50 Mile round trip commute, feasible or not?

[Julie]

I realise you just stated that you definitely want to cycle, but I also echo the practicality of a 125cc motorbike over a bicycle. There's an industry scheme called 'Get On' which can be found at www.get on.co.uk which gives you a free trial on a motorbike or moped without having to spend any money. After that you would need to factor in the cost of the CBT, protective gear and motorbike to get you riding on L Plates. I'm happy to offer any motorbike advice you might want.

As for ebiking, I only have the short experience of two bikes. My longest ride to date on my KTM eLycan P (which has the Panasonic hub drive) was 36 miles with 22% battery remaining. It was a very hilly route indeed and I didn't try and eek out the battery. So if it was flat I'm sure I could have got 50 miles out of it. So if you find a bike with a good enough battery then I'm sure it could go the distance. But I've no idea how many miles motors last for before they wear out and you would have to be made of really tough stuff to stick it out in the depths of winter.

That milage is promising, the trip to work is really quite flat, with a few gentle inclines and no hills, I might have to resign myself to driving a car in the really bad bits of winter, if i were to get a motorbike I would get a Vespa Sprint, i used to have a Vespa T5 and loved it

 

[Kudoscycles]

My memory was that Carluccios restaurants have the Vespa scooter listed on their menus.
KudosDave

 

[Cyclezee]

Thanks for the suggestion, they seem like really good value bikes, i'd the moment i'm thinking a bike with a motor on the pedals might be more suitable, do you have any bikes with a mid motor?

Hi Julie,

We only sell bikes with front or rear hub motors, but we do have large capacity batteries that would do the return trip without having to recharge at work.

 

[whereswally606]

I do a 22 mile commute in my bike each way so about 44miles a day. I charge it at work so the battery only has to be good for 22 miles I would say that a battery for 50 miles straight would make the bike pretty heavy and not much fun to ride. Is there no option for charging at work?

 

[Julie]

I do a 22 mile commute in my bike each way so about 44miles a day. I charge it at work so the battery only has to be good for 22 miles I would say that a battery for 50 miles straight would make the bike pretty heavy and not much fun to ride. Is there no option for charging at work?

Thats good, sadly no option of charging it at work, i work in a massive factory and and they won't go out of there way to help employess

 

[Julie]

Hi Julie,

We only sell bikes with front or rear hub motors, but we do have large capacity batteries that would do the return trip without having to recharge at work.

The reason i'm thinking of getting a mid drive bike is not because of the motor (I have no idea which is best) but because of the familiarity of the components, for example:

Shimano XT gearing, i've been using this on my mountain bikes for at least ten years, i know it pretty much inside out and can adjust and replace as necessary

Hydraulic Disk Brakes, some have Shimano XT hydraulic disk brakes, which i have also used on my mountain bikes for many years, its super powerful, and very reliable,

Do any of the hub motor bikes have components such as these? I really like the idea of being able to do my own maintenance and repairs, its something i'm comfortable with and confident about ( I would not do any work on the motor though, i know nothing about those)

Another thing i like about the mid motor bikes is the wheels, if i damage the rim on one i'd just get another wheel, swap out the bits and i'd be back on the road, but if i were to damage a wheel that has a motor on it i don't know how easy it would be to put the motor and on a new wheel, or if the wheels are readily available at local shops.

Also, not having a quick release wheel on the hub motor bike could be quite inconvenient, I know its not hard taking of the wheel of a hub powered bike, just disconnect the cable and unscrew the nut, but if its 5 o clock in the morning, pitch black, pouring down with rain and i have to replace an inner tube, i think the simplicity of a quick release would be beneficial

For my use, the only benefit i can see of bikes with hub motors is price, but maybe i have overlooked other benefits?

I'm not criticising hub motor bikes, i'm sure their brakes and gears and wheels are good quality and are really durable, my preference for XT is based on my familiarity, i'm not saying it is a superior system

 

[JohnCade]

I suspect you may need a central motor to get the range you want. I haven't been around e bikes long myself but I'm not sure that many hub drive bikes will do that unless you turn the wick right down. In which case you'll be doing most of the work anyway and peddling a heavy bike. Others might suggest otherwise.

