350w+ mountain bike, upto £5k

Hello all,

Im new to the forum and rather clueless when it comes to bikes. I have been looking for an electric bike for quite sometime, and I seem to be having trouble finding what it is I am looking for. I am after something mainly to use to blast around the woods next to my house in at weekends. By the looks of It I don't feel that a 250w is going to be enough, im after some real grunt and speed. I know this is all that is allowed legally on the roads, but I feel if I can find a bike with preferably around 500w that looks sort of like a normal bike then I will be fine. I have been looking at the Haibikes and the KTMs, but again they are only 250w, although I see that the Haibikes do a "tuning module" that at least takes the speed up to a supposed 30mph

I am 6 ft 1 and currently weight 19 stone so I need a bike and motor that can cope with that. I have upto around £5k to spend but would ideally like to spend around £2.5k.

So any recommendations are welcome, also if anyone knows of any bike shops that sell decent ebikes in or around Essex that would be great.

thanks

From our experiences at the various roadshows I think you will be pleased with the KTM e-Race P with the latest Panasonic drive,this bike has real grunt and is strong enough to take your weight. The bike is available with 26" wheels at £2200 or 650c at about £2500.

I know that KTM are about to stock a new dealer in the west of London(Kingston) with both of these bikes.

Don't worry about the 250 watt limit,it is how the torque is delivered and at what speed than the watt power.

Hope that helps.

I will advise the contact dealers address as soon as he is open-I know his opening stock is over 40 bikes so there will be lots of choice.

KudosDave

Edited July 4, 201312 yr by Kudoscycles

Hi our Silent wing is just what you described link below come to Banbury and try one we are open 7 days a week for demos we can do a 20 inch Frame

Silent Wing Kube

Or if you want to spend more we are just converting the following

Specialized Carve Comp 2013 Mountain Bike | Evans Cycles

We convert any Bike link for full suspension giant bike with Back pack Battery

Testimonials about Xipi

Frank

Hi James,

Almost certain you are the chap I was emailing yesterday.

Totally agree with what Dave said above almost exactly as I said yesterday.

Before you rule out a 250w and limit your buying options, why not come and have a go for yourself. That way you can see if it meets your expectations.

I'm here if you need me and I have both Haibikes and tuning dongles ready to go.

On paper 350w is more than 250w and on top trumps it would win.

But Remember in reality it's the torque and how efficiently the power is applied that is key.

Regards

Martin

Hi our Silent wing is just what you described link below come to Banbury and try one we are open 7 days a week for demos we can do a 20 inch Frame

 

Silent Wing Kube

 

Or if you want to spend more we are just converting the following

 

Specialized Carve Comp 2013 Mountain Bike | Evans Cycles

 

 

We convert any Bike link for full suspension giant bike with Back pack Battery

 

 

Testimonials about Xipi

 

Frank

Thanks. So am I right in thinking that has a 2500w motor limited to 250w that can easily be delimited?

The 2nd link doesn't seem to work

Build your own ... or take a look at Xipi. Are you wanting a full-sus or a hardtail ?

Thanks, im not really sure tbh. The xipi look impressive

Hi Yes There are 2 keys on the Kube battery one is the ignition key the other is the speed and power limiter lock

Frank

Hi Yes There are 2 keys on the Kube battery one is the ignition key the other is the speed and power limiter lock

 

Frank

Is the speed only throttle controlled or can it be setup just to boost pedal power?

You need to experience the torque,power etc. as motors are rated for continuous 250W D8veh and pals can explain how to solder a shunt and peak power over 750W can occur. the hallibikes do look impresive though.

Having monitored the watts draw off my Cycle Analyst on a 500W rated motor on steep hills I can say that 750W is not that much. I like to pedal hard and spin up hills too (albeit using the big chainring when unpowered I'd be on the granny ring !) ... makes you feel like you're contributing something at least and getting some decent exercise - however a proper steep hill will see over 1300W drawn from the motor to sustain 15-18mph.

Off-road, a very important consideration is that the bike is robust to take the added weight to the frame and that you don't compromise the handling too much with the eBike bits. If you want to do serious off-roading at higher speeds with a lot of shocks then consider a backpack battery and a full-sus bike stripped down of extras plus a blooming decent set of brakes and tyres. Don't waste time with any rack-mounted battery setup for this type of use. In-frame or off-bike.

To be completely honest, the higher power bikes give you road bike speeds with knobbly tyres on tarmac .. and they're great for that. But I've never used anything like the full power capabilities of even a 500W (1300W peak) setup off-road - if you try one you'll realize why. Just something to think about.

