2016 KTM thread

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Afternoon all.

Its that time of the year when we start seeing information on the 2016 range. The UK press are off to the press launch next week, and then its our sales meeting a few days later. So lots of information will start coming out, so we thought we'd start this thread so we can put it all in one place.

This photo was released by KTM this morning, because their local politicians came for a visit, to look round the factory in Austria. Nothing too exciting about that and then we noticed the bike!

Looks like a 2016 fully rigid eFat bike.... lots of love here in the office for this bike already.

 

[jdallan]

What would be more exciting would be being able to get bikes from the 2015 range. Both my neighbour and I have tried unsuccessfully very recently to buy new EStreetPs

Jim

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

What would be more exciting would be being able to get bikes from the 2015 range. Both my neighbour and I have tried unsuccessfully very recently to buy new EStreetPs

Jim

Very sorry to hear that, I'm afraid we're in a position where demand is higher than supply for lots of the models in the KTM range, so in many many cases our dealers did not order enough stock to fulfil demand and as such there are some models that its been hard for customers to order.

The eRace Ps are available to order and come in 29" wheel option so with some mudguards fitted with narrower tyres it would be a very similar bike to the eStreet P, if thats of any help.

I can put you in touch with dealers who have stock if its of any use.

Regards
Col

 

[RobF]

What would be more exciting would be being able to get bikes from the 2015 range. Both my neighbour and I have tried unsuccessfully very recently to buy new EStreetPs

Jim

The bicycle industry has always been better at launching new models than supplying them.

My local bike shop bought a job lot of £400 GT mountain bikes on clearance.

The reason the owner did it is he knows the other two local shops have little or nothing in their brands at that price, and won't be able to get anything for quite a while.

He's been proved right, the GTs have been selling as fast as he can build them.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

The bicycle industry has always been better at launching new models than supplying them.

My local bike shop bought a job lot of £400 GT mountain bikes on clearance.

The reason the owner did it is he knows the other two local shops have little or nothing in their brands at that price, and won't be able to get anything for quite a while.

He's been proved right, the GTs have been selling as fast as he can build them.

Its a fair point, but as with anything, you can only make so many. Our dealers and most of the customers who own KTM actually seem to like it that we've sold out. It means the stock they have is worth good money and their bikes have decent second hand value.

GT clearing bikes out, might help this one dealer out in the short term, but it damages the brand and the shop long term because his customers will expect clearance products next year.

In practice for the shops, its better if the customers know the price they pay at any point in the year is a fair one, and that they won't find their bike 40% off if they wait for the summer to by it.

With the eStreet Ps for instance, they've been available for our dealers to order and sell for most of the year (don't forget the bike year is generally mid August - mid August). Lots did order and they have all sold, so the customers who got one feel good, and know if they want to sell it to updgrade to a 2016 one their bike will be worth almost what they paid for it, because no one is clearing them out.

The only people who loose out are customers like the one above who want something they can't have, but there are always other options from our brand, or just wait a month or so and you'll be able to order a 2016 one, safe in the knowledge that the backside won't fall out of the price as soon as you walk out of the store.

 

[RobF]

GT clearing bikes out, might help this one dealer out in the short term, but it damages the brand and the shop long term because his customers will expect clearance products next year.

In practice for the shops, its better if the customers know the price they pay at any point in the year is a fair one, and that they won't find their bike 40% off if they wait for the summer to by it.

In this instance the bikes are routinely being sold at 10 per cent cash discount off recommended retail, so I don't think there's any brand damage.

The shop will discount most bikes by that amount, assuming they are not being bought on bike to work.

I've been helping out in the shop a bit recently.

Most customers spending this sort of money simply want a decent bike straight away, or at least within a few days.

I think they are right in that there's very little to choose between the established brands.

A Trek, Giant or Specialized from the other shops would be just as good as the GT.

Except they don't have any.

The owner of the shop is cautious about buying job lots.

What he doesn't want to happen is to be left with bikes which the wholesaler then sells even cheaper later in the season.

