On walk mode how comes you need to hold down the button whilst trying to walk with bike. just seems a bit silly and awkward, why cant you just click the walk mode button then take finger off then walk, why do you have to hold button all the time. it would make it much easier if you didnt have to hold down button. or am I wrong on this
a question on walk mode
- Thread starter billyboya
- Start date
I dont quite understand, what you mean, as surely if you fell over walking with the bike, the bike would also fall down with you, how can a bike go 6kmh unaided or held up. just seems annoying to have to keep finger on button whilst walking beside it. also how often is walk assist used anyway, only say if you had a puncture,
If the bike was perfectly balanced after you had let it go because you fell over, it could continue for a distance on walk assist until it fell over, if power continued after you had let go of the button. A bike travelling on could be inconvenient for someone else. I reckon it's for safety, but could be wrong.
Well I wont have thought a bike could travel on its own without you holding it up. its no big deal really was just curious about walk assist. as like i said only time its needed is when say you got a puncture and had to walk home with bike.
This remind me of the traditional idea of the 'Dead Mans Handle' fitted to trains etc. I think lawnmowers since the 80's has to have similar setup that cuts of engine although some people have a loop of wire to tie them back.
Back to the bike, think of someone getting their fingers caught in the spokes.
Incidently my daughters Pendleton initially had a nasty habit of throwing off the chain. I went to put back the chain once without turning off the bike and as I was looping the chain on the motor started up. ouch!
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Back to the bike, think of someone getting their fingers caught in the spokes.
Incidently my daughters Pendleton initially had a nasty habit of throwing off the chain. I went to put back the chain once without turning off the bike and as I was looping the chain on the motor started up. ouch!
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I've only ever used it once, to walk my bike up a hill which was literally at a 45 degree angle. Couldn't ride it up, bike tipped up backwards when I tried, but the motor was capable.
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I've used walk assist many times, usually up hills or over rough ground. It's also very useful for pushing a bike up the ridged groove found at the side of some flights of steps where it would be impossible to mount the bike to cycle. Great for steep hill starts too!
In other words, one foot beyond the point you let go, the bike would topple over and fall.
Even if it was perfectly balanced by nasa experts.
However, if you took a bike and it was not perfectly balanced by nasa engineers, and ran through the same scenario, the bike would still fall over.
That is close to the answer, the origin of Walk Assist on pedelecs was before there was anything permitting it in EAPC law, but there was a law permitting pedestrian controlled vehicles. These usually took the form of powered four wheel barrow or small van with a motor switched by a tension switched handle. Pick up the handle and walk off and the barrow would then faithfully follow you along at walking pace. They were commonly used at railway stations for luggage or bulk mail.
Up to 400 kilos in weight no driving licence class applies, but beyond that there is a driving licence group and driving test to ensure safety. Our law for those dates from 1963, well before e-pedelec law and there is similar elsewhere. I believe Swiss company BikeTec who make the Flyer pedelec brand were the first to take advantange of this by adding walk assist to their Panasonic powered models in 2002. Of course to use this law on EAPCs the motor power had to be controlled at all times by tension from the person walking with the bike, automatically cutting power if released.
Since then and much more recently Start Assist has been permitted, hence the confusion of why the handle originally had to be switched when walking.
To complete this information, when a bicycle is propelled by its rider walking alongside and not scooting it on a pedal, a test case** has ruled that the bicycle is then luggage, so no pedelec or motor vehicle law regarding having the EAPC with you can apply then.
**Waller L J in the Court of Appeal, (Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441).
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In our Kalkhoff manual [circa 2016/17 vintage] reference is made to this feature under their term "Push assist".
In the warning clause about its use are words stating it is not designed for use with a person mounted on the bike.
Is this just some legal get around or is it likely to have some real technical negative issues if it is used when I am on it?
It's something I never have done but feel there might be cases where doing so could be useful.
Used as intended, pushing the bike whilst walking along side it, I have found it quite a good feature to have.
I have not found its "held" to use control a challenge, it stopping if let go very convenient in cases where wheeling the bike in busy pedestrianised congested areas, slowing or stopping can be vital.
In the warning clause about its use are words stating it is not designed for use with a person mounted on the bike.
