A Good Hill Climber?

[PowaDredd]

Hi,

I have decided that an electric cycle is just the thing I need.

But unsure as to which model/make to purchase.

I want something with good hill climbing capability as I live in Sheffield and I live at the top of a very steep hill.

Could anyone reccomend a make or model?

Thanks
Rich

 

[flecc]

The best for very steep hills is a model with a motor that drives through the chain and gears.

The Kalhoff Agutta and Gazelle Easy Glider are the main two currently in the UK, both using the well tried Panasonic motor unit. The Kalkhoff is the lower priced and also the more powerful of the two.

I'm not sure who is handling the Gazelle here at the moment, but the Kalkhoff is handled by 50cycles.

Some hub motor bikes can climb quite well, but I'd advise a test ride first to see if they'd be up to your hill. Powabykes are strong in this respect, and the link is to a dealer locator.
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[PowaDredd]

So a cycle with a motor which works on the gears and chain is the way to go. Quite like the look of both of the bikes you mentioned Flecc. I also prefere the rear drive of these two bikes.


Anyone have experience with either the Gazelle or the Kalhoff? and what sort of gradiants have you & the bike tackled?

Thanks

 

[flecc]

I'm still waiting to try the Kalkhoff, but owned a Lafree Twist with this Panasonic motor system for well over four years. There's effectively not much limit on the steepness that can be climbed, since there's such a good range of low gears with 7 or 8 speed hub gears. It's just a matter of changing down enough to cope with a hill, and since the Kalkhoff has a higher power mode, it should be very competent. My Lafree didn't have the benefit of a high power mode, but I live in a very hilly area and pulled very heavy trailer loads with it as you can see here where it's parked on a 14% slope:

The most I climbed solo on the Lafree was 20% (1 in 5) and that meant a big input from me, but the higher power motor would make it easier of course. However I routinely climbed the 14% (1 in 7) up to my home, both solo and regularly with the empty trailer after doing a rubbish/recycling run.
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[Sector]

I think the drive-through-the-chain bikes that are being discussed here are all exclusively pedelec. No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong.

Unfortunately I can't claim any experience with that type of bike. However, with the two types of EZEE bike that I have ridden for some distance I cannot get used to pedelec mode. I use throttle control exclusively. It is important to me to have good electrically derived torque delivered to the wheel instantly when I want it, particularly in traffic, and even if I am in the wrong gear.

My judgement is no doubt coloured by the fact that there aren't many steep hills near me, and I don't mind getting off and walking up a short sharp incline from time to time. It seems to be a better form of exercise, and might preserve me from the dreaded LiIon cutouts for a little longer.

 

[PowaDredd]

Good point Sector.

Is the Kalhoff Agutta purely pedelec?

 

[Sector]

I believe so. The 50Cycles web page calls it "Triple mode pedelec". Perhaps someone else could comment on whether this type of bike is inherently pedelec.

The pedals would need their own freewheel to allow motor power to be used without the pedals being turned.

 

[flecc]

Yes, the Panasonic motor system is only pedelec, but it's a pedelec that works properly, and in my experience the only one that does. If you can ride an ordinary bike in the conditions Sector mentions, you can also ride this just as effectively.

The pedelec system that Sector mentions isn't a patch on it, and I don't use it on either of my eZee bikes, using throttle only on those.

An indication of how misleading this subject can be is the fact that the Panasonic motor system does have a freewheel on the chainwheel that Sector mentions but for entirely different reasons.

I'd be happy to recommend trying the most powerful eZee models, the F series, on your steep hill as they might manage it, but it's a sad fact that the Li-ion battery will let you down sooner rather than later on that sort of hill climbing. With the NiMh battery that wouldn't happen, but they're not normally supplied with that and their NiMh aren't obtainable most of the time anyway.

Hence my recommending as I've done, being confident that bike will do the job. However, if it's throttle control you want, and I prefer that too, it will have to be a hub motor. Whether a hub motor bike will cope with your hill's steepness can only be proved by you trying it on that or an equivalent hill. If you have a local Powabyke dealer you might be able to do that, hence my other recommendation.
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[PowaDredd]

I think the Kalkhoff will be the bike for me. If it can also carry plenty of weight, I can also use the cycle for camping trips and doing local shopping aswell as commuting to work.

Might wait to see if a diamond frame will be released herenext year. This type of frame offers slightly more strength. I'm getting really excited now and can't wait to place my order.

 

[flecc]

The diamond frame version is definitely going to come here in the Spring, but exactly when I don't know.
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[Tiberius]

I'd be happy to recommend trying the most powerful eZee models, the F series, on your steep hill as they might manage it, but it's a sad fact that the Li-ion battery will let you down sooner rather than later on that sort of hill climbing. With the NiMh battery that wouldn't happen, but they're not normally supplied with that and their NiMh aren't obtainable most of the time anyway.
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I'll confirm that. Provided you can provide some reasonable pedal effort as well. On the eZee Torq, I can happily go up 12% hills. Without effort from the me its about 6% limit. The F series I think are a little lower geared so will climb better but at the expense of speed on the flat.

Until the battery cuts out, of course.

Nick

 

[coops]

On the eZee Torq, I can happily go up 12% hills. Without effort from the me its about 6% limit. The F series I think are a little lower geared so will climb better but at the expense of speed on the flat.

Just for clarity of information , if I'm not mistaken, the F-series motors are very similarly geared to the Torq (even though in 26" wheels vs Torq's 28"), and their very similar speed all out on the flat, but better climbing, is largely due to their higher peak power output. Also, if I'm correct, the peak torque speed will also be similar to the Torq, so again gradients climbed at speeds below ~12mph will run the motor at lower efficiency and use more power.

Its admirable you can climb 12% hills on your Torq Nick: you must be either quite lightweight or putting in plenty of legpower! For the record, I suspect many 'Torqers' are limited to the suggested 10% slopes or less with motor assist, and for some of us not without struggle on those!! It does depend on the length of the gradient too, as might battery staying-power...

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Yes, the F series are also geared for up to 22 mph on the models which can be derestricted (now only the Forte), and the better hill climbing comes from roughly 104 extra gross motor watts over the Torq. That makes a big difference on hills.
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[PowaDredd]

How would you work out the gradient of a hill?

My biggest climb whilst commuting is about a 400 foot climb over 1 mile. But you can't really go anywhere in Sheffield without coming across a hill. I think the Kalkhoff will suit me better as I already cycle an non motorised bike and walk around 20 miles per week. This bike will cut down some of my travelling time by at least half.

 

[flecc]

Have a look at my post here

I use a 50 cm version of that device:

P.S. That climb of yours is 7.6% (1 in 13). The more powerful hub motor bikes will also make that very easy, but won't be so good on any very steep bits, and I know you have a few of those around Sheffield.

For the arithmetic on that climb of yours, divide the mile in feet (5280 ft) by the 400 ft to get 13.2, that's 1 in 13. For the percentage, divide 100 by the 13.2, and you get the 7.6%.
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