Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

I am confused by what they think they will achieve by cornering the UK.

There is no cornering and I can't understand what you mean by that.

Quite simply they need to establish the financial basis of our departure to settle existing commitments, before entering into granting any trade deal advantages.

When you walk into a car showroom, does a salesman say "Here's the car you want and the ownership documents, now can we decide how much you're going to pay for it"?
.

 

[shemozzle999]

Looks like a very hard brexit as they decree no partial deal can be done.

The only tangible asset they can withhold would be the value of our EIB shareholding - about £38 billion - predict this will be near the exit fee they ask for.

 

[oldgroaner]

Before you can think of reversing brexit, may be you should convincingly explain these benefits to the 52%

That was I suspect a jest?
Do you imagine it would make the slighest difference?

They are not swayed by rational arguments, and as proof I offer the fact that the electorate keeps on choosing a bunch of politicians who actively work against their interests.

If logical argument did any good it would have prevented the Conservative party and New Labour too ever forming a Government.

The principal that operates to motivate the public to vote is simply the party that is most effective at lying to them consistently and making the biggest promises.

 

[oldtom]

This is now:



Tom

 

[oldtom]

Robinson explaining the BBC's purpose:



Tom

 

[shemozzle999]

Doorstep remarks by the High Representative / Vice-President Federica Mogherini upon arrival at the Special European Council (Art.50)

Brussels, 29 April 2017

"I think that today we will send a very strong message of unity of the 27 Member States, as we did already in Rome on 25 March, 2017 celebrating not only 60 years of successful history of our European Union but also the future of our European integration.
We will discuss issues related to our future partnership with the UK only at a second stage, including foreign affairs and security policy. But I can tell you already that the Brexit will not affect significantly our global work. We will stay, even at 27 in the future, the first market in the world, the first trading partner for all in the world, the first humanitarian and development donor and also a very strong the security and defence provider.
The UK contributes not more than between 3 and 5% to our EU missions and operations in the world. So the impact I expect on that is not that relevant.
But we will aim at a strong partnership for the future relations in a second stage and I am confident we will continue to work closely together also in the future"

Only 3 to 5% - I wonder if that is the figure they are basing our exit fee on? No doubt they will produce the facts to back this statement.

 

[anotherkiwi]

How many times do we have to say "there is no exit fee"? The UK promised money. That is due even if you leave. End of story. There is no "bill" or "exit fee" pure tabloid invention.

 

[oldgroaner]

How many times do we have to say "there is no exit fee"? The UK promised money. That is due even if you leave. End of story. There is no "bill" or "exit fee" pure tabloid invention.

Absolutely Right, but then what has the TRUTH to go with the Media? or with the Government of this country if it comes to that?

 

[Woosh]

How many times do we have to say "there is no exit fee"? The UK promised money. That is due even if you leave. End of story. There is no "bill" or "exit fee" pure tabloid invention.

I think there is but let's wait until the EU shows how the bill is arrived at.

 

[oldtom]

As if there were any need to demonstrate just how out of touch with reality and how lacking in humanity tory politicians are, this despicable woman thought this was a good idea:

15254839.Mhairi_Black__How_can_Ruth_Davidson_pose_on_a_mobility_scooter_while_her_party_takes_cars_from_disabled_people_

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

On my Bike ride this morning at the Humber Bank I spotted this

Very impressive! these wind turbines will be joining over 700 others out in the North Sea.
Since we are keen on "Controlling our borders" how do we propose to protect what will soon become our MAJOR source of energy from enemy attack with the joke of Trident and Nuclear attack submarines armed with Cruise Missiles, plus the few dozen other surface craft?

They are vulnerable to fighter bomber attack, or underwater it would only take a small submarine to sneak in, attach remote controlled limpet mines to all of these sitting duck targets and then hold us to ransom, to put us into deep trouble.
I wonder if the powers that be have a plan to protect them and us?
Does anyone believe that they have?

