Grant Shapps wants a speed limit for cyclists

"How perverse is it that at the moment there is no speed limit for cyclists? You can have a 20mph limit but many fit cyclists can go faster than that – but there is nothing to stop or deter them."

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11085913/Killer-cyclists-face-tougher-jail-sentences-crackdown-proposed-Grant-Shapps.html

A 20mph limit wouldn't be practical downhill. I'd get through brake pads at too high a rate!

 

 

Edited August 6, 20223 yr by I893469365902345609348566

"How perverse is it that at the moment there is no speed limit for cyclists? You can have a 20mph limit but many fit cyclists can go faster than that – but there is nothing to stop or deter them."

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11085913/Killer-cyclists-face-tougher-jail-sentences-crackdown-proposed-Grant-Shapps.html

https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/2017-08-24/charlie-alliston-case

As ever a politician is not telling the whole truth, whilst using the case of Kim Briggs as an example\justification for suggesting a cycling speed limit of 20mph, he fails to mention that Kim Briggs was travelling at 18mph when the pedestrian was hit, so a 20mph speed limit would have not helped in this case, no doubt Mr Shapps is fully aware of this.

 

It is slightly odd that there are no speed limits for conventional cyclists, but whilst I do see quite often the Deliveroo eBike riders going faster than 15mph, perhaps as they are working they think they are exempt from the regulations, I cannot recall recently seeing a conventional cyclist going at more than 20mph on typical urban roads.

 

Very ocaisionally, when I am at the 15mph limit on my eBike, I do get overtaken by a cyclist going slightly faster than me, but I doubt they are doing 20mph+.

 

A classic case of a car centric party bashing other road users.

I saw this as part of brexit - so posted there. This is what I said:

 

Don't worry, they'll blame cyclists next.

 

Oh! They have:

 

RECKLESS CYCLISTS FACE JAIL CRACKDOWN

 

(Daily Mail front page last night - might have changed by now.) Something might need to be done but the number of deaths caused by cyclists is still pretty low (about 2.5 per year according to some sources, 7 from others). Looks like diversionary tactics by Shapps. Again.

 

He hits out at ‘a selfish minority’ of aggressive riders and says the overhaul is needed to ‘impress on cyclists the real harm they can cause when speed is combined with lack of care’. Under his proposal, a new law of causing death by dangerous cycling would be included in the Transport Bill, due before Parliament in the autumn.

 

The claim is only that it will have an impact on cyclists' minds. Not that it will reduce the rate of deaths and serious injuries.

 

And it only makes a real difference when the cyclist is not charged with, or is found not guilty of, manslaughter, and it drops down to furious cycling. The possibility of a manslaughter charge should already be impressed on these cyclists. If it isn't, I don't see this measure having a beneficial effect other than as retributive justice.

First requirement is surely that every bicycle would have to be fitted with a speedometer?

 

Ludicrous if you could be charged with a speeding offence but quite legally have no means of knowing your speed.

 

I can't see an obvious point at which some, such as toddlers' bikes, don't need to have a speedo, but others do.

 

To be usable at all times, they would have to be illuminated. That is, not just a simple mechanical device but operated to some extent by electricity. (Could be an exemption if the bicycle has no lights fitted.)

 

Second is surely that bicycles should be fitted with a working audible warning device?

 

Also, the article refers to manslaughter, but not the Scottish offence of culpable homicide. Shows where the focus is.

It's votebait for the 160k tory members (Tory -from the gaelic for outlaw, bandit, robber), who are choosing our new PM and the direction the country will go, for us. Sunak, Truss and their acolytes are leapfrogging each other to the right with loony ideas to glean gammon votes. My local FB page is often attacking cyclists for various perceived misdemeanours, mainly, wearing lycra and getting to the head of the queue at traffic lights and road works.

It's votebait for the 160k tory members (Tory -from the gaelic for outlaw, bandit, robber), who are choosing our new PM and the direction the country will go, for us.

 

Absolutly spot on.

 

Laws already exist to prosecute cyclists for daft stuff, no new laws needed.

 

Bit like a politician (I dont recall who) who said, "we need new legislation to stamp out this illegal activity"

What a load of bollards !

Firstly, no current requirement for a speedo.

How would you register a cyclist speeding whilst in amongst faster traffic?

Do bikes register on on speed detection devices?

How would the cyclist be identified unless actually stopped by a copper?

Oh, it goes on.

What a load of bollards !

Firstly, no current requirement for a speedo.

How would you register a cyclist speeding whilst in amongst faster traffic?

Do bikes register on on speed detection devices?

How would the cyclist be identified unless actually stopped by a copper?

Oh, it goes on.

 

Well exactly.

 

A random politician;

 

"So that we can enforce the new cycling regulations, all cycles will be required to have a registration plate"

he fails to mention that Kim Briggs was travelling at 18mph when the pedestrian was hit

 

Kim was the pedestrian killed and was walking at the time.

 

She was hit by cyclist Charlie Alliston who was cycling at 18 mph.

.

"Killer cyclists" it's like killer wasps and killer bees, it's like we all purposely get on our bikes to kill people, they do make me laugh. Just another case of moral panic, while we all blame each other, we don't blame them for their inadequacies.

First requirement is surely that every bicycle would have to be fitted with a speedometer?

