45 Mile Commute, possible on a eBike?

[Nealh]

With so many variables involved you can't precisely give an exact figure of how long the journey and how much battery will be used. 36v systems are the norm though KTM I think use 47v, all bikes are restricted though some can be unrestricted one way or another. A home built bike with Chinese parts can be built to match your requirements. Terrain, conditions, fitness, traffic and even tyre pressures will be important for rolling as well as the bike system. The op needs to ride a few drive types. Depending on his work if he is tired after then a pas hub drive will be more relaxing and forgiving, if he has still got plenty of energy left then a crank/pas drive or a torque sensor crank drive would be an option.
All quoted figures are open to question as the variables aren't always known. I'm 53 suffer from Asthma, 82.5kg and relatively fit. On a 700c Boardman CX/MX with 250w Oxydrive kit I ran a quickish errand before having to go to work 32.9 miles, Elevation 1860 ft,1.54hrs moving time at an average 17.3mph with max 38.9 mph.Battery was 11ah 36v Samsung celled, I upped the assist level to run quicker. Route to destination mainly down hill and return up hill.The main variable there was I hadn't done a long day at work or been fatigued after a day at work and the weather was dry warm and bright.

 

[anotherkiwi]

There was a "race" across Madrid on that Spanish news I watch the other day, car vs bus vs bike (unpowered). The bike won hands down by several minutes of course. Including 43 seconds for parking at destination instead of 3 minutes for the car by the time he found a spot.

I really hate it when people come on here making statements about their range, but don't mention their atypical circumstances. It's very misleading to those that need information to make their choices.

Which is why I like to post the route profile from Google maps. My atypical circumstance is that I am reasonably fit with strong legs and could ride an un-powered bike on flatter terrain but effort asthma stops me from climbing most of the hills around here. So 70 km from a 370 Wh battery or 8.5 Wh/mile if you must.

don't forget the impact of voltage sag when choosing a bike for long distance commuting. You will of course be interested in high speed capability of the bike to save time but be careful when choosing the combination of battery and motor. Voltage sag can make the bike unpleasant to ride when you have less than 30% left in the tank.

Voltage sag is my number one enemy. I regret not saving up enough money initially to buy a 15 Ah battery with quality cells so that with a 15 Amp controller I would draw no more than 1C. Salesmen will tell you their battery is capable of 2C, take that with a grain of salt.

 

[EddiePJ]

If you look at Cubes they all have Bosch motors, look for Bosch CX type motors with a 500 battery (you cant really buy a higher range battery), so this is the best combo you can get in terms of power and range.

I'm afraid that I don't agree with that. From my experience of running two Bosch powered bikes, one with a CX and one that up until a recent upgrade ran a Performance Line motor. The Performance line gave greater range using a 500wh battery than the CX gave using a 500wh battery.
In my opinion the CX motor makes for a better off road motor than an on road motor, but even then I'm not totally convinced.
I have probably put close to 9,000 miles in on Bosch powered bikes, and I do sometimes wonder that if I were to just jump on a bike without knowing which motor was fitted, whether I could actually even tell the difference between motor system. I suspect not, and think that we just play into the hands of the journalist and media hype.
I personally like the feel of the Active Line motor for road use, but have found it wanting a few times, but that I suspect was more a reflection of the bikes gearing than the motor.

There are two reasons that I wouldn't want to be using a Bosch powered bike for this lengthy journey day in day out. Firstly is the battery life and wear. Bosch batteries are far from cheap, and given the amount of charge cycles that you would be doing, to my mind a decent quality kit makes more viable sense.
My second concern is with the small front drive sprocket. With only getting about 500 miles from a front sprocket, I know that my riding is harsh in respect of both sprocket wear and tear and also chain wear and tear, but I'd still bet that a conventional size sprocket would last considerably longer.

I really hate it when people come on here making statements about their range, but don't mention their atypical circumstances. It's very misleading to those that need information to make their choices.

Which is why I like to post the route profile from Google maps.

And is the reason that I put any route of significance or to be used for reference purposes onto Strava. It's not perfect, but it is a good indicator.

Another element that hasn't been mentioned within this thread or the thread started by D8veh about effeciency, is that invariably when people state a bikes maximum range, the mileage figure might have taken place over a series of rides when the rider was refreshed at the start of each one.
Projected mileage is also meaningless.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I
And is the reason that I put any route of significance or to be used for reference purposes onto Strava. It's not perfect, but it is a good indicator.

