Difficulties getting an e-car, Part 2

[jwm]

We have a Zoe,they are a fantastic car. They cannot have a towbar... Thre are loads of cheap deals. We are paying two thirds of the cost of fuel per month i was paying. Charging is about twenty two quid a month, includes breakdown cover, not tax, mot and insurance is the same as our w reg a-class.

We tried the zoe and the leaf, the leaf is a qualitu vehicle, it doesn't have the looks and has a different feel to the drive(personal pref). Ask away if you have any questions. I'm a bit of a petrol head, not sure if i would go back though, range is the normal issue, but you are likely to find you do far less miles than you think, longer journeys just need a bit of planning.

John

 

[Cyclezee]

We have a Zoe,they are a fantastic car. They cannot have a towbar... Thre are loads of cheap deals. We are paying two thirds of the cost of fuel per month i was paying. Charging is about twenty two quid a month, includes breakdown cover, not tax, mot and insurance is the same as our w reg a-class.

We tried the zoe and the leaf, the leaf is a qualitu vehicle, it doesn't have the looks and has a different feel to the drive(personal pref). Ask away if you have any questions. I'm a bit of a petrol head, not sure if i would go back though, range is the normal issue, but you are likely to find you do far less miles than you think, longer journeys just need a bit of planning.

John

Hi John,

Thanks for your feedback, good to know you are happy with your Zoe.

This would be a car for my wife who doesn't do a lot of miles and rarely ventures outside the city.

Being realistic we can't justify replacing her existing car simply because of cost savings, it would make more sense to run it into the ground.
I paid £6000 for her Daihatsu 9 years ago from a private seller. It was 6 months old with only 600 miles on the clock, the original owner died.
6k for 9 years of reliable motoring, if a Zoe came anywhere near that I would be tempted, but that's very unlikely.

 

[flecc]

I paid £6000 for her Daihatsu 9 years ago from a private seller. It was 6 months old with only 600 miles on the clock,

That was good, rather like my best one, showroom new Fiat Tipo at the very heavily discounted £6975, 10.5 years of no spares bought motoring and sold for £500 at the end.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

That was good, rather like my best one, showroom new Fiat Tipo at the very heavily discounted £6975, 10.5 years of no spares bought motoring and sold for £500 at the end.
.

Well Tony,

Ah Fiat, I have had a love relationship with them over the years.
You certainly had more luck with your Tipo than I had with mine, it was a black1.9 turbo diesel model that pulled like a train and pumped out almost as much soot.
Driving back from the garage on the day I bought it the baffles were lose in the silencer, replaced under warranty, leaky windscreen let water into the electrics which cost a load of money to rectify. Electric window problems, I can't remember the rest.

My wife and daughter have also owned Fiats at one time with varying degrees of success, but the worst Italian car I had was an Alfa Romeo 155, great to drive....when it wasn't in the garage being fixed after that one I said no more Italian cars.

The best was the last, a Fiat Doblo, reliable, practical and cheap to run on LPG...Made in Turkey.

The longest I kept a car was 8 years, a VW Jetta, bought new when I worked in Germany for the equivalent of £3000, despite it being LHD I sold in the UK for £1000.

The best return on a vehicle was a used ex council Daihatsu HiJet van that ran on LPG, paid £1250 for it, kept it two years and sold it for £1750.

My wife's best return on a vehicle, LHD Volvo 244 with 120,000 Km on the clock, cost £300 kept for 2 years sold for £300, but God knows how many gallons of petrol it got through.

Vehicles I wish I had kept, Fiat Doblo, Daihatsu HiJet and Volvo V50 D5.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Fiat 126, Panda 45S, Panda 1000 Fire, Lancia Delta (Fiat bits and bobs), Lancia Delta, Fiat Stilo, my last car (ever?). The Stilo was lots of fun "please pull off the road ASAP something is going to explode" or equivalent it kept saying - for about three years, it used to worry my young sons silly but they got used to it. I got 50 € for scrap from it I was thrilled!