I'm told the wholesaler of Cannondale is quite good in this respect.

They will tell the shop owner if the bikes in question are the last UK stock of that model year.

Thus the shop owner knows that even if the bikes take a while to sell, they won't crop up even cheaper on the internet a few months later.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Hi Rob...

10% off isn't a massive discount, and if the other shops have no stock, why discount at all?? He'll be doing 10% of more off because he has to on these bikes, because most retailers are doing the sub £1000.00 GTs are 15% or more off already and have been for some time, because they don't sell at full price really.

Also just f.y.i GT and Cannondale come from the same supplier, and they have a reasonable reputation, not the worst but by no means a good one. I had a dealer, complaining about them today actually, because they are clearing out Cannondales and the dealers are upset because they all have stock in store that is now worth loads less than they paid for it.

Its a complicated industry that can improve in loads of ways, but if a brand has stock all year, it means pressure will be on to clear things out, which isn't good for anyone. Ideally you want to sell out just before the season ends, and you start supplying the new stock, but thats not possible to manage without a crystal ball. So its always going to go one way or the other.

 

[RobF]

Hi Rob...

10% off isn't a massive discount, and if the other shops have no stock, why discount at all?? .

The shop manager asked the same question rhetorically after the last GT sale yesterday afternoon.

His answer to himself was the shop would routinely give 10 per cent, whatever stock the other shops had.

It was an easy sale, the customer was in the shop for 10 minutes and just swung his leg over the bike to check the size.

The customer did ask about a cash discount.

Believe it or not, the shop's policy is to play fair with the customers, which is what happened in this case.

I'm not saying all is well in their GT firmament.

It looks like they are stuck with a £1,500 full sus GT mountain bike.

I suspect that will have to be discounted heavily at some point to get rid of it.

As you may have gathered, the shop is a GT and Cannondale dealer - same supplier as you say.

I understand the shop is on good trade terms with Cannondale after the owner wisely negotiated extra discount many years ago when the brand was being relaunched in the UK.

At the time, Cannondale were keen to recruit dealers, so the shop owner was able to use that as a bit of leverage.

 

[jdallan]

Very sorry to hear that, I'm afraid we're in a position where demand is higher than supply for lots of the models in the KTM range, so in many many cases our dealers did not order enough stock to fulfil demand and as such there are some models that its been hard for customers to order.

The eRace Ps are available to order and come in 29" wheel option so with some mudguards fitted with narrower tyres it would be a very similar bike to the eStreet P, if thats of any help.

I can put you in touch with dealers who have stock if its of any use.

Regards
Col

Thanks Col, that might be of interest, especially if the bike/s could be supplied by the dealer in Granton, Edinburgh. (We're in N/E Fife.). Re your advice elsewhere in this thread (sorry, I haven't mastered multiple quotes) are you sure EStreetPs will be available for 2016? I have heard that a current problem with frames means they might not be produced.

Regards

Jim

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Thanks Col, that might be of interest, especially if the bike/s could be supplied by the dealer in Granton, Edinburgh. (We're in N/E Fife.). Re your advice elsewhere in this thread (sorry, I haven't mastered multiple quotes) are you sure EStreetPs will be available for 2016? I have heard that a current problem with frames means they might not be produced.

Regards

Jim

hi Jim.

There is a build of the eRace Ps happening next week, the 29" wheel size bikes have all pre-sold to dealers and I don't think any of them will give them up to supply your dealer in Edinburgh. However there is spare stock of the 27.5" wheel size eRace P in all sizes, so they could easily order them for you.

Its a slightly smaller wheel than the eStreet, but you can still get the faster rolling hybrid tyres and mudguards for this bike, and its available to order in all 3 sizes, and would be delivered to the store within 10 days if they ordered now.

Regarding the eStreet, there was an issue with the frames that meant the later builds didn't happen this season, which is part of the reason they were so rare. We've been told there won't be an eStreet next season, but that could just mean a subtle change in the bike name. It used to be called the eCross (2014), and they added mudguards for 2015 and changed the name, so it might just mean the eCross is coming back, or it could mean there won't be a hybrid / cross bike in the Panasonic hub drive range - but I find this unlikely because its a great seller.

