20mph speed limit -applies to bikes ?

[flecc]

The one question though is the referendum on Scotland's independence which is going to happen before then, probably next year. This could change the political landscape completely and cause Westminster to bring the referendum for the whole of the UK forward before the next election possibly, and there is growing pressure from the Lib Dem and Labour for that, because the uncertainty over our future with the EU is not good, the longer it goes on... it's putting foreign investment into Britain and trade agreements at risk.

I'd like to see Scottish independence since I think it would be good for both Scotland and England to have more self-determination. However, I'm virtually certain it won't happen. Not only is there a clear majority against it at present, the UK political parties are wholly against it and once they combine into the full consequences scaring mode, the Scots will become even more nervous about the implications. A shame, but there it is, politicians exist as people who like power and losing Scotland as a part of the union is a loss of power at Westminster and internationally.

As a side note, I do wish our politicians woulds stop saying that Scotland leaving the Union would be a break up of the United Kingdom, it would not be. The SNP has stated it will retain the status of the United Kingdom throne so the UK would remain intact. Only it's political affiliation would change.

 

[Old_Dave]

referendum on Scotland's independence

I'm please to say that I'm defiantly a 'don't know'

There are so many pros and cons for both sides of the arguments that the more one digs into the bones of the matter the more one realizes that both cases are equally right and wrong.

I do hope there's a box to tick that says ... I'm smart enough to know I don't f'ing know

 

[morphix]

I'd like to see Scottish independence since I think it would be good for both Scotland and England to have more self-determination. However, I'm virtually certain it won't happen. Not only is there a clear majority against it at present, the UK political parties are wholly against it and once they combine into the full consequences scaring mode, the Scots will become even more nervous about the implications. A shame, but there it is, politicians exist as people who like power and losing Scotland as a part of the union is a loss of power at Westminster and internationally.

As a side note, I do wish our politicians woulds stop saying that Scotland leaving the Union would be a break up of the United Kingdom, it would not be. The SNP has stated it will retain the status of the United Kingdom throne so the UK would remain intact. Only it's political affiliation would change.

I agree flecc, I think it would be good for Scotland and England. It's not a break up of the UK at all either as you say, more like a change of management and more self-determination locally. It would be nice if the process continually fully, so that Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland AND England, all had their own regional assembly governments, and Westminster just acted as the meeting place for deciding national/international issues concerning the UK.

 

[flecc]

I agree flecc, I think it would be good for Scotland and England. It's not a break up of the UK at all either as you say, more like a change of management and more self-determination locally. It would be nice if the process continually fully, so that Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland AND England, all had their own regional assembly governments, and Westminster just acted as the meeting place for deciding national/international issues concerning the UK.

I agree on each of us having our own assembly, but to avoid confusion, if Scotland leaves the union, we would have to use the traditional Britain and Northern Ireland reference for the overseeing of our international and common issues, not using the term United Kingdom in a political sense.

Of course if the six countries of Northern Ireland had never been split off to be overseen by Britain, we wouldn't now be saddled with the UK name's existence, it would just be Britain and so much simpler.

 

[Scimitar]

I'm firmly against Scotland leaving the UK, even if it still chooses to have Lizzie as monarch - big deal that is.
If I were still there, I'd be voting against it and I'll tell you why...
The SNP are a shower of no-hopers, losers and typical slimy political tosspots who weren't good enough to cut it on a larger stage so they see this as their chance to be a big fish in a small pond.
To this end, they know they're on a possible winner if they stir up all the old hatreds and negativities about the Auld Enemy. You've no idea how much I despise politicians, but the SNP have a special place in my cupboard of despicion.
That's it - nothing's changed over the past four or five decades - they're still the same creatures.

 

[Old_Dave]

+1 on the SNP, but that's more of a single issue relating to the rabid knee jerking salmon so I'll refrain from getting on my soap box.

On A different issue... If there is a shortage of finance, I'm sure Libya will help out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[morphix]

I agree on each of us having our own assembly, but to avoid confusion, if Scotland leaves the union, we would have to use the traditional Britain and Northern Ireland reference for the overseeing of our international and common issues, not using the term United Kingdom in a political sense.

Of course if the six countries of Northern Ireland had never been split off to be overseen by Britain, we wouldn't now be saddled with the UK name's existence, it would just be Britain and so much simpler.

I always thought Great Britain was only brought into existence by the political union of Scotland and England? So if Scotland wishes to end that union, shouldn't we stop using Britain/Great Britain, and just become England again? The UK's future I see more as a federation of countries in the British Isles, which includes the isle of man, and channel isles states with their own independent governments. We all have common issues, like a single currency (sterling, although isle of man has manx variant I think) and common legal system (with a few changes here and there), shared infrastructure policing, health service and a unified military etc.. so we need the UK to hold it all together.. even if the path to independence for our countries leads to increasing autonomy over parts of this infrastructure in certain areas like health trusts and policing... in the interests of economy of scale and the military side at least, we still need a national administration and joint policy making ability.

Although Scotland will have the right to join the Euro and they have indicated they will if they gain independence because it's very doubtful Scotland will be able to support itself independently without the UK subsidies it receives, so it will probably look to EU subsidies (subject to a referendum on Euro membership and Scotland meeting the economic criteria of course) so that could draw Scotland closer and deeper into Europe and put it on a different path to the rest of the UK!

I think this is why some are very skeptical about Scottish independence and whether it can practically work, because of their reliance on the UK economically. Some of their plans being outlined as an independent country require massive spending, and where is that going to come from? They don't have sufficient GDP. They're going to be dependent on the EU and just a small state in the union. The EU won't allow them to run up massive debt and will tightly control their spending and economic policy making.