Over the last couple of years, I've seen very little meaningful data about power consumption and things like that on this forum from members. You're one of the very few exceptions.

Unfortunately too many people want to boast about how great their bike is and how great they are for choosing the perfect bike instead of helping people to make informed choices.

 

[chris_n]

As the OP hasn't given us any details of elevation change or gradient most of this discussion is meaningless. He is going to lose his licence, is not a stranger to cycling and actually only need a range of 22.5 miles.
Any decent ebike with fast rolling tyres and a decent battery capacity will do that in @1.5 hours if not too hilly and still be legal.
If he wants to take a risk and crank the speed up he may knock 15 mins off that but not a lot more. All we need to know now is how hilly and then advice can be given on hub v crank.
Then of course there is the discussion about all weather riding and how much that is likely to take out of him and the bike, maintenance is going to be another issue.
No I don't think my bike would be suitable for this, I would go for something a lot lighter than a Haibike without suspension but with fast high volume tyres to take the sting out of the road and maybe a suntour ncx seatpost.

 

[Danidl]

I'm afraid that I don't agree with that. From my experience of running two Bosch powered bikes, one with a CX and one that up until a recent upgrade ran a Performance Line motor. The Performance line gave greater range using a 500wh battery than the CX gave using a 500wh battery.
In my opinion the CX motor makes for a better off road motor than an on road motor, but even then I'm not totally convinced.
I have probably put close to 10,000 miles in on Bosch powered bikes, and I do sometimes wonder that if I were to just jump on a bike without knowing which motor was fitted, whether I could actually even tell the difference between motor system. I suspect not, and think that we just play into the hands of the journalist and media hype.
I personally like the feel of the Active Line motor for road use, but have found it wanting a few times, but that I suspect was more a reflection of the bikes gearing than the motor.

There are two reasons that I wouldn't want to be using a Bosch powered bike for this lengthy journey day in day out. Firstly is the battery life and wear. Bosch batteries are far from cheap, and given the amount of charge cycles that you would be doing, to my mind a decent quality kit makes more viable sense.
My second concern is with the small front drive sprocket. With only getting about 500 miles from a front sprocket, I know that my riding is harsh in respect of both sprocket wear and tear and also chain wear and tear, but I'd still bet that a conventional size sprocket would last considerably longer.






And is the reason that I put any route of significance or to be used for reference purposes onto Strava. It's not perfect, but it is a good indicator.

Another element that hasn't been mentioned within this thread or the thread started by D8veh about effeciency, is that invariably when people state a bikes maximum range, the mileage figure might have taken place over a series of rides when the rider was refreshed at the start of each one.
Projected mileage is also meaningless.

Hi Eddie PJ. I am now concerned about the lifetime of the motor on the Bosch are you really saying that the front cog is only good for 500 miles before replacement. I have a few bikes including an original Moulton c. 1962? still on its first chaineset. I s there not a digit missing?. Obviously you have much more experience on these Bosch bikes than I, but I would have expected that the major requirement of this OP was to have reliability over at least a working year . He is looking after all at 12000 miles in the year. I would have expected that the brand names associated with the Bosch systems were the most likely to give him that type of reliability .

 

[Artstu]

Some tiny sprockets out there, perhaps he could put a new one on every month or so.

ETA I'd also buy two bikes so hopefully at least one bike would work when the other doesn't

 

[Danidl]

As the OP hasn't given us any details of elevation change or gradient most of this discussion is meaningless. He is going to lose his licence, is not a stranger to cycling and actually only need a range of 22.5 miles.
Any decent ebike with fast rolling tyres and a decent battery capacity will do that in @1.5 hours if not too hilly and still be legal.
If he wants to take a risk and crank the speed up he may knock 15 mins off that but not a lot more. All we need to know now is how hilly and then advice can be given on hub v crank.
Then of course there is the discussion about all weather riding and how much that is likely to take out of him and the bike, maintenance is going to be another issue.
No I don't think my bike would be suitable for this, I would go for something a lot lighter than a Haibike without suspension but with fast high volume tyres to take the sting out of the road and maybe a suntour ncx seatpost.

