News - DfT: Pedal cycles converted to ‘twist and go’ exempt from type approval

[shemozzle999]

If I was a manufacturer I would get my supplier to make EN I5194 approved EPAC's without a throttle and plate them accordingly, as the UK law would then consider them as bicycles within Great Britain.

After selling them I would offer the customer the options of a throttle/ replacement homebuild plate kit for self conversion or get them to return the secondhand bike for manufacturer to fit a conversion kit of a throttle/replacement conversion plate.

 

[trex]

flecc said that converting a shop bought EAPC is illegal.

 

[shemozzle999]

Only the DfT can make that decision.

 

[flecc]

If I was a manufacturer I would get my supplier to make EN I5194 approved EPAC's without a throttle and plate them accordingly, as the UK law would then consider them as bicycles within Great Britain.

After selling them I would offer the customer the options of a throttle/ replacement homebuild plate kit for self conversion or get them to return the secondhand bike for manufacturer to fit a conversion kit of a throttle/replacement conversion plate.

I'm convinced that is not the case. Our pedelecs are considered to be subject to bicycle law on the road as if they were bicycles, but in UK law they are EAPCs (Electric Assist Pedal Cycles).

The provision that the DfT has made for after market throttles applies only to bicycles converted to EAPCs later, not to manufactured EAPCs, and that is certainly the spirit of the ruling the DfT has made.
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[shemozzle999]

If they allowed it on the grounds of fulfilling their requirement to Fundamental Rights, the challenge would have to come from the EU Commission.

The Commission would have to take it to the EU Court of Justice for a ruling.

 

[flecc]

Our pedelecs are considered to be subject to bicycle law on the road as if they were bicycles, but in UK law they are EAPCs (Electric Assist Pedal Cycles).

The provision that the DfT has made for after market throttles applies only to bicycles converted to EAPCs later, not to manufactured EAPCs.

My thinking for this opinion is that a manufactured EAPC is potentially liable to type approval and is only on the road without it due to meeting the exemption conditions in the type approval law.

Because it was already an EAPC at source, fitting a throttle at any time breaches the exemption conditions.

If that's accepted a manufacturer or supplier might just as well include a throttle in the box for a customer to fit if they found they wanted it later. After all, the EAPC is second hand the moment the transaction is completed and it's in a customer's ownership, even if never ridden.

Of course I would be delighted if the DfT stretched their ruling to include such a comprehensive reading, but I think it unlikely.
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[trex]

Only the DfT can make that decision.

in the absence of enthusiasm from officialdom, who will take the manufacturers to Court?

 

[anotherkiwi]

If that's accepted a manufacturer or supplier might just as well include a throttle in the box for a customer to fit if they found they wanted it later. After all, the EAPC is second hand the moment the transaction is completed and it's in a customer's ownership, even if never ridden.

1. Cable to handlebar
2. Throttle in box
3. A4 sheet of instructions
4 Profit!

 

[flecc]

in the absence of enthusiasm from officialdom, who will take the manufacturers to Court?

In practice a challenge is probably not necessary. In this discussion I've only been concerned with the technicality of the law.

From the moment that the DfT have said that throttles can be permitted on EAPCs subject to certain conditions, police interest will end. I cannot conceive they'd be concerned with the minutiae of whether an e-bike has met throttle permission conditions.

It follows that any e-bike that meets EAPC (pedelec) law in the UK can in practice be used with a throttle, no matter when it was fitted, since no-one is likely to complain, or even know if they could complain, so obscure is this issue. It also means that grandfather rights become a real world irrelevancy, it being unlikely that one would ever need to claim them.
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[Kudoscycles]

If I was a manufacturer I would get my supplier to make EN I5194 approved EPAC's without a throttle and plate them accordingly, as the UK law would then consider them as bicycles within Great Britain.

After selling them I would offer the customer the options of a throttle/ replacement homebuild plate kit for self conversion or get them to return the secondhand bike for manufacturer to fit a conversion kit of a throttle/replacement conversion plate.

The Kudos Secret and Safari both were imported prior to Decembet 2015 so have grandfather rights, the K16 will be supplied with a throttle in a box,the throttle will not be fitted to the bike,it will be accompanied by the latest Dft twist whatever that may be so that customers can make up their own mind as to the legality/ necessary type approval implications of fitting the throttle.
From my viewpoint the Dft have made this subject so complex that I am completely confused so I will let customers make their own decisions.
It will be made clear on the invoice that we think that fitting the 15 mph throttle required type approval.
Shame, because the K16 is just the product to overcome urban traffic problems and the throttle just seems to suit the profile of the bike.
Now hasn't that thrown the proverbial cat amongst the pigeons,let the customer decide.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

1. Cable to handlebar
2. Throttle in box
3. A4 sheet of instructions
4 Profit!

I made my posting before I read this, seems like we are thinking similarly.
When there are 5000 plus e-bikes out there with full speed throttles, who can work out the provenance of how each was achieved.
Dave

 

[flecc]

When there are 5000 plus e-bikes out there with full speed throttles, who can work out the provenance of how each was achieved.
Dave

I'm sure there are far more than 5000 already out there Dave.