For what James has described, he needs either a 500w geared motor or 1000w dirext drive. I prefer the geared motor because it's lighter, but could suffer gear damage if serious off-roading is done. At 19 stone, no 250w motor will be sufficient. The Bosch-motored bikes can be de-restricted to 30 mph, but the dongle doesn't add any more torque, so a 19 stone rider will only be seeing that type of speed down-hill. I think Sacko's Kraken is still for sale. That's a lovely bike for the money. You couldn't buy the bits for that price.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/classifieds/14824-24s-lipo-ht3525-kraken.html

Hello all,

 

Im new to the forum and rather clueless when it comes to bikes. I have been looking for an electric bike for quite sometime, and I seem to be having trouble finding what it is I am looking for. I am after something mainly to use to blast around the woods next to my house in at weekends. By the looks of It I don't feel that a 250w is going to be enough, im after some real grunt and speed. I know this is all that is allowed legally on the roads, but I feel if I can find a bike with preferably around 500w that looks sort of like a normal bike then I will be fine. I have been looking at the Haibikes and the KTMs, but again they are only 250w, although I see that the Haibikes do a "tuning module" that at least takes the speed up to a supposed 30mph

 

I am 6 ft 1 and currently weight 19 stone so I need a bike and motor that can cope with that. I have upto around £5k to spend but would ideally like to spend around £2.5k.

 

So any recommendations are welcome, also if anyone knows of any bike shops that sell decent ebikes in or around Essex that would be great.

 

thanks

Hi to All,

I've belonged to this forum for some time, read lots and lots which has been very informative (for that I unreservedly thank you) but up until now have posted zilch... as is my way.

James like you I have set aside £2.5K for a reasonable quality mountain e-bike and for some time have been doing my research. I have yet to put my bum on an e-bike (contacted Matt from e-bikesdirect yesterday re:AVE XH-5 and then there’s though Haibikes) but knowing me as I do I don't envisage that as being a problem. At present I ride a decent Cannondale so what ever I buy will initially likely feel like lead (I know it's unfair to compare one with the other).

I notice you state in your original post that a “250wt motor is all that is allowed legally.”

Following an email response earlier this week to a question that I asked the Parliamentary Under Secretary for Transport some 3 weeks earlier I can say that this is still not the case. I had a slightly better chance of actually getting any reply as I reside in his constituency. I made my question very simple asking advice on purchasing an e-bike noting it was difficult to obey the UK law as e-bikes seem to come with a 250wt motor fitted as standard with 200wt being as rare as rocking horse poo (though not quite in those words).

The reply goes thus:

As it stands, the motor should not have a maximum power output of more than

200 watts if it is a bicycle. That said, this matter was subject to a review last year

about whether the limit should be changed from 200 to 250 watts, for bicycles in

the UK. The review has now finished, the results of which are still being

considered.

This will not come as news to anyone who has an interest in e-bikes.

What really annoyed me was the bit that followed.

In light of the above, my advice would be to wait until after the results of the

review have been made public and a decision made on whether to change the

limit from 200 to 250 watts. I am afraid I cannot say when this might happen.

Two things this week have further rubbed salt into the wound.

I popped into Halfords to buy a foot pump for the car when e-bikes caught my eye. While noting they all had 250wt motors fitted a child like creature sprang from no where and try to sell me one and after discussion informed me they are perfectly legal.

Further and better, the very next day my local authority under the “Wheels 2 Work” scheme is offering e-bikes to staff and also spouses … which I find myself (and no I don’t want one of theirs). I will me amazed if they don’t have 250wt motors.

I have replied to said MP and probably stated what most think. I also plan to attend a surgery for a face to face meeting (being a child of the 60’s I’m not averse to confrontation) as this really is disgraceful.

I thought I would share this information with you. Do not take a 250wt motor as a legal given, it is not.

Best regards,

PhilX

Hi PhilX,

Yes you are correct, the legal limit is 200w on a normal bike and 250w on a tandem, however rumours that the legislations is due to change in 2016 have arose. The manufacturers have been producing ebikes with the 250w motors for a while now. With a blind eye being turned from the current out of date legislation. With the rule that 250w is okay, but no bigger. 250w is currently allowed under EU legislation, which the UK will most probably adopt.

Funnily enough I lent the local police force 2 of my Panasonic 250w powered ebikes last year, for which they used locally for a month. Nothing was asked by them of the motor rating and they are in the middle of plans to purchase some.

Also its worth considering that Boris Johnston is currently in talk with the MET police about purchasing Haibikes for many of the London police.

Read back through this forum where the legislation is discussed in more detail.

Regards

Martin

Hi Martin,

Yes I was aware of Lord Boris of London, nice Haibikes. Also noted the issue seemed to be of funding with legalities not getting a mention. I did cite this in my reply.

Co-incidentally refering to your post i also cited that Sussex polce enjoyed playing on an e-bike this week.

http://tinyurl.com/py6ehyg

I wanted to cite that Wealden Police bought afleet of e-bikes for community policing but I lacked accurate info. I know they were Wispers but in the back of my mind I've a feeling they can be restricted to 200wts so left it. It would be great if they weren't!

I could find myself being nikked by a local community police person on a 250wt pedelec for riding a 250wt pedelec. A dream come true.

I also cited Halfords as being a National Chain which I feel is important as it takes the niche market feeling away.

You say that rumours that legislation is due to change in 2016 (3 years time). What chance of put a source to this?