Hi Chris, you appear to be one of the few people who actually read the full requirement s of this O P ( What do these letters signify I am an newbie ). In order to test it's feasibility I went out and tried a 22 Km spin while attempting to keep the speed of my Bosch powered bike at the legal 26Km/hr leaving the bike in maximum turbo assist mode . Yes I could do it and could probably carry on for double the distance. The topology was pretty level but with a brisk headwind for the first half. And obviously a tailwind on the return. I would have used up 1 bar of the 5 bars in the battery 400whr and into the second bar. So conclusion it is feasible . Particularly if the OP kept a battery charger at work. There are plenty of unknowns ... I s the OP in an urban or rural area Urban would need plenty of stop start and extend time rural might involve adverse headwinds.

 

[Croxden]

It's still bigger than the ones on the wheel

I still have the same one at 8400 miles, I suppose it might need replacing if you are fussy but why if it keeps performing.

 

[Nealh]

Hi Eddie PJ. I am now concerned about the lifetime of the motor on the Bosch are you really saying that the front cog is only good for 500 miles before replacement. I have a few bikes including an original Moulton c. 1962? still on its first chaineset. I s there not a digit missing?. Obviously you have much more experience on these Bosch bikes than I, but I would have expected that the major requirement of this OP was to have reliability over at least a working year . He is looking after all at 12000 miles in the year. I would have expected that the brand names associated with the Bosch systems were the most likely to give him that type of reliability .

You have to put Eddie's experience of the system in to context, esp where he rides and the conditions he rides in. Generally his neck of the woods (no pun intended) the soil/sand produces a fine grinding paste that eats away at the drive train not what you would get on the road.

 

[chris_n]

Hi Chris, you appear to be one of the few people who actually read the full requirement s of this O P ( What do these letters signify I am an newbie ). In order to test it's feasibility I went out and tried a 22 Km spin while attempting to keep the speed of my Bosch powered bike at the legal 26Km/hr leaving the bike in maximum turbo assist mode . Yes I could do it and could probably carry on for double the distance. The topology was pretty level but with a brisk headwind for the first half. And obviously a tailwind on the return. I would have used up 1 bar of the 5 bars in the battery 400whr and into the second bar. So conclusion it is feasible . Particularly if the OP kept a battery charger at work. There are plenty of unknowns ... I s the OP in an urban or rural area Urban would need plenty of stop start and extend time rural might involve adverse headwinds.

OP = original poster. As for wear on Eddie's drivetrain, the smaller the sprocket the more work it has to do, that is why mtb often have a steel granny gear and the others are aluminium.

 

[EddiePJ]

Danidl, as has already been mentioned after my post, you can't read too much into what I have written.
I'd guess that 90% of my riding time is spent off road, and when wet, the conditions local to me, make for a highly abrasive grinding paste that is harsh on all components. Even when the conditions are dry, a powder fine dust then becomes an issue.
Putting it into context, I have just bought my second set of brake discs this year, and have probably got through 4 or 5 sets of pads in the space of this year alone. Given that I have so far put less than 3k of miles in this year, that is quite some wear rate.

As Chris has mentioned, and I would agree with from a non mechanical engineer background, it would seem to me that the larger the front sprocket, the greater the contact point of the chain, and in my head, the less wear.
The front sprocket on a Bosch powered bike has to do an immense amount of work, especially when you consider that it is turning 2.5 times for every one peddle stroke.
Even without my harsh riding conditions, I suspect that I'd still only get about 1.5k of miles from a front sprocket. That is purely a guess though, so again don't necessarily read too much into that. I am very wary of claims though by people that state that they are getting several thousand from one sprocket. I can only assume that if these claims are true, which I don't buy into, then they are riding on very level ground, are placing very little load through the drive system, and ride in absolutely perfect riding conditions.

 

[Croxden]

Ask RobF how I ride and the conditions, I don't have an easy ride.

 

[nemesis]

I have a 19 tooth sprocket on the bosch cx and there are no signs of wear after a thousand miles but i only ride on the road.At the rear i have a 12-25 cassette because a 11-23 one wears out the 11 too much.The bike runs realy well in sport mode and has a nice cruise at about 25 mph with a 35 mile range on mildly undulating tarmac.
Cube carbon C-62 hybrid on 700 x 35 schwalbe kojak folding slicks.

 

[RobF]

Ask RobF how I ride and the conditions, I don't have an easy ride.

That's true, and neither does Croxden worry over much about cleaning and maintenance.

I think his Rohloff hub may be saving some wear on the front ring.

The chain is always in perfect alignment, and the higher chain line keeps it cleaner.

While that mostly helps with chain wear, I suspect it also leads to less wear on the single sprocket at the back and, to a lesser extent, less wear on the single ring at the front.