Is this just some legal get around or is it likely to have some real technical negative issues if it is used when I am on it?
It's something I never have done but feel there might be cases where doing so could be useful.
Used as intended, pushing the bike whilst walking along side it, I have found it quite a good feature to have.
I have not found its "held" to use control a challenge, it stopping if let go very convenient in cases where wheeling the bike in busy pedestrianised congested areas, slowing or stopping can be vital.
My post just above yours explains, the walk assist origin was the bike used as a pedestrian controlled vehicle, and to be a pedestrian meant walking only, since even scooting a bike with a foot on one pedal is legally riding it.
There is nothing in the EAPC exemption from being a motor vehicle that permits a throttle used while not pedalling the machine:
Exemption (h): pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h.
Thank you "flecc", yes I had understood your post and it was that which seeded my exploring if the Kalkhoff warning statement was just a legal motivated one, rather than how I had assumed up till reading, a more technical reason.
Following reading your statement, the penny rather drops that all they are concerned about is the legal implication, possibly how illegal misuse might impact on them.
As an engineer I do find it questionable that there might be technical concerns the only one being use this way would involve powering a static and a potentially stalled motor, whereas in normal use powering only occurs when we are moving the cranks.
I am leaning now much more to the view the reason lay solely in the legality issue?
Following reading your statement, the penny rather drops that all they are concerned about is the legal implication, possibly how illegal misuse might impact on them.
As an engineer I do find it questionable that there might be technical concerns the only one being use this way would involve powering a static and a potentially stalled motor, whereas in normal use powering only occurs when we are moving the cranks.
I am leaning now much more to the view the reason lay solely in the legality issue?
I agree, calling it Push Assist protects them.
However, calling it Start assist as is common now should cause no problem if the pedals are turned by the feet, even with so called Ghost pedalling. There is still some rider input as Newton's first law of motion is in play since the pedals have changed from stationary to rotation and any input satisfies the Exemption and Newton.
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I have walk assist on my Haibike Yamaha. It requires you to push and hold down a button to get the motor assist. The speed on my bike is so slow as to be not worth the effort.
My two old rear hub Oxygen Emate City bikes both have unrestricted throttles. These are very useful as you can adjust the assistance to closely match your walking pace.
Although the throttles on my Oxygen bikes were fitted from new and are legal, I worry a bit that with many more electric bikes in use and generally more knowledge about them seeping into the general population, I could see a situation where I could be stopped and challenged in respect of the throttle and hope that my explanation of how they are legal as that is how they were sold will be accepted and understood.
My two old rear hub Oxygen Emate City bikes both have unrestricted throttles. These are very useful as you can adjust the assistance to closely match your walking pace.
Although the throttles on my Oxygen bikes were fitted from new and are legal, I worry a bit that with many more electric bikes in use and generally more knowledge about them seeping into the general population, I could see a situation where I could be stopped and challenged in respect of the throttle and hope that my explanation of how they are legal as that is how they were sold will be accepted and understood.
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Don't worry, print out the following guidance on "Grandfather Rights" for EAPCs prior to January 2016, given by gov.uk with the link it is from and carry a copy on each bike, showing it to anyone authorised to challenge you:
Power assistance - “Twist and Go”
Because of the particular benefits for elderly and disabled users, pedal cycles providing electrical assistance without use of the pedals - usually called “Twist and Goes” - are included in the above GB classification provided they are capable of pedal operation and comply with the above restrictions on maximum motor power and assistance cut-off speed.
However, under European law new “Twist and Go” vehicles will, from January 2016, have to meet a range of technical requirements before they can be used on roads.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs-in-great-britain-information-sheet#power-assistance---twist-and-go
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I use the walk button on my trike and don’t find it a big deal having to hold it down when pushing the trike as unlike a bike you have to stand away from it to avoid the rear wheel and have the left on the handlebar and button and right hand on the seat.
if the button was a latching switch and I fell over with my balance issues, hence the trike, that would be a disaster and I could end up running myself over and seeing the trike carrear of down the road be it at only 4 mph.
if the button was a latching switch and I fell over with my balance issues, hence the trike, that would be a disaster and I could end up running myself over and seeing the trike carrear of down the road be it at only 4 mph.
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