2 years on with the TSDZ2....

[vidtek]

Haven't been on here for a while, but thought I'd post a couple of observations.
I fitted this mid motor back in 2019 review here: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/whoosh-crank-drive-tongsheng-kit-review.34071/post-489738, and have been very happy with the kit from Whoosh.
I have only done about 1000 miles or a bit less in that time, health and family issues got in the way - life you know....

The crank nut almost fell off at one stage, it is difficult to get a decent tool to fit it to give it enough welly to really tighten properly with the motor fitted.

The other day I noticed a new clunking noise when under power, it does not sound comforting so after the weekend I'll give Andy at Whoosh a bell and ask his advice.
I suspect it may be the plasic gear giving my issue. I will report back when I know more.
Cheers Tony.

 

[FrodoBaggins]

Haven't been on here for a while, but thought I'd post a couple of observations.
I fitted this mid motor back in 2019 review here: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/whoosh-crank-drive-tongsheng-kit-review.34071/post-489738, and have been very happy with the kit from Whoosh.
I have only done about 1000 miles or a bit less in that time, health and family issues got in the way - life you know....

The crank nut almost fell off at one stage, it is difficult to get a decent tool to fit it to give it enough welly to really tighten properly with the motor fitted.

The other day I noticed a new clunking noise when under power, it does not sound comforting so after the weekend I'll give Andy at Whoosh a bell and ask his advice.
I suspect it may be the plasic gear giving my issue. I will report back when I know more.
Cheers Tony.

Hi Tony
Have you ever put the open source firmware on?
It probably would fix your issue and i guess it mike effect any warranty with Whoosh. But it has totally changed the whole feel of my bike.

It could be interesting for you to see how it feels with a bit of time away from it

 

[vidtek]

Frodo- I had thought about it, and I think my warranty has probably run out by now. I'll ask Andy and see what he says.

 

[Woosh]

Hi Tony
Have you ever put the open source firmware on?
It probably would fix your issue and i guess it mike effect any warranty with Whoosh. But it has totally changed the whole feel of my bike.

It could be interesting for you to see how it feels with a bit of time away from it

No. I've seen the video you uploaded.
It sounds like the blue gear slipping.
If it is it, we have spares.

 

[Woosh]

Andy has a finer hearing than mine. He suggested it could be the chain skipping on the cassette.
BTW, the clunk happens also when the motor is off.
The simple test is to run it on different gears.
If the slippage happens only on some gears then check for chain skipping.
Could you locate the source of the sound? or post the video here?

 

[vidtek]

Andy-Thanks for reply, the clunk only occurs with pedal or throttle pressure. With the battery removed it still does it when I pedal. Here is the link: https://mega.nz/file/dpRjwCJK#ST_MjsbeuoEqZgvNC-SgyXc0rAiufaFOiLAlxV156oY
Cheers Tony

 

[Woosh]

Hi Tony,

There are two clutches in the motor, the first is a blue plastic one linking the motor's spindle to the chainring, the second on the bottom bracket linking the cranks to the chainring.
1. If it clunks when the motor runs on throttle without pedalling, then the first clutch is suspect because it is engaged, not the second.
2. If it clunks when you ride without power, then the first clutch is disengaged, the second is engaged.
3. If it clunks on power both with pedalling and on throttle but only in some gears, then the chain may be too elongated or some of the cogs on the cassette may be worn out.
Can you confirm any of these 3 hypotheses?

Tony

 

[vidtek]

OK Just got this; it's dark now, I'll check in the AM and get back to you. It was a new cassette less than 600 miles ago.

 

[vidtek]

I just had another inspection and test ride minus battery. I found it still can occur when freewheeling. It makes no difference which gear I'm in. The thing is, it is so intermittent, sometimes it does it all the time then will stop for a few hundred yards. When it happens I can feel the clunk through my seat post.
There is a small (really tiny) amount of play in the right crank arm, unless I was looking for it I would not have noticed at all. So small it doesn't show up on video, but I can just feel it. One other thing I noticed, sometimes when maneuvering the bike backwards the chain judders slightly, it doesn't happen always, but it does occur.

Not much help is it?

Tony.

 

[Woosh]

the longest step is always the correct diagnosis and we'll get there.

It makes no difference which gear I'm in.

That's a good point. We can exclude the cassette but still can't eliminate the freehub body where the pawls are.

We have now to reduce the list of suspects:
- blue gear
- pedalling clutch
- elongated chain
- freehub body

To test the blue gear:
find the steepest road you can climb with the throttle. If the blue gear is faulty, it will clunk continuously.

To test the pedalling clutch:
Squeeze both brakes and push very hard on each pedal in turn. If the pedaling clutch is faulty, the cranks will slip so be careful with this test.

To check the chain: measure the length of 10 links.