 

Precedent says that isn't the case.

 

The first example is The Locomotive Act 1861 (locomotive being the term for road going motor vehicles at that time).

 

That imposed a universal speed limit of 10 mph at a time when there was no such thing as a road vehicle speedometer. The police could check it of course by time over distance.

.

Precedent says that isn't the case.

 

The first example is The Locomotive Act 1861 (locomotive being the term for road going motor vehicles at that time).

 

That imposed a universal speed limit of 10 mph at a time when there was no such thing as a road vehicle speedometer. The police could check it of course by time over distance.

.

The man with the red flag got rather upset when the locomotive went at over 10 mph. (As updated in the 1865 Act.)

 

More seriously, had there been a functional, usable speedometer available, I suspect that they would soon have been mandated. Even in the 1861 Act.

The speed limit for eBikes applies to my Swytch converted Brompton.

 

There is no speedo on it.

More seriously, had there been a functional, usable speedometer available, I suspect that they would soon have been mandated. Even in the 1861 Act.

 

I'm not so sure, since there are many other instances.

 

For example a few years ago Brighton imposed a 10 mph cycling limit on a stretch of promenade and cyclists were fined for exceeding it. More recently that has changed since other cycling provisions have been made, but it showed speedometers weren't deemed necessary, even though they were freely and very cheaply available. The responsibility to comply was entirely the cyclist's, if needed by fitting a speedometer.

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Edited August 6, 20223 yr by flecc

The speed limit for eBikes applies to my Swytch converted Brompton.

 

There is no speedo on it.

Bikes with decent kit have a speedo on the LCD panel

"Killer cyclists" it's like killer wasps and killer bees, it's like we all purposely get on our bikes to kill people,

No. But cyclists have a duty of care to ride carefully and responsibly according to conditions to minimize the risk to others. And, unfortunately, many cyclists do not respect this.

 

Also unfortunately, I suspect that tightening the law and increasing penalties won't make much difference to their irresponsible behaviour.

The speed limit for eBikes applies to my Swytch converted Brompton.

 

There is no speedo on it.

In that sense, there doesn't need to be any form of display. The restriction is on the bike receiving power from the battery at higher speeds - not on the bike itself going faster.

 

If the Swytch kit doesn't impose a limit, and I have no idea whether or not it does, then it would appear intrinsically to be illegal.

No. But cyclists have a duty of care to ride carefully and responsibly according to conditions to minimize the risk to others. And, unfortunately, many cyclists do not respect this.

 

Also unfortunately, I suspect that tightening the law and increasing penalties won't make much difference to their irresponsible behaviour.

I agree it is attitude rather than speed.

 

The most common issue for me, living in a quiet largely rural area, is when walking along a shared use path. A bike suddenly goes past without warning, sometimes quite fast. If I haven't seen it (assume it came from behind), the sudden tyre noise and whoosshh of wind and tyres can be quite unsettling. Even worse if I had been just about to turn across their path. They don't mean to do anything wrong, but I do wish they'd ring a bell as a warning, well before they reach me.

 

As nothing compared to what happens in major towns and cities.

In statistical terms, injury and death of pedestrians by bicycle compared to cars is insignificant (and I do understand the campaigning individual who's parter died would disagree - statisics aren't sympathetic).

 

From the 2020 stats (RAS40004.xlsx):

 

Pedestrians hit by [bicycle]
288


of which: killed
4


seriously injured (adjusted)
99

 

Pedestrians hit by [car]
10,949


of which: killed
200


seriously injured (adjusted)
3,106

 

Note that injury and death by cars were lower in 2020, probably due to Covid. Deaths in previous years were in the 250-280 region

whoosshh of wind and tyres can be quite unsettling

I've had this, I didn't realise at the time but I was suffering, and still do but not as intense, from a mild form of PTSD, the sudden beep of a horn whilst walking would make me paranoid, the specialist just put it down to high blood glucose over a long period without medication.

 

I would hope most cyclists would slow down and wait to be acknowledged by the pedestrian before attempting a pass, it is what I do, some folks are lacking in common sense and common decency.

I prefer to use my voice rather than the bell or the Hornit. "Good morning, bike coming by on your left, keep going as you are" (aarrgh no Missus, other Left, ring finger side ). It's a bit more friendly.

I prefer to use my voice rather than the bell or the Hornit. "Good morning, bike coming by on your left, keep going as you are" (aarrgh no Missus, other Left, ring finger side ). It's a bit more friendly.

 

My preference is a single "ting" on the bell as I slow to near walking pace, then as they look round, giving a smile and adding as I slowly pass "Sorry to inconvenience you".

 

That always gets a excellent response.

.

In statistical terms, injury and death of pedestrians by bicycle compared to cars is insignificant (and I do understand the campaigning individual who's parter died would disagree - statisics aren't sympathetic).

 

From the 2020 stats (RAS40004.xlsx):

 

Pedestrians hit by [bicycle]
288


of which: killed
4


seriously injured (adjusted)
99

 

Pedestrians hit by [car]
10,949


of which: killed
200


seriously injured (adjusted)
3,106

 

Note that injury and death by cars were lower in 2020, probably due to Covid. Deaths in previous years were in the 250-280 region

 

Just curious, are there figures for Pedestrians hit by [Pedestrians] ?