Running a Bosch or Impulse motor in eco or higher would give the range on the flat easily, and the bikes they are in tend to be higher end with better components which ride and roll better.

The sport types with the components you want might not have the bigger batteries though.... and the commuters with them tend to have hub gears like the Nexus 8 or similar. Marathon Plus tyres don't puncture often though.

Of the cheaper bikes the Woosh Sirocco CD might do the range taking it easy, and will go fast on the flat at the expense of range...

 

[Julie]

Thanks, one i have been looking at is the Cube Touring Hybrid Pro E-Bike, it has XT gears and XT hydraulic brakes,

It has "Bosch Drive Active Cruise Unit which provides 250 watts of power which is supplied by the 400 Watt Bosch Active Power "

I'm not sure how many miles that would do though, but might be an option with a spare battery?

 

[Jonah]

Thanks, one i have been looking at is the Cube Touring Hybrid Pro E-Bike, it has XT gears and XT hydraulic brakes,

It has "Bosch Drive Active Cruise Unit which provides 250 watts of power which is supplied by the 400 Watt Bosch Active Power "

I'm not sure how many miles that would do though, but might be an option with a spare battery?

50 miles might be possible with the 400wh Bosch battery if it's reasonably flat and you are reasonable light and fit (I believe all this is the case from earlier in the thread). It would be no problem for the Kalkhoff bikes with their 612wh batteries but most Kalkhoff bikes come with hub gears, apart from the Bosch powered Pro Connect B10 which has the same battery as the Cube. The bigger capacity battery on the Kalkhoff weighs only a few hundred grams more than the Bosch battery.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I suspect you may need a central motor to get the range you want. I haven't been around e bikes long myself but I'm not sure that many hub drive bikes will do that unless you turn the wick right down. In which case you'll be doing most of the work anyway and peddling a heavy bike. Others might suggest otherwise.

Running a Bosch or Impulse motor in eco or higher would give the range on the flat easily, and the bikes they are in tend to be higher end with better components which ride and roll better.

That's all a bit contraversial! Nobody has ever produced evidence that supports that argument. In fact, the only evidence I've seen points to the opposite.

Sure, you can go go a long way on a Bosch bike in eco mode, but you can go even further on a bike with no motor at all. You have a fixed amount of charge in your battery. You can use it up quickly and have an easy time or you can use it up slowly and pedal harder. It doesn't matter which type of bike or motor you have, it's the same.

If you want to go a long way, get a bigger battery, not a bike where you can turn down the power further.

 

[Julie]

I"ve actually just messaged 50cycles regarding a demo of the Kalkhoff Pro Connect , but they don't have any in stock in my size, but will be getting new stock in September.

I do like the sound of the Impulse 2 motor (if its as described on the website) , and that combined with derrailiers would be ideal combo, but i don't know if anyone makes such a bike

 

[Julie]

That's all a bit contraversial! Nobody has ever produced evidence that supports that argument. In fact, the only evidence I've seen points to the opposite.

Sure, you can go go a long way on a Bosch bike in eco mode, but you can go even further on a bike with no motor at all. You have a fixed amount of charge in your battery. You can use it up quickly and have an easy time or you can use it up slowly and pedal harder. It doesn't matter which type of bike or motor you have, it's the same.

If you want to go a long way, get a bigger battery, not a bike where you can turn down the power further.

Is two batteries an option? other than the upfront cost would there be any downsides?

 

[trex]

If I were in your place, I'd get my push bike fitted with an 18A 350W BBS01 (£349) and 15AH square bottle battery (£315). It's fast, climbs anything like a goat and keep the same balance like you have with the old bike and it's cheap too. If you can remove the bottom bracket, then you can fit the kit yourself. It's that easy. I have tested loads of kits, none of them is as good as the new BBS01.

 

[danielrlee]

Is two batteries an option? other than the upfront cost would there be any downsides?