There's all the grandfather rights bikes that originated with throttles bought between November 2003 and April 2015. Just two Ezee models that I've owned/have owned sold together some 1500 in a single 12 month period that I knew some figures for, all with fully acting throttles. That brand has been selling in the UK for 12 years, all models with full throttles for around half that period.

Then there's all the conversions and home builds during that same twelve years, almost all I'm sure with throttles.

It's really only since 2008 that EU pedelec only e-bikes started to gain more of the UK market and not until 2010 that they were becoming a major element.
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[shemozzle999]

Now hasn't that thrown the proverbial cat amongst the pigeons,let the customer decide.
KudosDave

It would be better if the DfT decides and finally clears up the impossible position, while it still can, before the EU takes the next step which would be for the EU to remove the member states power to impose type approval so that they can attempt to achieve their future ambition of one global standard for the entire motor vehicle industry.

 

[shemozzle999]

My thinking for this opinion is that a manufactured EAPC is potentially liable to type approval and is only on the road without it due to meeting the exemption conditions in the type approval law.

Because it was already an EAPC at source, fitting a throttle at any time breaches the exemption conditions.

If that's accepted a manufacturer or supplier might just as well include a throttle in the box for a customer to fit if they found they wanted it later. After all, the EAPC is second hand the moment the transaction is completed and it's in a customer's ownership, even if never ridden.

Of course I would be delighted if the DfT stretched their ruling to include such a comprehensive reading, but I think it unlikely.
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And re-plating would make it a different type of EAPC

 

[flecc]

And re-plating would make it a different type of EAPC

I don't understand, why would it be re-plated? It should already be plated as an EAPC and adding a throttle makes no difference to the details on the plate.

The law says that manufactured pedelecs without full throttles are EAPCs, the DfT have said that conversions are also considered to be EAPCs, whether with or without throttle, and all have to be labelled in the same manner according to the EAPC regulations.
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[shemozzle999]

Because the law requires a manufacturer's name on the plate - after modification the original name would not reflect the true identity of the manufacturer thus would need to be changed.

 

[hoppy]

Logically, in my view,a conforming EAPC sold new without a working 15.5mph throttle does not cease to be an EAPC if the throttle is activated after sale. It only needed type approval if sold new with the independent throttle active.

 

[flecc]

Because the law requires a manufacturer's name on the plate - after modification the original name would not reflect the true identity of the manufacturer thus would need to be changed.

I thought that would be the answer, but I can't see that can be true after just adding such a minor thing as a throttle. The pedelec would still be the original brand of EAPC and the same type of vehicle in law.

There's a precedent. If a disabled person has a car converted from foot to hand accelerator, it's registered brand name remains the same. That's true for even more drastic disability alterations.

The key difference for a conversion from a bicycle is that it isn't an EAPC in the first place, so the conversion is truly a change of maker since a new type of vehicle is created from scratch.
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[flecc]

Logically, in my view,a conforming EAPC sold new without a working 15.5mph throttle does not cease to be an EAPC if the throttle is activated after sale. It only needed type approval if sold new with the independent throttle active.

The difference is that creating an EAPC by adding a kit to a bicycle does not require type approval so does not utilise the exemption in the type approval law. Therefore a throttle does not evade the law.

A manufactured EAPC does rely on the exemption to be on the road, and that exemption excludes a throttle. Adding a throttle would constitute an attempt at evasion, which is illegal.
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[craiggor]

Confirmed by Claire Rees to to the Parliament Committee prior to the vote on the 2015 amendments:

"There is one more point to respond to. The twist and go classifications will be permitted up to 15.5 mph. A vehicle under that limit will be designated as an EAPC, because it is considered to be a benefit to elderly and less able people. Any twist and go vehicle that can achieve a speed above that will be classified as a moped. Also, an information plate defining what an EAPC is will be fitted on vehicles, so hopefully there will be no doubt about that"

House of Commons General Committee : Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015 (24 February 2015)

Note: this is law in Great Britain only, our Northern Ireland members would have to pursue there own regulatory body for an exemption.

I think today's confusion has come from the above debate on the 2015 amendments.That talked about lifting the weight limit,speed up to 15.5,power up to 250w and it was noted that EAPC would be good for business. The last point made was a EAPC should be a twist and go and have a information PLATE.
Questions put and agreed to.
What happens after that? Did/do they vote on this and it becomes law or does some one go off and write the legislation,then they vote on that ?The legislation I have read on here says 15.5mph,250w and weight limit removed.No mention of a plate just the bike needs to be marked.And Twist and go got changed to needing type approval.