2013 Bosch Motored E-bikes

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

At £2750 it should tick all the boxes,is it worth £2000 more than an average priced bottle battery bike on ebay though,or better than the forthcoming kudos range,it really is a high premium price and i would like to know what you get,in terms of extra power or build quality to justify the price.

Hi Paul,

Please refer back to my previous message regarding spec.
Anyone who knows bikes; knows the spec on the Haibikes.

For example the KTM macina 29 is £2400.
The haibike RC 29 is £2750

The difference between these two is so substantial in regards to components.
Just the difference in forks alone easily outweighs the £350 price difference.

So please take a look at the spec to answer your question.
As for the comparison to a eBay bottle battery bike.... Whole different league!
Take the electrics off the RC 29 and it's worth a hell of a lot more than any bottle battery bike.

You are paying for good old German engineering and also componentry that is durable and a bike that is going to last.

Martin

 

[Hanslowmo]

the haibike looks interesting. yup i saw what you mean about the motor location. i was like doh for a second looking at the battery location and then realised, oh yup the motor. its rather well done-not seen many with it above or that ive noticed..lol ill be checking that more in future.

think i would still like to hear from 'electrifying cycles' to see what 2013 ktm ebikes that they have in stock then i will weigh it up.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

the haibike looks interesting. yup i saw what you mean about the motor location. i was like doh for a second looking at the battery location and then realised, oh yup the motor. its rather well done-not seen many with it above or that ive noticed..lol ill be checking that more in future.

think i would still like to hear from 'electrifying cycles' to see what 2013 ktm ebikes that they have in stock then i will weigh it up.

No worries,

Well like I say I have them in stock ready to go. I know you live afar, but I can offer free next day carriage.

You have all the details of my bikes to hand on the website if there's any more info you need please give me a shout.

Alternatively if your passing my way soon please pop in for a chat Ill show you the range over a coffee

Regards
Martin

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Hi Paul,

Please refer back to my previous message regarding spec.
Anyone who knows bikes; knows the spec on the Haibikes.

For example the KTM macina 29 is £2400.
The haibike RC 29 is £2750

The difference between these two is so substantial in regards to components.
Just the difference in forks alone easily outweighs the £350 price difference.

So please take a look at the spec to answer your question.
As for the comparison to a eBay bottle battery bike.... Whole different league!
Take the electrics off the RC 29 and it's worth a hell of a lot more than any bottle battery bike.

You are paying for good old German engineering and also componentry that is durable and a bike that is going to last.

Martin

The KTM Race is lighter (1.5kg). One of the members bought one of these and was very impressed. I do not agree that the KTM is not as good value. I would also question spending £350 extra unless the Haibike had features which you wanted over the KTM. AVE and other makes have the same motor feature. I would be interested in hearing what other members think.

Here is the view of someone who bought a Macina Race
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/13373-thoughts-new-ktm.html

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Hanslowmo,

Just to point out, the 2013 KTM still feature the old 'under frame' style of Bosch motor.
This doesn't just look odd it's very vulnerable to knocks and being damaged under the frame there.
Check out the 2013 haibikes on my site look at the pictures of how the motors mounted, you will see what I mean straight away..

Also when comparing, take away the electronics and compare the base bike spec of the mountain bike components, then compare back to price I think you'll be surprised what the 2013 haibikes have to offer..

Regards
Martin

Martin most Bosch bikes have the motor positioned in this way. Yet no reports of any damage and would disagree they are 'very vulnerable'. Do not think that is a fair comment.

I would however say that you could argue the Haibikes, Gepida, AVE (some AVE models) positioning of the motor/electrionics is more aesthetically pleasing but this is very much in the eye of the beholder. However we are all aware of the case where a members Haibike frame broke and support was far from forthcoming. Hopefully this is no longer an issue with Raleigh distributing in the UK.

 

[RobF]

a members Haibike frame broke and support was far from forthcoming

Don't mention the broken Haibike frame, I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

I am sure you are right just did not want the misconception that there are a string of customers who have a damaged motor due to some positioning, not something I have heard of and I am sure German pedelec would be filled with complaints otherwise. I try and give honest information I am even a closet Storck fan yet I do not sell them, also like the look of the Gepida.

 

[SRS]

Martin most Bosch bikes have the motor positioned in this way. Yet no reports of any damage and would disagree they are 'very vulnerable'. Do not think that is a fair comment.

I would however say that you could argue the Haibikes, Gepida, AVE (some AVE models) positioning of the motor/electrionics is more aesthetically pleasing but this is very much in the eye of the beholder. However we are all aware of the case where a members Haibike frame broke and support was far from forthcoming. Hopefully this is no longer an issue with Raleigh distributing in the UK.

