Let us hope that whichever way you voted, that you at least are not the one to feel bad about it afterwards.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Of course that means accepting in principle that any future Government will have a policy to stop immigration, but why should they? this has been promised before.
Perhaps you should base yoour view of Europe as it is now. Go stay in Greece, Spain , France and drive around place rather than base opinion on what you think uk was like pre eu..
As for posting to inform ,educate others that's bestowing a position of better knowledge, experience than other posters. Might be case, I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.
Apart from your assumed position of greater knowledge your posts make sense, but still disagree.
OR..... You made the wrong vote, please try again!
OR...... Don't worry, the government will ignore the result anyway
OR ......Referendum 2 is no the way so no problem
OR...... So we will re-negotiate with EU led by that fine negotiator Mr Cameron, and get less than we got last time
OR ..... Finally we wholeheartedly join the EU, but dammit it collapses for another reason........... Watch this space
If there's a Brexit vote, this is very likely.
The EU will never collapse. It might well split into a two level system or it might lose a few members, but the following core will remain intact. Germany, France, The Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and the new Eastern bloc countries will ensure that they at least remain the EU.
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Two level system is good, The Euro area with full Fiscal and political union and the rest, outside the Euro but part of the Common market, and outside of Free movement area so accommodating new entrants, even Turkey
Frankly this is basically what we are asking for and helps Spain, Italy and Greece Portugal to be more competitive with the Germans with floating currency and less restrictions. I heard this was under consideration, why don't they just get on with it?
Actually i do recall what Europe was like pre EU, back so far in fact to it being in ruins shortly after the war,as was Kingston Upon Hull where I was born during the war.
As to the charge of better knowledge, that's easy to counter, don't simply believe what the media tell you as it's quite simple to check the facts these days.
To the Charge of better experience, well, I was there, does that count, and those things I spoke of I experienced.
It is your prerogative to doubt, but since checking doesn't seem to matter to you, how safe is that to do? is it for instance safe to accept the words of these two charlatans, Gove and Boris, when Gove states that the EU prevented him getting rid of foreign convicted criminals, yet if you check the EU rules say exactly the opposite? He has the power to do so.
Why not check and see whether I was simply reporting the truth, or does your assumption I am "assuming a position of greater knowledge" somehow mean you have no need to find out the truth?
I wasn't trying to "Talk down to you" but get you to ask some questions yourself, who knows perhaps you are correct, but have you checked?
The reason my posts make sense is that they are truthful and I check the things in the media for accuracy before judging them.
Here's one for you, check the EU regulation on Draining Rivers and find out why the Brexit people claim "The EU won't let us drain our Rivers and prevent flooding"
And when you find out what the EU regulations actually require, and why, do let me know how you got on.
Great fun, and do I take it you think this could be (dare one say it) a Rigged Vote?
Rigged is a loaded phrase, but it is being heavily manipulated by camerons tactics which I find truly despicable.
Up to now I voted for him and respected him. since his surprising 2nd term win he frankly seems to have lost the plot
- Offering a referendum to placate Tory party members even though he clearly did not want one
- Setting up a negotiation which he would personally handle. what a deception and waste of time
- Embarking on the fear campaign to correct his previous mis judgements and frankly disrespecting the public in the process
- He already declared he would not stand at the next election so presumably he thinks he has nothing to lose. Except the support of the tory party and the public. He might survive ironically if we vote Brexit, but if not he's toast
I think not. I think it's more likely that Johnson and Gove are going to be toast before Cameron. The majority of conservative MPs are not isolationists like Brexiters. They dropped Enoch Powell before, they'll drop Gove, Johnson and and IDS after the referendum. The Brexiters have already played their best immigration card. Now the remainers can unpick it slowly in the running up to 23rd June. At the bottom of the immigration debate, there is only one point that remainers have to conceed, we'll control how much migrants will get in welfare after Brexit. Not the number, that's up to the demand of the economy and the rest can be mitigated. Remainers still have a strong card to play: labour voters.
The bookies reckon that there is an 80% chance that we'll remain.
The strangest thing of all to me is the utter silence on the subject from the EU parliament itself, the almost total "anti" attitude of the press, and the relatively modest effort being made by the "Remain" camp.
Anyone else feel the situation has become distant and remote in some respects?
The atmosphere is one of "Waiting for something to happen."
Calm before the storm, perhaps?
Your thoughts?
Anyone else feel the situation has become distant and remote in some respects?
The atmosphere is one of "Waiting for something to happen."
Calm before the storm, perhaps?
Your thoughts?
I think they are wise enough to know that any intervention from them could have a very negative effect on the British public.
Remember the immediate anti response when Angela Merkel recently spoke in favour of remain?
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And of course they could well be so fed up of us they are waiting with hankies out to wave a fond farewell?
They won't miss our Middle Eastern wars as American Stooges creating turmoil in the area resulting in waves of refugees, so could quite possibly be relieved to see the back of us.
How quaint that the Brexit supporters blame EU freedom of movement for the wave of refugees and not only blame the EU for sending them, but if you read the Daily Mail, want now to shoot them and their boats in the channel.
If we do choose Brexit then realise this was a mistake, one of the first restrictions they are likely to impose as a condition for a return is no more stupid bush wars in support of America.
And here's as it said in the old HG Wells Novel and film
"The shape of things to come"
Vote Brexit and this sort of thing will be the norm, just I might add as I remember it was late 1950's with regard to industrial relations.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/08/inhumane-sports-direct-mike-ashley-workforce
Been there, done that, didn't like it much, will you?
And for possibly the first time in his life Cameron had an "OFF" day and was caught telling not ONE truth, but a string of them!!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/07/eu-referendum-fact-check-david-cameron-leave-campaign-claims
Politicians telling the truth? well now that's truly a new one!
And perhaps even more amazing, it looks as if the Guardian is actually moving over to the remain camp.
Well I never! a newspaper concerned with the truth...I must be dreaming....
Not that it will matter when minds are firmly made up already....
"The shape of things to come"
Vote Brexit and this sort of thing will be the norm, just I might add as I remember it was late 1950's with regard to industrial relations.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/08/inhumane-sports-direct-mike-ashley-workforce
Been there, done that, didn't like it much, will you?
And for possibly the first time in his life Cameron had an "OFF" day and was caught telling not ONE truth, but a string of them!!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/07/eu-referendum-fact-check-david-cameron-leave-campaign-claims
Politicians telling the truth? well now that's truly a new one!
And perhaps even more amazing, it looks as if the Guardian is actually moving over to the remain camp.
Well I never! a newspaper concerned with the truth...I must be dreaming....
Not that it will matter when minds are firmly made up already....
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Even the wildlife appears to be coming to terms with the fact that the prospects for the UK are better in the EU than competing with it.
https://www.rspb.org.uk/joinandhelp/campaignwithus/referendum/
https://www.rspb.org.uk/joinandhelp/campaignwithus/referendum/
the Guardian did its own poll, 92% of its readers vote to remain, only 8% vote to leave while 92% of the Express readers want to leave.
You are substantially what you read.
You are substantially what you read.
Which is one of the reasons I stopped reading newspapers in 1972.
Far from being guardians of freedom, if anything they've menaced it.
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