 

[jdallan]

hi Jim.

There is a build of the eRace Ps happening next week, the 29" wheel size bikes have all pre-sold to dealers and I don't think any of them will give them up to supply your dealer in Edinburgh. However there is spare stock of the 27.5" wheel size eRace P in all sizes, so they could easily order them for you.

Its a slightly smaller wheel than the eStreet, but you can still get the faster rolling hybrid tyres and mudguards for this bike, and its available to order in all 3 sizes, and would be delivered to the store within 10 days if they ordered now.

Regarding the eStreet, there was an issue with the frames that meant the later builds didn't happen this season, which is part of the reason they were so rare. We've been told there won't be an eStreet next season, but that could just mean a subtle change in the bike name. It used to be called the eCross (2014), and they added mudguards for 2015 and changed the name, so it might just mean the eCross is coming back, or it could mean there won't be a hybrid / cross bike in the Panasonic hub drive range - but I find this unlikely because its a great seller.

Thanks again Col, I'll pursue this with my dealer in Edinburgh. Can you confirm that the ERaceP 27.5" wheel size has the new bigger battery?

Regards

Jim

 

[Sherman]

Looks like a 2016 fully rigid eFat bike.... lots of love here in the office for this bike already.

Looks more like 27+/29+ bike, not sure tho. But 27+ will be big for 2016.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Thanks again Col, I'll pursue this with my dealer in Edinburgh. Can you confirm that the ERaceP 27.5" wheel size has the new bigger battery?

Regards

Jim

Yes, happy to confirm all the 2015 panasonic drive bikes (with frame mounted batteries) come with the new bigger battery.

 

[jdallan]

Yes, happy to confirm all the 2015 panasonic drive bikes (with frame mounted batteries) come with the new bigger battery.

Thank you.

Jim

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Back on topic

Here's a sneaky picture of the Macina Kapoho

Kapoho is new 27.5+ full suspension bike with the same Boost 148 frame concept as the Scarp and Lycan, it will only be available in alloy.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Here's another one for you.

2016 KTM Macina eGnition.
With Shimano 1x11 and the new Bosch CX5 motor and 500 Watt hour battery.

As reference:
Active Line = 48 nM torque
Performance Line = 60 nM torque
CX5 Line = 75 nM torque

 

[EddiePJ]

Very nice indeed. :0

Anyone want a 'slightly' used Macina Lycan.

 

[RobF]

Here's another one for you.

2016 KTM Macina eGnition.
With Shimano 1x11 and the new Bosch CX5 motor and 500 Watt hour battery.

As reference:
Active Line = 48 nM torque
Performance Line = 60 nM torque
CX5 Line = 75 nM torque

Bosch appear to be accurate with their figures, so the CX5 will have a lot of grunt.

The extra - and all but instant - torque of Croxden's Performance Line Haibike kept me upright once when I think it would have been foot down time on one of my standard Bosch motor bikes.

Rare for me to be in that position, but I can see proper mountain bikers making good use of the CX5 motor.

 

[Sherman]

Kapoho was very much expected bike and looks a nice one.

Seems like for 2016 KTM went the traditional way and just slapped the motor and battery on the frame. Other manufacturers are going more for the integrated style. But maybe KTM has some surprises, we'll see..

 

[JamesW]

Here's another one for you.
...
With Shimano 1x11 and the new Bosch CX5 motor and 500 Watt hour battery.
As reference:
Active Line = 48 nM torque
Performance Line = 60 nM torque
CX5 Line = 75 nM torque

Bosch appear to be accurate with their figures, so the CX5 will have a lot of grunt.

The extra - and all but instant - torque of Croxden's Performance Line Haibike kept me upright once when I think it would have been foot down time on one of my standard Bosch motor bikes.

Rare for me to be in that position, but I can see proper mountain bikers making good use of the CX5 motor.

ohh - I don't know...
nano Megas of torque?

surely it should be Newton meters?