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  1. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    We can blame system, and agreed it has its faults, but those faulty things within it apply to all parties. Perhaps the ability to utilise the system to your own parties' success is both a necessary evil and a quality required to run the country. You plainly don't want Labour to change. I do, I...
  2. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/30/boris-johnson-tories-left-economy-labour Has OG been asleep for last year. Johnson and this Govt have been utilising historically Labour policies for at least a year. This Guardian article is a year old, and Tories have introduced even more...
  3. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2020/10/07/len-mccluskey-unite-labour-party-keir-starmer-funding/ And to not recognise the roll McCluskey plays in Labour Party really is burying your head in the sand. He is probably the most important person in the entire movement,and its part of the problem. He hates...
  4. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    And stay out of power...??
  5. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    Getting rather repetitive now Danidl. Irrespective of which money or from where any company exists on its ability to supply orders. EU did not place orders, yes UK did jump the gun, yes perhaps they were lucky or perhaps had more insight. You can't change history to suit your argument. UK Govt...
  6. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    Fair points flecc. I suspect your assessment of Labour principles versus Tory doesn't stand examination. Liverpool mayor, Len McCluskey awarding contracts. They all view it as a great big gravy train. But yes, proportional representation may help but it has inherent problems. (tends to produce...
  7. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    They were made in Countries within the EU to full fill orders placed by UK. Now they have decided it works, decided they will authorise vaccine, now decided its safe you think they should take precedent over UK because they are made in EU? We, ve been here before Danidl. You ignored the...
  8. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

  9. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    So if voters are predominantly conservatives with a small C why can't Labour party reflect that. What is point of having all these high ideals but for a shrinking minority? No party would get elected on that standing. The point is in a democracy to have policies, idealogy and people that voters...
  10. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    Sorry Flecc (not going back to find post) but unfortunately it's your very thinking that's keeping Labour out of contention. Your whole concept is that Tories are as bad, electorate are wrong, mis led by Tory press, and it's not the fault of Labour and their divisions.(suspect there is more...
  11. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    You had yours yet Danidl?
  12. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    https://www.ft.com/content/4cf1b235-ed07-4ffe-bab4-95846a0ecf36 Let's hope it isn't premature.
  13. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    We had no affects at all. Neither did daughter or her husband. Of the 20 or so people I know only one had any. He had mild flu symptoms for a couple of days. He whinges a lot at best of times tho. You won't know you, ve had it. Nurse I know thinks some side effects are self induced, you think...
  14. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/06/pandemic-momentum-labour-party-moderates-fractured-leftwing Unfortunately Labour has not yet established its own identity yet. We still have momentum with its Corbynistas, Unite and McCluskey and Starmer a watered down Blair.(and still with...
  15. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    OG, you are ill.
  16. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    It's strange then that you would put your faith in a man who after Boris had given instructions about mixing, social distancing etc said he would be doing no such thing. I,m afraid its a fact Labour's response to emergency would have been as mixed up and convuluted as all their policies but...
  17. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    I also suspect our obesity and diabetes issues are rather beyond control of even left wing heroes. Suspect if we examined relationship between left wing governments and successful covid out comes.... There is no correlation... Except in JA's mind. BTW OG I notice you still insist on replying...
  18. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    Think your correlations are rather awry at best. New Zealand has had a successful covid experience for other reasons than the Government being left wing. Belgium has no right wing parties at all and a left wing government in power. It has the worst death rate of any major country. And at the...
  19. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    Actually quite proud, the alternative was Corbyn,Len McCluskey and Diane Abbot. Agreed country is in a mess but stop and think where we, d be with Labour in no 10.. Its silly to knock what you, ve got when there isn't an alternative. Do you really believe we, d have had this vaccine roll out...
  20. Z

    Brexit, for once some facts.

    Way Labour have performed and are performing its going to be a thousand years of Boris and his ilk.... So you aren't far off... Perhaps had the loony left, Marxists, Unite and momentum not hijacked Labour we might still have a viable opposition.