11ah Water Bottle Battery Question

[KirstinS]

Morning all

So a few months back these were not available - only 9ah which is what I have. Mine has panasonic cells which i thought were ok - turns out not so great. Capacity is fine but suffers from pretty bad voltage sag. In part becuse its 9ah (thanks to D8veh for explianing why that is) but I suspect the C rating is not good enough either

So I'm out to get a 11ah battery and hopefully a small solder shunt mod as well (no way can current battery cope with it - it will be killed I suspect)

These things are all over the internet, ebay, various direct-from-china places. What I cant seem to find out is where I can get one with the requiste performing cells inside (I undertand Samsung* are very good for example). I have sent a few emails but only recieved well meaning but unhelpful Chinglish responses so far. So, to finally get to the point, does anyone have any insight as to where I can get a generic 11ah water bottle battery that is filled with decent cells ? Many thanks Kirstin * I was most amused to see that Apple have been ordered to run adverts in national press following the loss of court case ! I love my macbook pro, iphone and wifes ipad but I detest the way they now behave a company - on everything from treatment of suppliers, foxconn, dodgy deals re EPEAT etc

 

[morphix]

Morning all
* I was most amused to see that Apple have been ordered to run adverts in national press following the loss of court case ! I love my macbook pro, iphone and wifes ipad but I detest the way they now behave a company - on everything from treatment of suppliers, foxconn, dodgy deals re EPEAT etc

Me too! That's sensible British justice for you! In the US it seems Apple has the judges on their payroll or courts favourable to them.. I think that $1 billion compensation order to Apple from Samsung was outrageous miscarriage of justice and the ban on Samsung smartphone sales and imports in US was even more outrageous.. so much for the land of the free where consumers are told by courts what they can and cannot buy, simply because it's rectangular and has round corners

Apple may try and appeal the UK courts decision at the Supreme Court, money is not an issue for them so I guess they will because that will be most embarrassing for Apple having to print that which basically shouts "we lied/lost our case" on all their adverts *and* on the website!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's these two. Be careful of the pictures in the first one because they show different batteries. I think the 12aH one is a different shape to yours, so chech that you have enough room for it. See the size.

The second one looks promising. As far as I can see, it's the same size and shape as yours and has the same nunber and configuration of cells - just different cells. 18amps continuous should be enough. You have to be careful with these Chinese sellers because they often have info from other products, so there's always something that doesn't add up - like the bit about the polyswitch cutting off at a current of 6.5aH. You could ask him what that means, but I'd be surprised if you get a sensible answer.

the third one is the same as the second, and I just noticed that it'll do 45amps for 10 secs, but still has that polyswitch?
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[Old_Dave]

polyswitch cutting off at a current of 6.5aH.

Hmmmmmmm.....

Polyswitches are an 'autoreset' fuse and will cut out at an over load current quicker than a normal fuse

The way they reset is 1.. remove the fault / reason for over load and also 2.. remove the supply voltage

IMHO 6.5A is rather on the low side and I'm doubting that its a good use of the device in this circumstance.

 

[jackhandy]

I'm obviously misunderstanding something here - not an unusual happenstance

The 2nd battery looks to be ideal: 30a max. CONTINUOUS discharge, but is it really fitted with a protective cutout that trips @ 6.5a?

Even the missus' powabyke pulls anything upto 17 amps on a steep hill.

 

[KirstinS]

I'm obviously misunderstanding something here - not an unusual happenstance

The 2nd battery looks to be ideal: 30a max. CONTINUOUS discharge, but is it really fitted with a protective cutout that trips @ 6.5a?

Even the missus' powabyke pulls anything upto 17 amps on a steep hill.

Well, you hit the nail on head (along with d8veh and old dave) re these chinese sellers. I'm just not happy to spend that amount of money when, in reality, I cannot rely on anything very much written in the advert.

IT does say 30a continous in the short form spec. A little further down is the long foprm spec which reads

Standard discharge 9A
Maximum continuous 18A
Maximum (30s) 36A
Maximum (10s) 45A
Cut-off voltage 30V


So apart from the fact its a battery, bottle shaped and 36v nominal I've got zero faith in the rest of it !