Phil

For what James has described, he needs either a 500w geared motor or 1000w dirext drive. I prefer the geared motor because it's lighter, but could suffer gear damage if serious off-roading is done. At 19 stone, no 250w motor will be sufficient. The Bosch-motored bikes can be de-restricted to 30 mph, but the dongle doesn't add any more torque, so a 19 stone rider will only be seeing that type of speed down-hill. I think Sacko's Kraken is still for sale. That's a lovely bike for the money. You couldn't buy the bits for that price.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/classifieds/14824-24s-lipo-ht3525-kraken.html

That's even better than winning the national ,or even better still the worldwide lottery. Thumbs up to you SacKo and thumbs up to you d8veh for putting this up. Again, as usual I am a great believer in honesty.

Remember this, the cleaner your heart is you will get much further in life and that is a fact.

I LOVE YOU ALL.

MS. XX

250 watts is allowed without fear of prosecution due to a waiver from the DfT. This recognises the facts that most of the e-bikes on the road and on sale are already 250 watt, EU law for all member countries is 250 watt and the intention is to change the law in the UK to 250 watt in future.

Below are extracts from their statements on this subject:

Summary of Government response to consultation

2.The Department for Transport has considered the responses to this consultation and supports recommendations to harmonise power limits (from 200 Watts to 250 Watts) with similar provisions in place across Europe. This will provide consumers with access to a wider range of electrically assisted cycles.

Extracts from intentions:

"The DfT and Police are aware that electric bikes currently sold and used in the UK are fitted with 250W motors, they do not intend to become involved in prosecuting those that sell or ride them. The use of an "Off Road Button" however is strictly forbidden now and is specifically mentioned in documents appertaining to new and existing guidelines".

"Grandfather rights" will apply to all bikes sold before the new regulations come into force. So any changes will not be retrospective".

Hi flecc,

Thanxs for your response it's very helpful.

I'm fine with:

2.The Department for Transport has considered the responses to this consultation and supports recommendations to harmonise power limits (from 200 Watts to 250 Watts) with similar provisions...

I've sourced that to the Consultation Document which is great.

I'm struggling with the second part.

Extract from Intentions:

The DfT and Police are aware that electric bikes currently sold and used in the UK are fitted with 250W motors, they do not intend to become involved in prosecuting those that sell or ride them.

I'm failing to source this.

Could you point me in the right direction?

Cheers mate,

Phil

That was part of a minuted meeting between the DfT and interested parties including BEBA (British Electric Bike Association). I don't suppose this went into the public domain.

There is precedent for this being acknowledged by a police traffic department in the City of London Police who consulted the DfT in a possible case. I'm aware of the police officer involved but cannot disclose his identity for confidentiality reasons

Hi flecc.

Thanxs again for your reply it explains why I cannot trace that back to source which is a pity.

You are a gold mine of information.

On the plus side your mention of BEBA took me to their web site where under "About" they clearly state that" E-bikes are legally classified as bicycles, provided they have motors of 250 watts or less ...". This may be so in the parts of the EU that have adopted the directive but conflicts the reply given to me by the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport in answer to my question on motor size where he advised waiting until the results of the review had been made public and a decision made to change the limit from 200wt to 250wt.

They are the BRITISH Electrical Biking Ass' and their word should be gospel to us Brits and may be it is?

Who knows??? :-)

I was amazed how many e-bikes had already been sold and that sales in 2012 were expected to reach £27M and expand further in 2013.

A sizable industry.

I will be interested as to what the Right Honourable Member has to say.

Personally I find it all smoke and mirrors so I have decided to do my own thing.

Fondest regards,

PhilX

BEBA's publication of the limit being 250 watts is a direct result of that meeting Phil, one of a number which BEBA and other interested parties have attended with the DfT. The industry has a parliamentary lobbyist in Lord Laird who, with BEBA, has mounted an e-bike demonstration to parliament as you can see on this link. Note that the City of London Police also gave a presentation there and that all e-bikes present were 250 watt rated.

I'm not at all surprised by the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport reply that you received, they would have been bound to state the legislated provision. There are precedents for these informal waivers though, even in cycling. For example, the Countryside Act of 1968 permits cycling on bridleways, mentioning only "bicycles". Other UK cycling legislation mentions "bicycles, tricycles and bicycles with four or more wheels". So the act precludes tricycles. However, the government backed Sustrans sustainable transport organisation successfully lobbied the DfT for a waiver for tricycles, now permitting tricycles.

Another is the issue of cycling on pavements which is illegal, but a waiver exists for those who do so out of fear of traffic. Here's the detail:

On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. At the time Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by 'Community Support Officers' and wardens.

"CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)

.

Edited July 6, 201312 yr by flecc

Thanks Dave

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14824

I'm 6ft 4" 17stone and this takes me to 45mph, quickly!

Direct drive is what you need for off road, geared drives are very good but like Dave has said; they maybe subject to abuse off road.

Edited July 7, 201312 yr by Sacko

Peaks at 4.5kw (45amps @ 100.6v)

At 20mph it cruises at a mere 270-280w, there aren't many bikes as efficient as that.

Range 17-30 miles

Will climb ANY hill @ 29mph

Comfortable cruising at any speed from 5mph-40mph

Top speed 45mph

Can be restricted by programming the speeds on the 2 speed switch. Currently set for 30mph and 45mph.

Edited July 7, 201312 yr by Sacko