 

[Cyclezee]

I won't go into detail, but here is my Italian list:
Fiat 131 Mirafiori rust bucket bought in Germany.
Fiat Croma 2.0 CHT bought in UK, broken into in Italy, written off in the UK.
Fiat Strada, temporary rust bucket after Croma write off.
Fiat Uno 1.7 diesel, problem free.
Fiat Tempra 2.0 Station Wagon x 2, my wife also had one, problematic.
Alfa Romeo 155 Twin Spark, loved it and hated it at the same time, my most unreliable car to date.
Fiat Punto 1.2, problem free, wife's car.
Fiat Punto CVT automatic, problem free, wife's car.
Fiat Doblo 1.4 LPG, problem free.
THE END, NO MORE ITALIAN CARS....PROBABLY.

 

[Cyclezee]

OK, back on track, best deals so far for an entry level Nissan Leaf, £12,090,
that's 41.8% off the RRP.
Entry level Renault Zoe, £12,588, that's 31.8% off the RRP.

One year old Zoe with less than 1400 miles on the clock £6985.

Phenomenal depreciation!

 

[jwm]

that's why the PCP deals are so attractive, you can get the Zoe for around £9k. The interesting part is how long the vehicle will last, with less things to go wrong (I'm relying on the fact the electrics are a JV) and leasing the battery, the long term potential could be very good... though it's early days yet.


John

 

[Cyclezee]

that's why the PCP deals are so attractive, you can get the Zoe for around £9k. The interesting part is how long the vehicle will last, with less things to go wrong (I'm relying on the fact the electrics are a JV) and leasing the battery, the long term potential could be very good... though it's early days yet.


John

Hi John,

I'm a bit old school and always like to pay for stuff upfront in full unless it's 0% interest and I can't get discount by paying cash.
I guess that's partly due to my Scottish background, if I can't afford to pay for something then I go without.

Where can you get a new Zoe for 9K and what is the catch?

From the quotes I have had so far, the Leaf is a better deal and probably what I would choose if buying one for myself

In all honesty this is basically a bit of research into electric cars which will in all probability not lead to buying a car to replace my wife's current one, it would take lot of persuasion to get her to part with her beloved Daihatsu.

 

[asc99c]

I've driven a Leaf a couple of times and thought it drove rather nicely. Full torque from standing is a killer feature even when the equivalent horsepower is not particularly impressive.

I'm not impressed with Renault though (currently drive a megane cc), most parts of the car, particularly the electrics, have had problems. It's spent ten days at the dealer without any of the problems being identified or fixed...

Personally I'm waiting for the price of second hand Teslas to come down (I may be waiting a while!)

 

[Cyclezee]

I've driven a Leaf a couple of times and thought it drove rather nicely. Full torque from standing is a killer feature even when the equivalent horsepower is not particularly impressive.

I'm not impressed with Renault though (currently drive a megane cc), most parts of the car, particularly the electrics, have had problems. It's spent ten days at the dealer without any of the problems being identified or fixed...

Personally I'm waiting for the price of second hand Teslas to come down (I may be waiting a while!)

Unrelated to the electric car topic, I own a Renault Grand Espace IV diesel, it's one of the last sold in the UK.
I bought it through necessity rather than choice because of my business, when you take the rear seats out it's a comfortable van, tow vehicle in other words an MPV.
I agree Renaults are not the most reliable and can be a bit quirky, but this one seems good and I have found a very good Renault specialist, they are not main dealers, prices are reasonable and they really do know everything about Renault cars, engines, electronics the lot. They are based in Luton which is just over 20 miles from me, but I am happy to go there because I know that I am not going to be ripped off.
Prior to this Espace which I have owned for almost a year I had a 10 year old IV diesel which I picked up for not a lot of money, there were several issues with this one, engine management light, exhaust bypass valve not working which occasionally put it into limp mode, not fun when you are in the fast lane of a busy motorway.
Any way these guys fixed it.
If you are within traveling distance of Luton and have Renault problems give Armstrongs a try.

 

[asc99c]

That's a very good point, how good any car company is is highly dependent on how good your local dealers or independents are.

Unfortunately I'm in Manchester! I normally go to one of two independent garages, one near work, the other near home.

My main problem with Renault though is I've had two issues where the OBD was reporting error codes for which no public description was available, and in each case the Renault dealers (different one in each case) declined to tell the independent what it meant, and instead simply said I had to take the car to the main dealer. First time I was in the end pleased, as the dealer eventually told me there was a recall due to water ingress in the electronics, so Renault paid a weirdly specific 76% of the repair costs! The second time the car went to the dealer and sat there for ten days, without anyone telling me what was going on.