You are not going to damage the motor on a KTM. It only protrudes 2-3 cm beneath the chainwheel.

If on the rare chance that you should drop it on a rock, the motor casing could be replaced or repaired.

With an inverted motor, it would be the frame wrecked. How much to replace this?

At the end of the day, if you are bunny hopping over rocks, you'd need a 12kg bike not a 20kg'er.

If it does the job, why pay £100's more?

 

[banbury frank]

Hi I would suggest fitting a aluminum sump guard like they do on rally cars a plate made off 6 mm thick aluminum plate

Frank

 

[Hanslowmo]

Hi

KTM have a large range of Bosch bikes (see below). There are some really nice ones and a number of members have already got one, so you could always ask for feed back. Our first bike should be arriving this week.

KTM E-Bikes 2013: KTM e-Bikes 2013

(UK RRP list is here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B35vfCMfgy1GOHl5Z1YwekpBN1U/edit?pli=1)

@electrifyingcycles hi, i am very interested in the 2013 ktm electric bicycles and am wondering if you would confirm which of the models you currently have in stock. if its not the full range, how long will it take for you to receive delivery?
@electrifyingcycles also wrt your more recent post, lol its good to know an ebike stockist likes ebikes which he doesnt stock and forums it

hoping you guys see the humurous side but i find it strange some of the forum posts i have read and now stockists one upping each other..the cut-throat world of electric bicycles lol .if offence is taken i apologise but you need to imagine someone on the outside looking in and a conversation about it.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

@electrifyingcycles hi, i am very interested in the 2013 ktm electric bicycles and am wondering if you would confirm which of the models you currently have in stock. if its not the full range, how long will it take for you to receive delivery?
@electrifyingcycles also wrt your more recent post, lol its good to know an ebike stockist likes ebikes which he doesnt stock and forums it

hoping you guys see the humurous side but i find it strange some of the forum posts i have read and now stockists one upping each other..the cut-throat world of electric bicycles lol .if offence is taken i apologise but you need to imagine someone on the outside looking in and a conversation about it.

I do take offence so do not worry. Not planning to criticise other bikes but did not feel comments were fair so I felt that I had to make a comment. I prefer to let the bikes do the talking and can appreciate other makes we do not sell.

Regarding KTM we have one in stock with three more on the way one of which is sold. They should be with us today. We went mainly for bikes with racks as we have sold most of our high end electric bikes to commuters. Do you know what size frame you need, I can send you a sizing guide if you pm me your email address.

Macina HS 400 (Bosch)
Macina Eight 300 (Bosch)
Macina Cross 400 (Bosch)
ETour (Panasonic hub drive)

Let me know if you need anything else.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

All these bikes have now arrived. In terms of delivery it depends on which model you require, if you let me know which one I am more than happy to check.

All the best David

 

[Storcker]

The problem is that these bikes are expensive and only sell in relatively small quantities so an individual dealer is reluctant to put the bikes in stock,often the importer is also reluctant to stock bikes especially when a range of styles and sizes exist.

Dave
Kudoscycles

We all appreciate the problems faced by importers and dealers but is it any wonder that some buyers come to the conclusion they may as well buy online from Europe.
Whilst the UK sales industry fails to come up with a solution to provide demonstration bikes at all of their dealers throughout the UK then UK wide sales of Ebikes will never take off as in Europe.
We appear to have a situation where the UK industry wants to sell bikes retail but is incapable of funding demonstrators and stock when virtually all consumer products are available online with next day delivery from UK and slightly longer abroad, sometimes cheaper.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Electrifying Cycles -

I was not meaning to slate KTMs at all, was merely pointing out the sort of price points that were involved to answer another forum member's question on here. The KTM was a good example to compare to the Haibike. I have no problem with KTMs; in fact they were on the cards when looking to stock them in

As for the Motor hanging low, I was just pointing out the facts. Many of my customers have picked up on this and mentioned it to me in-store. This is not just me stating this. Regardless of this it is Bosch and as we all know it is a good system!

We all appreciate the problems faced by importers and dealers but is it any wonder that some buyers come to the conclusion they may as well buy online from Europe.
Whilst the UK sales industry fails to come up with a solution to provide demonstration bikes at all of their dealers throughout the UK then UK wide sales of Ebikes will never take off as in Europe.
We appear to have a situation where the UK industry wants to sell bikes retail but is incapable of funding demonstrators and stock when virtually all consumer products are available online with next day delivery from UK and slightly longer abroad, sometimes cheaper.

Storcker, your right it is a struggle.