Only downsides are weight and cost. If you can run them simultaneously (configured in parallel) to give twice the capacity, you'll see a *little* more than twice the range, less stress on the batteries leading to a longer life and maybe even another mph of speed due to reduced voltage sag. I regularly ride with 30Ah of battery and the best thing of all is no more range anxiety.

 

[Jonah]

I"ve actually just messaged 50cycles regarding a demo of the Kalkhoff Pro Connect , but they don't have any in stock in my size, but will be getting new stock in September.

I do like the sound of the Impulse 2 motor (if its as described on the website) , and that combined with derrailiers would be ideal combo, but i don't know if anyone makes such a bike

Kalkhoff do make an Impulse 2 Pro Connect Impulse 10 (with XT derailleur gears) but the 50Cycles stock sold out some while ago. It might be worth asking them about there future availability.

 

[Kenny]

Without the speed of an unrestricted bike, a 25 mile each way commute would be a killer.
The only bike I would even attempt it on would be an S-Class.
A to B recently tested a Kalkhoff Endeavour and covered 22.7 miles in 64 minutes finally running out of battery at 29.4 miles.
This was with the 612 Wh battery, so you can see that a powerful assist means a high power consumption.
The bike looks very normal, especially in step-through form so I doubt you'd attract any attention from the law, and you could recharge at work.

 

[JohnCade]

If I were in your place, I'd get my push bike fitted with an 18A 350W BBS01 (£349) and 15AH square bottle battery (£315). It's fast, climbs anything like a goat and keep the same balance like you have with the old bike and it's cheap too. If you can remove the bottom bracket, then you can fit the kit yourself. It's that easy. I have tested loads of kits, none of them is as good as the new BBS01.

I was going to suggest that but would it do the range? If it was changed to cut out at a more civilised 30kph it would cruise at that pretty well but would be using a lot of power too.
Bog standard settings using lower assist would do it for sure.

Is that 350W CD motor you wrote about going to be sold in a Woosh production bike?

d8veh.

I suppose the advantage for range of bikes like the Bosch motored ones is that they are torque sensor, and so you get out of it a multiple of what you put in. Therefore you have to work at it, and so the range goes up. But speed sensors tend to inevitably make you ease off and let the bike do the work, such is human nature, and that uses up more battery.

Not so much hub versus centre drive as torque sensor versus speed sensor perhaps. A lot of the higher end commuting bikes are TS with centre drive of course.

 

[D8ve]

Ya canna fool the laws of physics.
Climbing hills takes energy.
D8veh may have the best hill climbing hub bikes but that will eat battery life.
Crank drives are efficient in power use. I was able to get 40 miles out of a Panasonic 260 watt hour system.
The power draw from all the motors vary. No power above 17 mph because it's your sweat driving the bike.
Up hill the draw can be over 20amps. With 36 volts that makes 720 watts. The same as a top cyclist.
However Julie is talking a flat ride. 250 watts is a good output for a cyclist.
If Julie puts out 150watts and the motor gives 75 percent. (Low power) A hundred watts. then the bike will do an easy 15.5 mph on the flat. Covering the 25 miles in under two hours.
And back for roughly four hours use. Circa 400 watt hours.
Within the 36*12 =430 watt hours of the modern battery. As fitted to most quality bikes and even some cheap ones.
Julie will need to confirm the bike will ride well without power.

 

[trex]

I was going to suggest that but would it do the range? If it was changed to cut out at a more civilised 30kph it would cruise at that pretty well but would be using a lot of power too.
Bog standard settings using lower assist would do it for sure.

Is that 350W CD motor you wrote about going to be sold in a Woosh production bike?
.

it's a question of how much Julie wants to cycle and how fast she wants to go. The test bike ran at 26mph - so it's plenty fast, but I don't know the power consumption at that speed. I don't know if Woosh are going to use this motor, probably not, too powerful I think. Shame, the 8Fun is so good, no gear crunch.

 

[halfer]

Ha ha, from the BBS01 page on the Woosh website:

Errors & ommissions exempt