 

[jazper53]

If Scotland cuts its ties with UK and gets into bed with Europe and joins the Euro, and we go in the opposite direction, and get out of Europe, we may have to think about renovating Hadrian's Wall.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

As Scotland are holding a referendum to determine whether or not they stay within the UK, a referendum I absolutely agree with beleiving the wishes of the people are paramount in a democracy, should the rest of the UK have the opportunity to hold a similar vote, to establish if we want to keep Scotland? I wonder how that vote would go?

D

 

[jazper53]

As Scotland are holding a referendum to determine whether or not they stay within the UK, a referendum I absolutely agree with beleiving the wishes of the people are paramount in a democracy, should the rest of the UK have the opportunity to hold a similar vote, to establish if we want to keep Scotland? I wonder how that vote would go?

D

I prefer to have a referendum on Europe with a very simple choice to vote on, IN OR OUT.

 

[morphix]

As Scotland are holding a referendum to determine whether or not they stay within the UK, a referendum I absolutely agree with beleiving the wishes of the people are paramount in a democracy, should the rest of the UK have the opportunity to hold a similar vote, to establish if we want to keep Scotland? I wonder how that vote would go?

D

That's an interesting thought David. Although many view Scotland as a valuable and integral part of the UK, from a cultural and economic point of view... when you dig into deeper on the politics, many would argue England would be better off without propping up Scotland and having Scottish MP's in parliament voting on English matters, and just letting them go their own way.

I also wonder what implications on our own economy it will have if SNP does gets wishes and we have a Eurozone in our kingdom! I guess you have to look at north/south Ireland as that's a similar situation.. will certain goods and resources be more expensive/cheaper across the border.. will the UK lower its VAT again etc if free of the EU's common economic policies.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The question came up over Sunday lunch yesterday Morphix. Although I would prefer to see Scotland remain as a full and integral part of the UK, we wondered how many in England would care one way or the other and how many would rather cut ties.

One interesting point that was raised, how would it effect the vote in the next General Election? As there are so many safe Labour seats in Scotland, surely such a split would be a perfect gerrymandering ploy for the Tories?

 

[Old_Dave]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9015374/Britain-divided-over-Scottish-independence.html

A new opinion poll has painted a picture of a divided Britain – with Scottish voters rejecting independence for their country while English voters support it.

 

[morphix]

The question came up over Sunday lunch yesterday Morphix. Although I would prefer to see Scotland remain as a full and integral part of the UK, we wondered how many in England would care one way or the other and how many would rather cut ties.

One interesting point that was raised, how would it effect the vote in the next General Election? As there are so many safe Labour seats in Scotland, surely such a split would be a perfect gerrymandering ploy for the Tories?

It is indeed interesting thing to consider and I wonder if any polls have been carried out. On the whole, I think England's (and the rest of the UK's) relationship with Scotland and the Scottish is very good, there doesn't seem to be any problem does there... I think the SNP stirs up a lot of negativity though from what I've seen about the UK and England in particular. Are the Scottish turning anti-UK and becoming more nationalistic? That's another interesting to gauge? I would think the majority aren't and are happy with the status quo.

That is another interesting point you make about the political implications for a general election. Could this indeed strengthen the Tories position and hence their being supportive of this early referendum. Cameron has said he'll go "all out" to convince the Scottish they're better off remaining as they are in UK because he believes that's in their best interests and ours.

 

[jazper53]

I noticed the age of people interviewed for this poll were 18+. Scotland I understand will be including 16+ in the vote, which makes this poll fundamentally flawed on the Scottish results

 

[GaRRy]

As Scotland are holding a referendum to determine whether or not they stay within the UK, a referendum I absolutely agree with beleiving the wishes of the people are paramount in a democracy, should the rest of the UK have the opportunity to hold a similar vote, to establish if we want to keep Scotland? I wonder how that vote would go?

D

Yes we should. Why should just over 5 million people be the only ones to vote on something that will effect 63 million people. Hardly democratic is it ?.

A independant Scotland will have far reaching implications for whole of UK so we should all have a say in any such decision not just those living in Scotland.

 

[Old_Dave]

which makes this poll fundamentally flawed

True.. but all polls / surveys are fundamentally flawed

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Dave, that is very interesting and exactly what I would have imagined. Hopefully the Scots will vote to keep the status quo.

It would have been interesting to see the same questions asked of the 16 to 18 age group, I bet the results in Scotland would have been completely different.

 

[jazper53]

Yes we should. Why should just over 5 million people be the only ones to vote on something that will effect 63 million people. Hardly democratic is it ?.

A independant Scotland will have far reaching implications for whole of UK so we should all have a say in any such decision not just those living in Scotland.

I don't think we should in England have the right to vote on Scottish independence, as if we did, and the vote went against independence, it could start civil strife, much like the break up of Yugoslavia

 

[GaRRy]

I don't think we should in England have the right to vote on Scottish independence, as if we did, and the vote went against independence, it could start civil strife, much like the break up of Yugoslavia

Dont remember Yugoslavia have any votes on the idea. Also most of that was more along religious/race grounds an nothing to do with financial independance.

The simple fact is that if Scotland decided to go completely independant that would have serious political and financial consequnces for the rest of UK and as such we should all have a say.

Now further devolution of powers to the Scotish parliment is a different matter but even that is currently wrong as Scottish,Welsh and northern Irish MPS currently can vote on things which only effect England which is also completely wrong (Yes Im aware that some abstain from voting on such matters but there is nothing to stop them from voting).