Thats not to say I dont appreciate the help. I think I just need to wait until a reputable supplier starts stocking them. John @ Cyclzee - I'm looking at you (given your post a few months back)

 

[Steve Neville]

I've been looking for a bottle battery to compliment the rectangular flat rack type battery I have. As I use a mountain bike for mainly off road type usage I've put this in a small rucksack and lengthened the wire. 36V 10 AH is enough for 20 miles of mixed off-roading on a mixture of trails and hills. The ride home on a flat battery is not so good! A bottle 36V 6 AH would be ideal as a reserve. I've seen some for sale but they are not generally available from electric bike shops. It would appear that they give 10 to 12 miles which is useful. Seen one on Amazon and also the Clean energy centre in Wales but can't seem to contact the latter.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't know what you're worrying about and why you want to pick on one insignificant comment in the advert. They're most likely honorable guys selling a decent product, which is just what you asked for. The text says:
"Installed polyswitch will cut off power if battery discharge current more than 6.6Ah"
which is clearly nonsense and a mistake. Current is amps not aH. Maybe it's to prevent over-charging. Who knows? All you have to do is ask him, so I've sent him a question on you behalf.

If you want to buy a better bottle battery than you already have. You have to buy the Oxydrive one which is about £450., or recell your own with Panasonic CGR18560CH cells (not CGR18650CG).

 

[KirstinS]

I feel you might be somehow insinuating something ?

Well I guess the answer is, when i am spending a big chunk of cash for me, i just like to know what I'm buying as its central to the result I'm after.

I completely take on board what you said in another post - the cases are generic , it's what's inside that counts. It's nothing personal against the seller. Just their advert is conflicting in a few key places and I can't be sure what's Inside

Like I said i do apprecciate your help on this

 

[Steve Neville]

I've just converted my Claud Butler Cape Wrath with an Alien kit. I've put the battery in a rucksac and ditched the heavy carrier. The emphasis is for off road capability. The controller goes in a small bag under the saddle. In order to extend the range I too have looked for a bottle battery. Alien Ocean dont supply them. The Cleanenergycentre.org.uk advertise them but to date I can't get in contact. Ads on Amazon and eBay but somehow I don't quite trust them. If I knew the procedures I'd import 10 from China and flog them but there are sure to be VAT and import duty pitfalls plus guarantees to contend with

 

[Cyclezee]

Thats not to say I dont appreciate the help. I think I just need to wait until a reputable supplier starts stocking them. John @ Cyclzee - I'm looking at you (given your post a few months back)

Hi Kirstin,

We are not ready to start retailing the bottle battery yet, I did get one for testing and as soon as I posted about it, a kit customer asked if he could have it.

I was somewhat reluctant to part with it not having had a chance to use it myself, but in the end I did.

The battery seems to be performing well, but the charger failed after a fairly short period of time and had to be replaced. From what I understand it is going well now.

Although the case and charger are the usual generic Chinese type, the cells and BMS are higher quality which makes them more expensive than those from other sources. £475 including charger and we give a 2 year warranty as with all our batteries.

Recently, I got a second one of these which I intend to use myself......when I get round to it.

The current situation is that before getting any more, I would like to see some changes, an improved charger and a different colour case.

Another issue which affects batteries is we can no longer get them shipped by TNT airfreight 6 at a time due to regulations having tightened up. Although eZee have all the correct documentation, labeling and packaging, it is just too expensive.

Effectively this put an end to my JIT (just in time) policy of holding minimum stock levels and the ability to have deliveries in less than a week.

All our batteries will now come by sea, which although it is cheaper takes considerably longer and will have to be sent along with other items to make a shipment worthwhile.

Regards,

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I've just converted my Claud Butler Cape Wrath with an Alien kit. I've put the battery in a rucksac and ditched the heavy carrier. The emphasis is for off road capability. The controller goes in a small bag under the saddle. In order to extend the range I too have looked for a bottle battery. Alien Ocean dont supply them. The Cleanenergycentre.org.uk advertise them but to date I can't get in contact. Ads on Amazon and eBay but somehow I don't quite trust them. If I knew the procedures I'd import 10 from China and flog them but there are sure to be VAT and import duty pitfalls plus guarantees to contend with

You can save a bit more weight and size by taking the battery out of its aluminium case and wrapping it in gaffa tape instead. If you're very lucky, like with the Panasonic rack batteries, the actual cells are in a plastic case inside the aluminium case, so you can get to about half the size.

Which Alien kit did you get? If it's the 350w one, you need a high discharge rate battery like the one I showed above. The normal bottle batteries will cut out as soon as you apply any significant load.

 

[KirstinS]

Thanks for the update there John

Well let me know if , once you've tested, you feel like parting it with it ! Otherwise not doubt you let us know as and when you are happy to start selling in general

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Kirstin,

I will let you know about the battery, but I really want to try it myself and even thought about doing today but I just don't have the time, maybe next weekend if we get some decent weather.

We a have a kit and battery shipment leaving the factory tomorrow which could be the last for 2012, so it will be into 2013 before we have more of the bottle type.

 

[KirstinS]

John, I'm not in any rush, was not intending to make any purchase until end of November , just getting my research done!