So as of today the engine randomly cuts out whilst driving, not stalling but stopping injection. All I know is it's an undeterminable ECU problem that seemingly no one can fix!

Renault rant over! (sorry)

 

[anotherkiwi]

The French are just as good as the Italians when it comes to electronics. The make you mostly see on flat bed trucks here is Peugeot, I had friends who had Peugeots and well you just stopped asking where their car was (answer: at the garage).

Now when it comes to electronics the Germans... oh haven't wee been there already?

 

[flecc]

One year old Zoe with less than 1400 miles on the clock £6985.

Phenomenal depreciation!

This is the e-car killer, second hand there's the possibility of a new battery needed, costing several thousand pounds.

Realistically a four year old e-car is worth absolutely nothing, a problem the trade has no answer to. Any e-car bought outright has to be a seven or more year purchase wearing the battery right out to be really worthwhile.
.

 

[Yamdude]

Hi John,

I'm a bit old school and always like to pay for stuff upfront in full unless it's 0% interest and I can't get discount by paying cash.
I guess that's partly due to my Scottish background, if I can't afford to pay for something then I go without.

Where can you get a new Zoe for 9K and what is the catch?

From the quotes I have had so far, the Leaf is a better deal and probably what I would choose if buying one for myself

In all honesty this is basically a bit of research into electric cars which will in all probability not lead to buying a car to replace my wife's current one, it would take lot of persuasion to get her to part with her beloved Daihatsu.

I expect the £9K will be the cost of the monthly payments over the 3 yr PCP contract and then there will be a big balloon payment at the end if you want to keep the car..... Or you can just hand it back as if you're leasing it, but then you'll likely get extra charges for any dings & scrapes the car has suffered and of course your past monthly payments are now lost money.
You really have to look into PCP carefully to see if its right for you.
Personally i prefer to buy outright.... i always take a lot of time searching for the best deal and then haggling even further. But i have a lot of options with IC cars. Electric cars are of no interest to me the way the market is for them currently.

 

[robert44]

We have a Zoe,they are a fantastic car. They cannot have a towbar... Thre are loads of cheap deals. We are paying two thirds of the cost of fuel per month i was paying. Charging is about twenty two quid a month, includes breakdown cover, not tax, mot and insurance is the same as our w reg a-class.

We tried the zoe and the leaf, the leaf is a qualitu vehicle, it doesn't have the looks and has a different feel to the drive(personal pref). Ask away if you have any questions. I'm a bit of a petrol head, not sure if i would go back though, range is the normal issue, but you are likely to find you do far less miles than you think, longer journeys just need a bit of planning.

John

What warranty is given for the battery? I have read that some warrantys can be up to 8years or 100,000+ miles.

 

[flecc]

What warranty is given for the battery? I have read that some warrantys can be up to 8years or 100,000+ miles.

Renault-Nissan are effectively the one company and their e-cars are fundamentally the same. The Leaf battery warranty is five years, but with both the battery rental terms are a maximum of four years.

I read into this that they are confident about the battery range being adequate for four years but not for five.
.

 

[the_killjoy]

When they give a battery warranty, what are they guaranteeing after 5 years, 60%, 80% ? and how is it measured?

 

[flecc]

When they give a battery warranty, what are they guaranteeing after 5 years, 60%, 80% ? and how is it measured?

It's 70% for the 5 years or 60,000 miles for the Nissan Leaf battery.

Considering the range in adverse circumstances they admit can be as little as 60 miles when new, that 70% represents just 42 miles. Some insist it can be even less.

So allowing for possible delays etc, at difficult times one couldn't embark on a return trip of more than about 15 miles each way. That's why I say a four year battery life is more realistic, and that's the limit they will rent the battery for, effectively agreeing with me.
.

 

[jwm]

You can buy or lease the battery.. Leasing is the sensible route as it takes out the risk of issues. in relation to the pcp figures, £9k is the balloon payment with a charge of £30 per month for two years... Battery is £89 for 9000 miles a year extra miles are 8p per mile.

As already mentioned Renault Nissan share the tech, so they should be as reliable as each other... It was a reservation of mine as Renault, electrics and reliable rarely are seem together without a not!

We rook the plunge on the cost saving for us