Gold 1 for sale if you want to buy it. They only made 5, and three are in museums. This is mine. I don't know how it got on that website - must have been copied from the Jemsite:

 

[guerney]

I've got a lot of Line 6 stuff: Variax, original Pod, Pod XT, Pod Pro. I've also got an Ibanez Gold 1 for sale if you want to buy it. They only made 5, and three are in museums. This is mine. I don't know how it got on that website - must have been copied from the Jemsite:

There's that gorgeous gold guitar again! I would buy it if I could, not to play of course (I'm more of a keyboard player with electric guitarist pretensions, recent ones, as I've always played acoustic previously, but now have a Yamaha Pacifica and will play it without invitation or apology whether anyone wants to hear the sounds of my eletrocuting the nuts of an abnormally loud yamaguchi being driven mad with torture or not) but as an investment piece - did you manage to sell your many other guitars before the move? I'd assume it's value will only increase, being one of only five? I suppose ebay is the place to sell something like that? Maybe one way to avoid the whole buyer "It wasn't delivered" scam for higher value items like this, is to deliver locally (or further out, charging appropriately) and filming yourself delivering it to the seller's address, and unpacking the item and handing it to the buyer? Sellers complain about ebay a lot, it really is a much nicer place for buyers... Personally I'd probably consider doing a bit of pre-marketing by setting a crazy high buy now price - allow people to find it in their searches for a few days, then delete the listing, do the same the following week for a few weeks, then set a realistic reserve and auction it. There are probably better auctions which will present this to the right people.

 

[saneagle]

There's that gorgeous gold guitar again! I would buy it if I could, not to play of course (I'm more of a keyboard player with electric guitarist pretensions, recent ones, as I've always played acoustic previously, but now have a Yamaha Pacifica and will play it without invitation or apology whether anyone wants to hear the sounds of my eletrocuting the nuts of an abnormally loud yamaguchi being driven mad with torture or not) but as an investment piece - did you manage to sell your many other guitars before the move? I'd assume it's value will only increase, being one of only five? I suppose ebay is the place to sell something like that? Maybe one way to avoid the whole buyer "It wasn't delivered" scam for higher value items like this, is to deliver locally (or further out, charging appropriately) and filming yourself delivering it to the seller's address, and unpacking the item and handing it to the buyer? Sellers complain about ebay a lot, it really is a much nicer place for buyers... Personally I'd probably consider doing a bit of pre-marketing by setting a crazy high buy now price - allow people to find it in their searches for a few days, then delete the listing, do the same the following week for a few weeks, then set a realistic reserve and auction it. There are probably better auctions which will present this to the right people.

I haven't sold any yet, though I gave a couple away to good causes.

 

[guerney]

I've got a lot of Line 6 stuff: Variax, original Pod, Pod XT, Pod Pro. I've also got an Ibanez Gold 1 for sale if you want to buy it. They only made 5, and three are in museums. This is mine. I don't know how it got on that website - must have been copied from the Jemsite:

@soundwave needs to buy that with one of his many gold bars