£1000 cycle 2 work halfords crappy voucher

[Bonzo Banana]

Rubbish yourself, The Carrera Crossfire is plagued with problems just look at the amount of threads about cut outs on this site alone. I have owned both a Crossfuse and a Crossfire and the latter was nothing but trouble, while the Bosch motor in the Crossfuse has been faultless in over 2500 miles.

You only have to look on youtube to see many crossfires and subways being used as courier ebikes. These couriers are racking up huge miles, sometimes over 100 miles a day and working 7 days a week although admittedly one only does it evenings and weekends but the Suntour system seems to be a very popular choice as are hub motors in general for their simplicity and reliability. You never hear of any courier stupid enough to use a Bosch motor, even if the motor kept working you would have all the additional chain wear to deal with. Your Bosch experience may be positive but that doesn't mean you can extrapolate it so it applies universally. Hub motors hugely outsell mid-drive but mid-drive problems dominate forums I would say. I've even read the suggestion that if you use an e-mountain bike with a Bosch motor keep it exclusively for off-road use and get a hub motor ebike for a general purpose ebike because of the far lower running costs and greater reliability. You only have to look at the internals of such motors to understand why hub motors are so much more reliable. Yes the Suntour system has a few issues but many of those seemed to be how the torque sensor and cables were fitted to the Carrera bikes and for those with problems the solutions now we understand them aren't that difficult or expensive. The Bosch motors are a premium motor both expensive to buy and maintain but with excellent feel and performance. It's like comparing a reliable Toyota Corolla with a BMW performance car. The Corolla will just keep working and cost very little, the BMW will fail frequently and need expensive repairs and many components just need far more frequent replacement.

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[Amoto65]

You only have to look on youtube to see many crossfires and subways being used as courier ebikes.

And you only have to look on this forum to see how many people have had problems with the above models( more than any other type of hub motor) There are plenty of couriers using Carrera Crossfuse bikes with the Bosch motor on youtube as well, The opinions I have given are based on personal experience having owned a Crossfuse and 2 Crossfires ( which were returned due to cutouts ) as for price the Crossfuse was £150 more expensive than the Crossfire when I bought it, so not expensive.

 

[cyclebuddy]

The opinions I have given are based on personal experience having owned a Crossfuse and 2 Crossfires ( which were returned due to cutouts ) as for price the Crossfuse was £150 more expensive than the Crossfire when I bought it, so not expensive.

Your experience isn't really relevant anymore given Halfords totally revamped the Crossfire in 2019 with new frame, new battery, new controller, revised torque sensor and (some say) a newer motor version. You say both your returned Crossfires dated from 2017 - that's not really the same e-bike at all.

And the Crossfire today is £1399. The Crossfuse today is £1899. That is for many a substantial £500 difference, and puts the Crossfuse firmly into the "premium brand" Cube/Scott etc territory. 3 years is a long time in the e-bike world and much has changed.

 

[vfr400]

You only have to look on youtube to see many crossfires and subways being used as courier ebikes.

I just looked on Youtube for reviews of the Carrera ebikes from people that had used them for a length of time. I found two videos. Both mentioned the cut-outs. One had his and hers bikes, so that was actually three. All three owners were still running there bikes and living with the cut-outs. Three out of three still maintains the 100% record.

I only looked at one of your video links. The guy said that he's changing his Carrera for another brand shortly!

10:00 on this one:

7:00 here:

 

[cyclebuddy]

And you can tell just from the old Phylion batteries, both those videos relate to the old pre-2019 Crossfire versions. The question is how reliable are the newer ones (other than the fickle charging connector, which has now been resolved)?

 

[vfr400]

And you can tell just from the old Phylion batteries, both those videos relate to the old pre-2019 Crossfire versions. The question is how reliable are the newer ones (other than the fickle charging connector, which has now been resolved)?

Look at the comments in this one. The torque sensor itself hasn't changed. Some of the comments mention problems with the new version. It seems that there are two problems. I have first hand experience of both of them. Firstly, an anti-rotation lug breaks off, so the sensor rotates with the crank and pulls the wires out. Secondly, water and dirt get in and prevent the optics from working:

 

[Amoto65]

Your experience isn't really relevant anymore given Halfords totally revamped the Crossfire in 2019 with new frame, new battery, new controller, revised torque sensor and (some say) a newer motor version. You say both your returned Crossfires dated from 2017 - that's not really the same e-bike at all.