There is a small (really tiny) amount of play in the right crank arm

that's normal with the TSDZ2. The 3 ballbearings that are mounted on the bottom bracket axle are held in place with circlips, so they can move about 1mm, up to may be 2mm. The play is inconsequential but many of us don't expect it until you open the motor to have a look.
You can see one of the circlips in this picture (the other circlip is on the other side, behind the pedal sensor):

One other thing I noticed, sometimes when maneuvering the bike backwards the chain judders slightly, it doesn't happen always, but it does occur.

that's also normal. When you move the bike backward, the chain ring moves and engages the blue clutch, so you'll feel the resistance.

 

[vidtek]

It makes no difference which gear I'm in.

That's a good point. We can exclude the cassette but still can't eliminate the freehub body where the pawls are.

Can you elaborate on this - please excuse my ignorance. To what do you refer to as "pawls". What is their function and where situated?

The bike was fitted with new brakes, cables, tyres, chain and cassette when I bought it from the bike shop two years ago. I have done less than 1000 miles since I bought it. Is the chain likely to have elongated since then?

 

[vidtek]

I have taken a couple more videos https://mega.nz/file/slwU1BrQ#sYLEgc8_uVbBC_xVmQc0mW4XQY2rLTIrXqBaapHUhHM

and https://mega.nz/file/UthmEBRL#fy1sGAkDWrgqF8Ozl7Y22Dpb5zPyW6lX-QNG8V2CUtE

Sorry about the wind noise, but it gives you and idea of the loudness of the clunk.

I tried this:
To test the pedalling clutch:
Squeeze both brakes and push very hard on each pedal in turn. If the pedaling clutch is faulty, the cranks will slip so be careful with this test.

No slippage even with my full weight on the pedal.

 

[vfr400]

As always, you guys show everything except what's important. In this case it was your feet. In the couple of glimpses I got, it appeared that there were 2 clicks 180 deg apart in the same rotational position of the pedals each time. Is that correct?

 

[Woosh]

I have taken a couple more videos https://mega.nz/file/slwU1BrQ#sYLEgc8_uVbBC_xVmQc0mW4XQY2rLTIrXqBaapHUhHM

and https://mega.nz/file/UthmEBRL#fy1sGAkDWrgqF8Ozl7Y22Dpb5zPyW6lX-QNG8V2CUtE

Sorry about the wind noise, but it gives you and idea of the loudness of the clunk.

I tried this:
To test the pedalling clutch:
Squeeze both brakes and push very hard on each pedal in turn. If the pedaling clutch is faulty, the cranks will slip so be careful with this test.

No slippage even with my full weight on the pedal.

Tony, could you tighten the left crank bolt really well just to eliminate it from the list of suspects?
You'll need a long 8mm allen key for this. Small allen keys don't have enough torque, you need 45-50NM, 345 inch-pounds.

 

[vidtek]

As always, you guys show everything except what's important. In this case it was your feet. In the couple of glimpses I got, it appeared that there were 2 clicks 180 deg apart in the same rotational position of the pedals each time. Is that correct?

Hey, it's hard enough for this old fart to stay upright, let alone cycle one-handed filming with my 'phone and changing gears and pedalling all at the same time. A circus performer I ain't......

 

[vidtek]

Tony, could you tighten the left crank bolt really well just to eliminate it from the list of suspects?
You'll need a long 8mm allen key for this. Small allen keys don't have enough torque, you need 45-50NM, 345 inch-pounds.

I have a set of really heavy duty allen keys that are operated by a 1/3 inch socket. I can get plenty of wellie on that especially with an extension tommy bar. My only concern is I could snap off the bolt with it.....

 

[Woosh]

I have a set of really heavy duty allen keys that are operated by a 1/3 inch socket. I can get plenty of wellie on that especially with an extension tommy bar. My only concern is I could snap off the bolt with it.....

ha ha.. don't overtighten or you will not be able to remove the cranks later. Half a turn would probably be enough after 2 years.

 

[vidtek]

OK so I really put some pressure on it with my large allen key set. 8mm and paired with a 1/2" (not1/3" as I previously said) socket and extension bar see piccies.




Here is the 10 link chain measurement...

Unfortunately still clunking.....

The last test you requested is the steep hill one, our nearest big hill is Richmond Hill and it's a fair distance away-I'll get back to you on that one.

Tony .....still clunking along

 

[Woosh]

10 links of half inch: your caliper shows 12.33cm. It should be 12.7mm.
If it's not more than 12.7mm then the chain is not stretched.
You can always measure from centre of link pin to centre of link pin for better accuracy.
Let's wait for the result of the blue gear test.

 

[vidtek]

OK blue gear test a dismal failure as you will see in the posted videos: https://mega.nz/folder/1wp3WahQ#pQaxqmgpBaapvQyJQw7cgw

I hope you have plenty of time...sit down with a cool beer and have a good laugh at my expense.....

Cheers Tony.