However with dealers like us and electrifying cycles..
We both have demonstrators in store to try out.
We both offer fast delivery on the bikes.
We are both trying our up most to present ebikes to the UK market.
We both have the bikes in stock ready to go out the door.

Regards

Martin

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Electrifying Cycles -

I was not meaning to slate KTMs at all, was merely pointing out the sort of price points that were involved to answer another forum member's question on here. The KTM was a good example to compare to the Haibike. I have no problem with KTMs; in fact they were on the cards when looking to stock them in

As for the Motor hanging low, I was just pointing out the facts. Many of my customers have picked up on this and mentioned it to me in-store. This is not just me stating this. Regardless of this it is Bosch and as we all know it is a good system!



Storcker, your right it is a struggle.

However with dealers like us and electrifying cycles..
We both have demonstrators in store to try out.
We both offer fast delivery on the bikes.
We are both trying our up most to present ebikes to the UK market.
We both have the bikes in stock ready to go out the door.

Regards

Martin

Martin. The fact is the motor is not very vulnerable as other members have pointed out. Stating this is wrong and not a fact, no evidence to support this! Can we please stick to pointing out the advantages of bikes rather than stating things about other bikes which are not true. This can lead to a tit for a tat my bike is better than yours because it has go faster stripes.

I would suggest people tried both and decided for themselves whether the Haibike is worth the extra cash.

Not trying to be funny as it is great to see other people selling good quality bikes but I think it is important that people do not get the wrong impression.

Like you we looked at Haibike but contacted Raleigh several times and heard nothing so moved onto another brand after all there is no shortage of quality Bosch powered e bikes.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

We all appreciate the problems faced by importers and dealers but is it any wonder that some buyers come to the conclusion they may as well buy online from Europe.
Whilst the UK sales industry fails to come up with a solution to provide demonstration bikes at all of their dealers throughout the UK then UK wide sales of Ebikes will never take off as in Europe.
We appear to have a situation where the UK industry wants to sell bikes retail but is incapable of funding demonstrators and stock when virtually all consumer products are available online with next day delivery from UK and slightly longer abroad, sometimes cheaper.

Regarding demonstrators there are increasingly more shops stocking the bikes like Martin and myself. I have been surprised by the number of people who are prepared to £2000 or more for a good quality electric bike.

The comments I have received go along the lines of I liked x but I loved the Bosch. Should anybody buy a bike without testing off the internet there is a 7 day cooling off period. My advice is to go to as many events as possible. I will hopefully be venturing down to Redbridge to test all the different bikes and events like this are great. Or if you want a day out anyone is welcome to visit us!

I would do the best to match European prices or provide something which is as attractive. For example I doubt any European company would offer the following:
Free collection of the bike in the event of a problem and free loan bike for no extra cost.

 

[wissy]

I wonder how many sales are from those who actually come and test? Is it a majority by a mile?

I know that once I check a bike's geometry it'll be fine and if I tested bikes would never make my mind up. - prefer to do research and buy unseen. Not just with bikes but also did with two of my Previous VW campers.... . Clothes also... Best advise is don't do I agree but I like Internet shopping / distance shopping and used to pitfalls etc. Anyhow.. How many of traders' sales is due to testing compared to unseen? then again it depends also on quality of website design, accessibility, information etc so bear that in mind. Unless it's all a big trade secret?

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Most of our sales are local. However saying that we have shipped a bike as far as Jersey! The issue is that there is a lack of dealers for some high end bikes, there is no end of choice at the lower price point. The market is very much in the development phase while in Germany circa 400,000 e bikes were sold last year compared to 25,000 in UK. There are however certain companies which concentrate more online as well as having a local presence.

 

[wissy]

Wowzer... Really that mich difference in sales? I know loads cycle in n.w. Germany (as many areas in Germany) but being flat in many areas I never even thought they would buy pedelecs... ! Cycle lanes i Germany are blissful....

hardly any local places here ... Smebody on ebay 25 miles away selling kudos cycles and west end cycles in Llandudno and those are main ones I know for north Wales. Could be other small cycle shops who can get in a bike of certain type but not on website, not big selling point etc.... More choice for me in Dublin! only 2 hrs away!

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

The local end tends to be at a lower price point, the risk is lower. We started the same way, if someone rides a cheaper bike and then a more expensive one you can tell the difference. So it is often nice to combine both otherwise they say why would I pay x you can get one for £600 but they only notice the difference by riding both bikes. As time goes by I would expect to see more shops selling high end bikes. It takes distributers and dealers to work together to sell the benefits of bikes, one of the best ways is through events we attend a lot of events as do many other dealers. There are also shows where distributers like KTM, Haibike, AVE Wisper, Kudos will be attending.