Do you own a new version of the Crossfire so you can make an informed opinion about their reliability? my opinions are based on having actually owning the bikes I comment on ie Carrera Crossfuse,Crossfirex2, Wisper 905se, Juicy Click, Viking Folder and Haibike Hardseven as oppose to youtube videos and false reviews on dealers sites and in some peoples cases a pathological hatred of all things Bosch.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Your Crossfire experience is with the older model; it's not relevant to the revamped post-2019 one - the model you would buy today. Just looking at the current 2020 version, anyone can see it's a very different animal to the 2017 version with the changed frame, battery, and controller etc. The cut-out issue that plagued the old also doesn't seem to persist in the current version. All I'm asking is where are the documented problems relevant to the current re-vamped Crossfire... or anything relevant to the current Suntour system?

Like the Bosch motors of 2020, things have progressed markedly since 2017.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

And you only have to look on this forum to see how many people have had problems with the above models( more than any other type of hub motor) There are plenty of couriers using Carrera Crossfuse bikes with the Bosch motor on youtube as well, The opinions I have given are based on personal experience having owned a Crossfuse and 2 Crossfires ( which were returned due to cutouts ) as for price the Crossfuse was £150 more expensive than the Crossfire when I bought it, so not expensive.

Yes your personal experience is the key point, however unreliable something is there are always people that have good experience of that product. If something has a 90% failure rate that is still 1 in 10 who will have no problems and have a positive experience. When people say their car is reliable so buy it I would always look at somewhere like the reliability index to get a true picture as the experiences of one person on their own is often not helpful at all. I've had products that have been reliable despite the greater evidence against them but don't insist they are reliable because of my singular experience because that would be ridiculous I just think myself lucky. If you look inside a Bosch ebike motor its a relatively small motor using a lot of plastic/nylon cogs and sometimes belts to increase torque it also has the power of the cyclist going through the same internals with lots of physical wear points on what are very small components. There are no mysteries why there are problems and it needs more frequent maintenance and Bosch as a company restrict access to spares and charge very high prices for service items and parts which are normally only fittable by an authorised Bosch repair agent. It's a recipe for extremely poor value even if the riding experience is excellent while it works.

However I totally accept using Bosch ebike motors on a casual bike may not bring up the frequency of issues as when used off-road but then the advantages of mid-drive motors are massively diminished when used on the road.

Premium ebikes are incredibly wasteful though, often they have the shortest life, when mid-drive motors fail and are uneconomic to repair often the bike is just scrap as the frame is designed around the motor that is fitted so there is a lot of wastage. In contrast hub motor bikes are often very easy to repair. Even if the frame fails you can often replace the frame with any frame of your choice and hub motors and batteries can be replaced easily at the end of life. Obviously not true of the smaller folding ebikes with frames designed around the battery, internal storage etc but still a huge amount of hub bikes can have a very long life and even be downgraded to a standard bike. Contrast the crossfire and crossfuse in that regards the Crossfire could still be in use in 15 years up until fatigue of the frame makes it too weak but the Crossfuse will likely be scrapped within 6 years even for those who use it very lightly. They are disposable bikes despite their higher cost.

 

[vfr400]

Your Crossfire experience is with the older model; it's not relevant to the revamped post-2019 one - the model you would buy today. Just looking at the current 2020 version, anyone can see it's a very different animal to the 2017 version with the changed frame, battery, and controller etc. The cut-out issue that plagued the old also doesn't seem to persist in the current version. All I'm asking is where are the documented problems relevant to the current re-vamped Crossfire... or anything relevant to the current Suntour system?

Like the Bosch motors of 2020, things have progressed markedly since 2017.

It's the same torque sensor!

 

[cyclebuddy]

It's the same torque sensor!

So you're suggesting that because that one component appears unaltered, all the well-documented problems of the 2017 Crossfire remain with the current, substantially changed 2020 one?

 

[Amoto65]

Contrast the crossfire and crossfuse in that regards the Crossfire could still be in use in 15 years up until fatigue of the frame makes it too weak but the Crossfuse will likely be scrapped within 6 years even for those who use it very lightly.

Possibly so, however I use my bikes at the rate of over 2000 miles a year so not that lightly and while I have nothing but praise for certain hub motors i.e. Wisper 905se, Juicy, they cannot match the climbing ability of a crank motor around the Peak District and that applies both to Bosch and Yamaha motors.

 

[vfr400]

So you're suggesting that because that one component appears unaltered, all the well-documented problems of the 2017 Crossfire remain with the current, substantially changed 2020 one?

My simple logic says that if the torque sensor is the same, then all the problems associated with it will carry over. Is there something wrong with that logic?

carrera torque sensor "e21" - Google Search

 

[cyclebuddy]

As I recall, the optical torque sensor becoming dirty or the odd lug breaking was never the real issue. The frequent cut-outs of the old model were attributed variously to a loose motor connector (cable tie fix), a loose battery (bungee cord fix), dirty display contacts, or an oversensitive thermal sensor. IIRC, nobody got to the bottom of it. Your opinion (3/12/19) was:

"There were several causes for the cut-outs, but the main one seems to be an over-sensitive sensor in the battery, which cannot be fixed by DIY."

