48v battery through a 36v controller..?

stevelo333

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 16, 2019
13
3
Today I took my modified Gtech (removed controller and battery, replaced them with a 48v battery and controller to power the original Bafang 250w motor) on it's first outing, and was very impressed with it's 25 mile range, given the punishment I gave it, until another member suggested it might not be all that great after all (hi vfr, and thanks again for the reply).

I'd previously used this 48v battery to power another 250w hub motor through a 36v controller. I can be a bit rash at times, and was half expecting it to burn out or worse, so only gradually increased throttle time and distance, and was constantly checking the heat of both it and the battery until over time I felt reasonably sure it could take it, and feel it may even be entirely designed to take the output from a 48v battery (hard to tell given a) my state of ignorance and b) from the sparse info with and on Chinese controllers from eBay). Neither even got what you could call warm, let alone hot. Today's jaunt made both the battery and the 48v controller lukewarm to the touch.

So my first question is - was I imagining things, or can it be expected that some controllers are designed to take higher voltages, or perhaps can detect voltages and respond accordingly by limiting the input voltage regardless of source?

Which leads to my second question - if I wasn't imagining things, and the 36v controller I was using was only drawing 36v (I know - I know nothing!) and thus was indeed perfectly safe to use in that way, and yet the performance (speed, on the flat and up the hills near me) was exactly the same (or as far as I can tell), does that mean I'd get greater range from using the 36v controller in the same set up as I'm now using the 48v controller?

Please have patience with me! I started visiting this forum to learn about these things, and I certainly have, though the biggest thing i have learned is that there's even more to learn than I ever imagined!
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
Some 36v controllers can run with 48v. There's no point in being gentle. the smoking happens or not when you only connect the battery. After that, the faster you run the motor, the better it is for everything.

Some controllers are dual voltage and can switch over automatically. Others are fixed. If you have a fixed 36v controller, it won't cut off when the battery is flat, which can damage the battery. Also, any battery level indicators will show the battery as always full, so you won't know when it's empty until too late. that's not a problem if you never ride far enough to flatten the battery.

Not many fixed 36v controllers can run with 48v. You might be lucky or you might be right on the edge of it smoking at any time. To be sure, you have to open it and check the voltage rating of the main capacitor. If it's 50v it'll smoke soon. 60V or more will be OK.
 

stevelo333

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 16, 2019
13
3
Thanks again, extremely informative, and right on the money. I've run it a lot with no apparent issues at the time, but as you say, the battery indicator on the 36v throttle always said full - but then when I connected it to the 48v throttle, it immediately said it was empty. So I've been lucky - I may have damaged the battery a bit, but not too badly it seems after the range I got from it today - not great, but comparable or better, proportionally, than the 5.6Ah Gtech battery, and I ran it at full throttle for at least 6 miles, probably more. I had thought I could rely on the BMS to take care of any issues. It's a learning curve, and I'll be asking questions here before doing anything else potentially rash.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
20,981
8,565
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West Sx RH
Buy a simple £2/£3 led meter and fit it where you can read it, wire it in between the battery and controller to see the battery voltage. Much cheaper then buying a new battery.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,993
Basildon
BMSs do have a cut-off, but it's set lower than the controller; however, it never worked at all on quite a few batteries that I've tested, so I would never rely on it.
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,007
3,241
Telford
It should be OK. Some controllers auto-detect voltage, in which case you must make sure that the battery voltage is unambiguous when you connect it because the controller can't see the difference between a low 48v battery and a full 36v one. Other controllers have an LCD setting for the voltage.

Also, it's possible to have a dual voltage controller with a single voltage LCD. Normally, the LCD' s voltage is written on the back.
 

manman94

Pedelecer
Dec 7, 2023
158
2
60
Netherlands
Saneagle wow thanks for the speedy reply yes I have a lcd display with options to change battery voltage ,so now in using the 48v 21ah battery and have set 48v in the display.
My display is s866 with 36v/48v Dual controler they came as package.
Thanks once again for information makes me feel a lot easier now .
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,007
3,241
Telford
Saneagle wow thanks for the speedy reply yes I have a lcd display with options to change battery voltage ,so now in using the 48v 21ah battery and have set 48v in the display.
My display is s866 with 36v/48v Dual controler they came as package.
Thanks once again for information makes me feel a lot easier now .
48v is so much better than 36v. You're going to love it. If the extra power makes the ride a bit jerky, you can improve it a lot by changing your speed control controller for a current control one, like KT. You'd have to buy a new LCD to go with it, so about £80 total.
 
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manman94

Pedelecer
Dec 7, 2023
158
2
60
Netherlands
Wow that sounds interesting if you have a link or site I check would be much appreciated,but for now I'll test the 36/48v dual controler I've already set 48v on the display in settings so I'm hopefully good to go hopefully the 250w 36v motor rear hub will be ok .
Thanks in advance
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,007
3,241
Telford
Wow that sounds interesting if you have a link or site I check would be much appreciated,but for now I'll test the 36/48v dual controler I've already set 48v on the display in settings so I'm hopefully good to go hopefully the 250w 36v motor rear hub will be ok .
Thanks in advance
Try the controller you've got first. It might be OK for you.

This is what I recommend if it's too jerky:

You must choose an LCD to go with it (not LCD1). You can also get them with 17A, 20A and 22A if you need more power, but the 20A and 22A ones are a bit bigger. You can judge whether you have enough power from your present one after you go up to 48v.
 

manman94

Pedelecer
Dec 7, 2023
158
2
60
Netherlands
Will do thank you so much kind sir for your help and for the link .I'll be sure to keep you updated.
Kind regards from the Netherlands
 

manman94

Pedelecer
Dec 7, 2023
158
2
60
Netherlands
Hi I checked this controller that was recommended but I don't see any light cables I do see 1 brake cable not sure if the photo of the wiring is complete,but do you know if this 36/48v 15a KT controller has two brake connectors and two light connectors.any info would be appreciated.
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,007
3,241
Telford
You should never use the lights connector on a controller. Always wire lights direct yo the battery instead.

Brake connectors are for a simple on/off switch. If you have two connectors, they joined to the same pads on the pcb. It makes no difference how many connectors you have, you can wire one, two, three or as many switches as you want to one connector.
 

manman94

Pedelecer
Dec 7, 2023
158
2
60
Netherlands
Not sure you understand what I mean so I'll try again sorry it's my English.
Ok I have two cables that come out of the controller each connector has two wires in my case they are red and white ,I have the same cables coming from my bike.
For my hydraulic brakes front and back the controller also has two cables coming out with connectors each cable has two wires yellow and brown,these are the same that come from my bike .so that's why I ask does controller already have the cable options to plug and play with lights and brakes like on the controller I just bought.
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
7,007
3,241
Telford
You see two for brakes front and back and two for lights fron and back ,this what I'm hoping the KT controller will have info much appreciated.
It makes no difference how many connectors there are. Any controller has what you need for brakes and lights. Whenever you get a new controller, you have to adjust some wires and connectors so that everything works.
 

thelarkbox

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2023
1,252
385
oxon
Some KT controllers will come with light cables, and the ads will have 'with lights' as an option in many cases.the problem is that the transistor used to switch these light circuits on and off is not rated very highly and many lighting options will draw significantly more power than the switching transistor can handle thus blowing it and possibly rendering the whole controller useless in need of repair.

hence the general advise to wire in a separate physical switch and fuse running from the battery to power lights
 

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