This from Wikipedia
"Wind power delivers a growing percentage of the energy of the United Kingdom and at the beginning of March 2017, it consisted of 7,250 wind turbines with a total installed capacity of over 14.6 gigawatts: 9,512 megawatts of onshore capacity and 5,098 megawatts of offshore capacity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

[oldtom]

I wonder if the powers that be have a plan to protect them and us?
Does anyone believe that they have?

You shouldn't need to ask. These strong and stable structures will be protected by a fleet of specially-adapted Royal Navy frigates and minesweepers against any threat or contingency, fuel supplies permitting......and boats!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

You shouldn't need to ask. These strong and stable structures will be protected by a fleet of specially-adapted Royal Navy frigates and minesweepers against any threat or contingency, fuel supplies permitting......and boats!

Tom

That's very reassuring to know that a Navy we haven't got and aren't likely to get in the foreseeable future as we can't afford it has got it covered.

However, I suspect there is a plan to sell them all to any potential enemy in the hope they won't destroy something they own anyway.
After all they are no more likely to remain our property than North Sea oil did under the Tory Government are they.

Cunning plan , no?

 

[flecc]

how do we propose to protect what will soon become our MAJOR source of energy from enemy attack

We'll be in deep trouble power wise in any repeat of WW2, regardless of this vulnerability. Just compare:

In WW2 we generated all our electricity using coal we mined ourselves, so were self-sufficient 24/365.

Now our coal generation has been run right down and we no longer mine for it, importing all our coal.

We rely on around 10% of our current coming from French nuclear energy through cross channel cables.

We generate substantial quantities of current using natural gas imported from around the world.

We burn woodchip in some ex coal-burning stations, mainly using imported woodchip, or that grown on land we'll need for food in any future war.

Our nuclear power stations fleet has been run right down and in any case, we have to import the fuel.

And the rest from wind that might or might not be blowing when we need it.

Quite simply, we could not survive another WW2 as things stand at present.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

We'll be in deep trouble power wise in any repeat of WW2, regardless of this vulnerability. Just compare:

In WW2 we generated all our electricity using coal we mined ourselves, so were self-sufficient 24/365.

Now our coal generation has been run right down and we no longer mine for it, importing all our coal.

We rely on around 10% of our current coming from French nuclear energy through cross channel cables.

We generate substantial quantities of current using natural gas imported from around the world.

We burn wooddchip in some ex coal-burning stations, mainly using imported woodchip, or that grown on land we'll need for food in any future war.

Our nuclear power stations fleet has been run right down and in any case, we have to import the fuel.

And the rest from wind that might or might not be blowing when we need it.

Quite simply, we could not survive another WW2 as things stand at present.
.

OK, that was the GOOD NEWS......
There is however reason for optimism, WE may have no means of making steel weapons, but we can still grow Yew trees and make Longbows, and after Brexit there will be lots of spare youthful patriots we can train in their use.
The Bodkins to tip the arrows can be made from the surplus scrap from all the diesel cars no one wants any more.

 

[flecc]

OK, that was the GOOD NEWS......

Actually it really was the good news!

In our present plight any repeat of WW2 would finish us within a year, not the long drawn out agony of the last one.

And if nuclear missiles are used against us, make that a week.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

And the rest from wind that might or might not be blowing when we need it.

Gotta take issue with that flecc, the wind has always come to the rescue, just look at what happened to the Spanish Armada.
This is a sore point to the family as one of my ancestors was on one of the ships wrecked off Scotland and taken prisoner.

 

[oldgroaner]

Actually it really was the good news!

In our present plight any repeat of WW2 would finish us within a year, not the long drawn out agony of the last one.

And if nuclear missiles are used against us, make that a week.
.

Does that mean it will take the enemy a week to remember we are here?
For Shame! I was expecting a "While you wait" result rather than being relegated to an after thought, or is that one of the benefits of Brexit?

Well now, fancy that! Brexit will guarantee a few more days of existence in suspense, a positive benefit at last!

 

[shemozzle999]

Who have we declared war on or who have declared war against us?

 

[oldgroaner]

Who have we declared war on or who have declared war against us?

Is that a historical question?, if so it's a very long list, at the moment we are engaged in several undeclared wars against organisation's rather than nations



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