You also suggested:

"There's also the problem with the optical torque sensor getting dirty, but the new chainwheel looks different, so maybe they fixed it with a different design."

Maybe with hindsight they didn't change the torque sensor. But there are currently 60 reviews of the current Crossfire model: A quick scan tells of just one case of a power cut-out issue, a water in battery contacts issue, and one non-specified motor problem. Those problems are as infrequent and as random as any other e-bike. No torque sensor issues or frequent cut-out problems of the old model mentioned at all (that I could see).

The overwhelming majority of owners do seem very happy with their current model Crossfire e-bikes.

Unless the OP is considering buying the old model, I just don't see how comments relating to that old model are relevant to the current 2020 one when so much has since been changed... and, it seems, reliability much improved. As you said:

"The Crossfire E was a fantastic bike when it worked. I hope it's now fixed".

 

[vfr400]

As I recall, the optical torque sensor becoming dirty or the odd lug breaking was never the real issue. The frequent cut-outs of the old model were attributed variously to a loose motor connector (cable tie fix), a loose battery (bungee cord fix), dirty display contacts, or an oversensitive thermal sensor. IIRC, nobody got to the bottom of it. Your opinion (3/12/19) was:

"There were several causes for the cut-outs, but the main one seems to be an over-sensitive sensor in the battery, which cannot be fixed by DIY."

You also suggested:

"There's also the problem with the optical torque sensor getting dirty, but the new chainwheel looks different, so maybe they fixed it with a different design."

Maybe with hindsight they didn't change the torque sensor. But there are currently 60 reviews of the current Crossfire model: A quick scan tells of just one case of a power cut-out issue, a water in battery contacts issue, and one non-specified motor problem. Those problems are as infrequent and as random as any other e-bike. No torque sensor issues or frequent cut-out problems of the old model mentioned at all (that I could see).

The overwhelming majority of owners do seem very happy with their current model Crossfire e-bikes.

Unless the OP is considering buying the old model, I just don't see how comments relating to that old model are relevant to the current 2020 one when so much has since been changed... and, it seems, reliability much improved. As you said:

"The Crossfire E was a fantastic bike when it worked. I hope it's now fixed".

Do you work for Halfords or have a commercial interest in these bikes?

 

[cyclebuddy]

Do you work for Halfords or have a commercial interest in these bikes?

You accused me of having some vested interest in Ebco e-bikes too when I disagreed with you about the relatively unknown (in this country) TranzX M16 mid-drive motor (and hub vs mid-drive motors generally).

No involvement in bikes, e-bikes, sales, manufacture or distribution. I'm just interested in understanding if Halfords/Suntour have cured the well documented failures of the old model. The lack of recent complaints and the many positive 2020 model owner reviews suggest they probably have, but nobody seems to have a definitive answer.

 

[vfr400]

You accused me

Asking you if you have a commercial interest or asking if you work for a company is not an accusation. It's a question.

Stating that somebody accused you is an accusation - and when they didn't actually do it, it's a false one that would normally warrant an apology!

 

[Tazlor]

Hi after lots of badgering our work has singed up to cycle to work, they are totally clueless so signed up to halfords/tredz scheme. The max voucher I could get was £1000. I'm ideally after an electric hybrid bike for riding a few miles each day to work and back.

I currently use a specialised pitch sport mountain bike, but after a long day on my feet an e bike would help on the way home.

Any ideas? Do you think I should wait until bike stocks have been refreshed and we get closer to winter to grab a sale bargain?

Seen a few sites that accept bike vouchers but they invoice you more than the bike costs as they include the commission the bike scheme charges them. Is this a good option?

Saw halfords was clearing last years models last week for under 1k but non left in stock now. Am I right in thinking you can't add money to voucher if bike is more?

Thanks in advance for any reply, looking for ward to joining you all on an ebike.

Cheers

Try ebikes direct im getting a beacon basis electric mountain bike from them..good reviews to i think cycle to work scheme uses them to. www.ebikesdirect.com

 

[Fireproofbob]

So decided to go for the carrera subway at £1100. But the problem is halfords said I can't add any money to the £1000 voucher to buy a more expensive bike. they said if bike was 900 and you wanted 200 of accessories you could do that but the bike cannot cost more than the voucher.

 

[gsm.terra]

So decided to go for the carrera subway at £1100. But the problem is halfords said I can't add any money to the £1000 voucher to buy a more expensive bike. they said if bike was 900 and you wanted 200 of accessories you could do that but the bike cannot cost more than the voucher.

That’s not good! Looks like the Carrera crossroads is your only choice!