Electric Brompton – custom build

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
Hi Barry,

Thanks for the interest! You may well be right about the 14Ah battery being overkill, but I'd rather be safe than sorry and end up with an under capacity battery. That would be a very expensive mistake.

The factors which made me go for this battery in the end are:
1) The motor I am using is likely to be quite inefficient and power hungry on hills.
2) The next battery down (11. 5Ah) is only 1kg lighter and £30 cheaper.
3) As the battery degrades over time I still want sufficient range.
4) As you stated its much kinder to not completely discharge the battery all the time.
5) I'm not that bothered about 6kg in a separate bag to the bike, I won't be going hiking with it :)

Ben


Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
Hi I think you have ordered some very good parts to make a super RELIABLE bike for commuting
with full control with the cycle analyst

If you limit the amps to 10 A and set the speed to 15MPH

It will be fully road legal

I was trying to help with the heat problem

Every thing else looks Fantastic

Frank
Thanks Frank... I have taken your advice and changed my controller housing to allow it to be cooler.

To be legal I think you can run the controller at much more than (peak) 10A. Most commercial electric bikes have a 15-20A controller as I'm sure you know. The limit being a nominal or average power... peak current draw on hills will be much higher as it is on Ezee, Wisper and I'm sure your own bikes.

Thanks again for your advice, you have saved me from a costly melted controller! :)



Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
Haha...motor has shipped from Belgium, fingers crossed it arrives in time for the weekend!



Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
I need to put an inline fuse on my main power lead from the battery. Can I just use a car type 30A fuse or do I need something bigger as it's 39v?

Many thanks,
Ben
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
I use car fuses and holders on my batteries which work fine. I only use 15amp fuses and mine is fairly low powered.

Regards

Jerry
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
I use car fuses and holders on my batteries which work fine. I only use 15amp fuses and mine is fairly low powered.

Regards

Jerry

Thanks Jerry, for me it will just be in case of short circuit or malfunction. The battery will be undamaged up to 70A so a 30A fuse should be just fine.

Ben
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Definitely worth fitting one, though I guess your battery will have a fuse anyway ?

Regards

Jerry
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
Definitely worth fitting one, though I guess your battery will have a fuse anyway ?

Regards

Jerry
Not sure, its being shipped in the next few days so I'll have to wait and see! Just trying to get everything ready for the final install when it arrives. The rest of the conversion will be done and so I should just be able to pop the battery in the bag and off I go!

Hoping to get the motor and controller on this weekend and tested with my old 36v lipo battery.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Will be interesting to see your new motor and how it fits. Are the axles smaller than the norm 10mm flat 12mm round diam on most motors ?

If so you will need to file open the Brompton dropouts a little wider to accomodate. Will you need to fit torque washers ?

Regards

Jerry
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
Will be interesting to see your new motor and how it fits. Are the axles smaller than the norm 10mm flat 12mm round diam on most motors ?

If so you will need to file open the Brompton dropouts a little wider to accomodate. Will you need to fit torque washers ?

Regards

Jerry
The axle is 7.5mm, specifically designed for the Brompton. Torque washers are definitely something I will want. I guess I'll have to get some specially made...that's the next headache I think unless you know anybody who may be able to help?

Ben
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
These pictures show what I mean








This shows the anti rotation washers but I had to enlarge the hole to fit those. You could use the supplied ones but they need a bit of modification as will the mudguard stay wire loop if the axle is larger than the stock ones.

Regards

Jerry
 
Last edited:

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Ah cross posts.

That is good news. The stock retaining washers should fit with a little modification though they are not overly strong. Depends on the torque of your motor.

Regards

Jerry
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
I asked Crystalyte about torque arms or washers and they said they're not needed due to relatively low torque in a small wheel...and that torque arms would not fit.

However, they supply the Brompton kit with a 12A controller and I will be at 15-20A peak so I need to be careful.

I will perhaps need to find a local metal worker to produce something for me.

Thanks for the help and advice anyway.

Ben
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
Well the motor (in wheel) has arrived but Crystalyte have sent the wrong fudging connector lead grrrrrrrr how complicated is it to send the correct lead for the correct motor?

