1-1-2016 Today's Change in the Law.

[flecc]

I don't want a hand throttle or start assist but I am suspicious of eu regs that affect cheaper Chinese imports, if a large German manufacturer built motors and systems with hand throttles you can bet your bottom dollar that hand throttles would be accommodated in the eu regs.

The EU law is too old for that to be a cause, it followed Japanese law. When the EU laws were introduced there were no e-bike makers in Germany, just one motor producer. The Chinese had little representation either, the dominant influences were the Japanese pedelecs, particularly Yamaha and Panasonic.
.

 

[JuicyBike]

I know the document you mean, it was Guidance issued in December 2015 and in section 1, subsection 1.2 they state there's an exemption for start up assistance. Unfortunately they've issued several guideline documents and information sheets in the last few months and that is the only one stating this.

They have issued guidance to the BA since a meeting in January which indicated that when they spell things out properly the "Start Assist" function of throttles would be acceptable, but this has still got no further than guidance to manufacturers and retailers.
"Cycles where power can be obtained even when the rider is not pedalling (twist and go). Under European law these cycles are required to obtain EU or domestic type approval. There is however an exemption for cycles where power is available only up to 6 km/h without pedalling, to help start-up, and these are exempt from type approval."

 

[Simon Rafferty]

Does anyone know how or where you apply for type (individual) approval?

The Govt web site implies it's at the same centres as carry out IVA (Individual Vehicle Approval) tests - but on contacting my most local one, they knew nothing about it nor had any regulations to test an electric bike against.
They would test a bicycle as a Moped / Motorcycle.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/individual-vehicle-approval

My interest is in having a twist throttle, not to have more than 250W or 15.5mph. PAS is all very well, but they add cost, complexity and IMHO are not as nice to ride!

 

[brightonebikes]

A guy over the road from me imported an electric scooter from the states. He had to take it to our neatest centre on the south coast of England in Southampton, he was back and forth a number of times for really silly little things, having to hire a van each time. He said it wasn't an easy process and lots of hoops to jump through. Thorn now finally approved for use on uk roads he's struggling to find decent insurance quotes. An expensive and time consuming process in his experience.
Darren

 

[anotherkiwi]

PAS is all very well, but they add cost, complexity and IMHO are not as nice to ride!

???? scratching my head here.

PAS is cheap when compared to a torque sensor less than £4 for the luxury 12 magnet version I just installed.

Complexity as in take left crank off, unscrew BB ring, fit PAS sensor rescrew BB ring, slide PAS disk on and refit crank. Plug PAS wire into controller. In my case with cheap steel plastic coated crank and cheap BB with plastic ring it was an adventure but with a normal quality bike it can be done in 10 minutes (I did it in that time a couple of weeks ago).

Disclaimer: I haven't ridden a torque sensor bike yet. Nice to ride depends on what type of controller you have - I have one of the newer torque sensor emulation controllers. And with the 12 magnet disk I just mounted my bike is as smooth as silk and zips away after just a quarter turn of the crank.

And you have to have either PAS or a torque sensor (some bikes have both) or else it isn't a pedelec. If you have a throttle only it is an e-bike AKA moped...

 

[flecc]

Does anyone know how or where you apply for type (individual) approval?

You can't at present, as you were told, there's only the unsuitable motor vehicle classes.

It's intended that the class for type approving throttle equipped pedelecs will be in place for January 2018. Meanwhile existing throttle equipped bikes bought from January 2016 to that intended date will be permitted anyway. Older throttle equipped pedelecs have "grandfather rights" for the duration of their life.
.

 

[Mutt]

Isn't a throttle only bike legal if it was manufactured in 2015?

 

[flecc]

Isn't a throttle only bike legal if it was manufactured in 2015?

Yes it is, it has "grandfather rights", since although the pedelec only law came into effect 6th April 2015, a period of grace was allowed to sell existing stocks. It can continue in legal use for life.
.

 

[Mutt]

That's reassuring, even though I'm not a grandfather yet!

 

[flecc]

That's reassuring, even though I'm not a grandfather yet!

Grandfather rights was an expression coined by the DfT to describe this circumstance.

Even more inaccurate for female riders!
.

 

[Simon Rafferty]

???? scratching my head here.

Cadence sensors, while they are cheap and comply with the law, IMHO do not give a good 'experience', regardless of the software behind them as they measure the wrong thing.

I appreciate that if you buy a ready made system, it adds little complexity. If you want to build your own, it does.

My interest in developing this is that I damaged both knees in a fall from height and while I can pedal, I cannot maintain a constant cadence or torque. I found it made a commercial cadence based PAS 'bunny hop'.

I've done a lot of development on torque sensors. They started with force sensors coupled to chain rollers, evolved to load cells measuring the flex in the frame and the best so far measures the stretch in the chain using a pair of inductive pickups and measures the differential phase of the chain rollers passing the sensors. A torque sensor with decent software genuinely flattens the hills to the point that you don't notice the hills or electric assist is there.

For me, the best experience though comes from a twist throttle. While my last build may have grandfather rights, my current build may not and I have to investigate the alternatives. One of which is a twist-n-go + IVA test.

 

[trex]

for people with dodgy knees, the best torque sensor is the thumb throttle.
Shame it's got to go.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Copy from another thread I just posted:

4.2.4.3
Start up assistance mode
4.2.4.3.1
Requirements
EPAC can be equipped with a start up assistance mode up to 6 km/h designed speed or lower values as specified by the manufacturer. Unauthorized use shall be prevented.
This mode shall be activated by the voluntary and maintained action of the user either when riding without pedalling or when the user is pushing the cycle.

Yep this is from EN 15194

 

[flecc]

For me, the best experience though comes from a twist throttle. While my last build may have grandfather rights, my current build may not and I have to investigate the alternatives. One of which is a twist-n-go + IVA test.

I think the way things are with the law and the fact that we won't get any method of throttle-pedelec type approval before January 2018, any new pedelec or kit bike put into use meanwhile is likely to be treated as having grandfather rights. The almost invisible law enforcement on this issue makes this acceptance even more likely.

It should only be necessary to ensure one has proof of when the throttle-pedelec first went into service.

Even if type approval becomes necessary, current indications are that the requirements will be minimal, at present only indicated as being equipped with stand lights, i.e. still lit when the bike comes to a standstill on the road.
.

 

[EddieH]

I was thinking more on the lines of some sort of dispesation scheme for orange badge or medical certificate holders.
I'd like to think that if or when I'm unable to pedal far that something as seemingly simple as above would have been implemented.

They are Blue badges now.

 

[brightonebikes]

Beautifully succinct. It's becoming clear this question is asked a lot and is explained in many different ways, but this summaries the best.

 

[flecc]

They are Blue badges now.

So much for that advertising slogan:

"The future's bright – the future's Orange"
.

 

[SRS]

They are Blue badges now.

Thanks for the update. Something to do with the tories I guess.

 

[rooel]

Anyone else agree with my interpretation of grandfather rights? I have two folders to each of which I fitted a 250 watt kit with twist and go throttle prior to 01 01 2016. They are therfore still legal to ride on public roads. However what about ongoing maintenance? My commonsense interpretation of these rights is that any and every part (whether mechanical such as brake cables and blocks or electrical such as the motor wheel or the throttle) can be replaced for ever without nullifying the grandfather rights.

With regard to enforcement I have read often enough on this forum that the police are unlikely to be interested. However if a serious incident occurs both the police and insurance companies will take a very close interest in the technical condition and configuration of the bike, and if it is "illegal" in any way the former will charge the cyclist under the appropriate road traffic legislation. And the cyclist's insurance company will refuse to pay any compensation which may be due to the victim and which would otherwise be covered under the cyclist's public liability insurance

 

[vfr400]

How many cases do you hear of police prosecuting or insurance not paying out because people didn't have reflectors front and rear or lights that complied with the British standard or equivalent? Do you have those things on your bike when you ride between sunset and sunrise.?