So now off to maplin to get some wiring to tide me over and get it going.

Will post some pics later.
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Looking forward to the pics :)

Jerry
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
Ok so I've got the bike built and working! Have not had time to update the thread as I have been flat out on it all day!

I have met and worked around a mulitude of problems which were completely unexpected...I'll try and post a proper update tomorrow.

G209 gives exactly 15.5mph at 36v on a Brompton....more to follow.

Ben
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
Ok so yesterday I pretty much completed my Brompton build in one day. The first thing I found is that the Crystalyte G209 motor may well have a 74mm dropout spacing but it WILL NOT fit straight into Brompton forks! The only way the motor will clear the forks is by using the supplied washers which makes it effectively 10-15mm wider!

So I had to stretch the forks somewhat using threaded rod so that the wheel would go in. Incidentally there is no indication on the motor which way it will rotate either so for reference if anybody else uses this motor the wire exits on the left of the bike (which I found after getting it backwards).

I modified the original Brompton retaining washers by filing them out to fit over the Crystalyte axle. There is absolutely no room for torque arms or thicker anti-rotation washers. As you can see in the pictures there is barely room to fit the supplied washers and the mudguard clip onto the axle.





Having fitted the wheel I then had some trouble with the fold due to the slight width change. This was solved by moving the brake levers around a bit to stop them fouling the wheel when folding.

I then wired everything up to my Juicy Bike battery using temporary block connectors and got the wheel running nice and smoothly; everything worked well first time although the rpm seemed quite low. I put all the wiring and controller in the front bag and took it for a little ride; it worked well but was quite slow (14mph on the flat) but seemed to go up hills nicely. I then had a tinker with my programmable controller and managed to up the speed to an unloaded 18.5mph which seemed a little more hopeful.

Then the fun bit...all the cables were routed into my aluminium box (decided not to paint it for now) through rubber grommets. I wired everything up by soldering and double shrink wrapping every connection...this took hours!! I wired in my DC-DC converter and also connected up two splash proof toggle switches to the left of the box. These operate the Magicshine light and ignition. I soon realised that I would never have managed to fit all this into the original smaller box that I considered. For now I have an umbilical power cord which just plugs into my Juicy Bike battery; when I get my proper battery I will have it connecting through the luggage block like the Brompton Nano...no loose wires and nothing to plug in....pop the bag on and go. I mounted the Cycle Analyst directly on top of the controller box and dropped the wire straight down to the controller; I couldn’t mount it directly aligned as it interfered with the fold (of course ).



And then the first test ride – what a perfect setup this is for what I need....speed on the flat unassisted is between 15-17mph; perfectly acceptable and comparable to my Juicy Bike. The Brompton also flies up any hill although my battery doesn’t much like supplying high current so I didn’t push it too hard. I’m really looking forward to getting the big Lifepo4 hooked up!

So for now I think I have just about achieved my aim....a Brompton which still folds small enough to pop on the train but seems to power up hills at a good 15mph. I have also found that the motor is not that restrictive when going downhill; I can easily pedal over 20mph so my average speed should be just fine.

I also have regenerative braking activated on this controller. I’m not too bothered about the extra little bit of range this will create but I am super impressed at the actual braking sensation. As it kicks in I get a nice gradual reduction in speed without having to cause any wear to my brake blocks or rims...if I need to stop quicker I just squeeze harder to activate the actual brakes. Brilliant!

The fly in the ointment?.....it’s heavy. Without the battery it’s 16.3kg so with my lifepo4 this will be 22.3kg. But this is what I expected and contrary to some opinions in this thread I should hopefully have produced a reliable long range commuter Brompton (I guess time will tell).

I am struggling to get the Cycle Analyst calibrated properly...it’s reading up to 70A at the moment which is totally wrong (controller is programmed to 20A max). Some more fiddling with settings needed (I suspect an in correct Rshunt value has been given to me by Ed Lyen). I therefore cannot comment at all on the efficiency of the motor until I get this sorted out.
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26




This one shows the umbilical power cord which will be gone when I sort out the luggage block connectors: