Woosh or Raleigh?

[steve2k]

So I'm torn between the Whoosh Camino and the Raleigh Motus and looking for opinions or alternatives.

I'm 110kg, 5'8 and I'm looking for a bike to commute on so it needs to be able to carry me and probably 10kg of luggage.

My budget is £1500.

My route to work is either 8 miles of rolling tarmac hills or 4 miles of tarmac hills followed by 2 miles of hilly forest track.

So I think the Whoosh big bear is out as I worry about the front hub motor on the forest track (gravel, mud, tree roots).

The Whoosh camino has a rear hub, the Raleigh has a crank drive. I think I prefer the idea of crank drive (I have the impression it's better for a fat bloke on a hill), but Whoosh have been great at answering questions and offering advice.

I can't test drive the woosh as I cant get to the store. I could probably text the Raleigh but I have nothing to compare it to.

In all honesty I'm sure either of them will be fine but as I don't really know what I'm doing I thought I'd ask for opinions.

Feel free to chip in.

 

[Woosh]

The hub drive when it works ,does give a welcome Woosh

woosh woosh!
what do you mean when it works?
You kept your Urban Mover too long! if you had replaced it with my Rio MTB, you could have shared the same bike with your wife.

The Woosh Rio MTB | Massive power and advanced components

The new Woowsh Rio MTB is a high performance, high specs e-bike, 100mm magnesium suspension fork, GXP crankset, hydraulic brakes front and rear, semi-hidden battery, hi-speed hub motor, 22kgs.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[Danidl]

woosh woosh!
what do you mean when it works?
You kept your Urban Mover too long! if you had replaced it with my Rio MTB, you could have shared the same bike with your wife.

The Woosh Rio MTB | Massive power and advanced components

The new Woowsh Rio MTB is a high performance, high specs e-bike, 100mm magnesium suspension fork, GXP crankset, hydraulic brakes front and rear, semi-hidden battery, hi-speed hub motor, 22kgs.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Regrettably your company has no presence in my country. Which is why I bought the Forme for my wife.
The hub motor could stall on a very steep slope where the torque is less than the work required. A Crank motor can have any torque delivered to the wheel, depending only on the diameter of the rear gear.
Yes .. I tend to keep bikes beyond what is reasonable.. the UM24 ,joins my 1960s Moulton Standard and my 1976 Viscount Aerospace ,in my French summer home... Currently off limits in Morbihan

 

[Woosh]

The hub motor could stall on a very steep slope where the torque is less than the work required. A Crank motor can have any torque delivered to the wheel, depending only on the diameter of the rear gear.

at the time of your UM, the controller was doing 10A @36v and some bikes even had it as low as 10A @ 24V. Now, the usual norm is 17A @ 36V and nobody uses 24V system anymore. I sell even a fair number of 48V 17A kits.
That explains why hub bikes used to stall on steep hills. Not so often now.

 

[RobF]

On the flat, yes.

I wonder how long you'd keep your bike if your motor were the weedy 40NM original Bosch AL DU instead of the 75NM CX,

My AVE has the original Bosch Classic motor.

No idea how much grunt that was supposed to have, but in use it's not so different to my later Bosch motors.

All of which are relatively weedy compared to others, both hub and crank.

People will be attracted by bigger numbers but there is a big question mark on how each manufacturer measures the figures, and therefore a need to cautious on their use for comparison.

A physics professor told me that.

LOL, as we used to say on the internet.

 

[Woosh]

My AVE has the original Bosch Classic motor.

No idea how much grunt that was supposed to have, but in use it's not so different to my later Bosch motors.

Your AVE has 20" wheels, the Motus 700C.
With the same motor and gear ratio, torque goes up on smaller wheels. For example, if you fit the Motus with 700 x 28 tyres and the AVE with 20 x 1.95 tryes, with the same motor, the Motus will have 36NM while the AVE will have 36NM * 2136mm (circumference of the Motus tyres)/1565mm (circumference of the AVE tyres) = 49.13NM - that's the Active Line Plus performance just because the AVE has smaller tyres.

 

[Woosh]

People will be attracted by bigger numbers but there is a big question mark on how each manufacturer measures the figures, and therefore a need to cautious on their use for comparison.

I can answer that question. For CD motors, the measurement is standardised to Bosch method of measurement. no cheating. That is, the rear cog having the same number of teeth as the chainring.
Hub motors torque is affected by the Kv constant, which is proportional to the inverse of motor winding code. So when I say I optimise my motor for 15mph, that means I ask for the winding such that torque is highest at just under 15mph.
As the number of teeth on the rear cog can be selected within a range, you can calculate the torque for each selected speed. The more teeth at the rear, higher the torque.
The Raleigh Motus has 12T-32T cassette, the Active Line as 35T chainring.
So when you are on turbo mode and the granny gear 1, 32T, your maximum torque is 40NM*32T/36T=36NM
And when you shift up to the smallest cog, 12T, you get:
40NM*12T/36T=13.3NM

In comparison, the Camino will give you 42NM across 6mph-15mph, no matter what gear you are on.

 

[RobF]

I can answer that question. For CD motors, the measurement is standardised to Bosch method of measurement. no cheating. That is, the rear cog having the same number of teeth as the chainring.
Hub motors torque is affected by the Kv constant, which is proportional to the inverse of motor winding code. So when I say I optimise my motor for 15mph, that means I ask for the winding such that torque is highest at just under 15mph.
As the number of teeth on the rear cog can be selected within a range, you can calculate the torque for each selected speed. The more teeth at the rear, higher the torque.
The Raleigh Motus has 12T-32T cassette, the Active Line as 35T chainring.
So when you are on turbo mode and the granny gear 1, 32T, your maximum torque is 40NM*32T/36T=36NM
And when you shift up to the smallest cog, 12T, you get:
40NM*12T/36T=13.3NM

In comparison, the Camino will give you 42NM across 6mph-15mph, no matter what gear you are on.

To me, this shows your Camino may be a little more pokey than the weakest Bosch motor, but close to about the same when compared to the most powerful Bosch motor.

Which is what I as a non-technical numpty would expect.

The differences are not as great so as to justify them as a reason to choose one bike over the other, so you need to look elsewhere.

 

[Woosh]

The differences are not as great so as to justify them as a reason to choose one bike over the other, so you need to look elsewhere.

that is true for choosing between hub and crank motors.
However, choosing an appropriate motor size is still important. The OP weighs 17st, he needs a medium to high torque range depending on how hilly his area is.
That is a bike fitted with Bosch Active Line Plus/CX or one of my bikes fitted with Bafang SWX02.
His initial choice was the Rambla which is a perfect compromise for him.

The Rambla | Powerful Crank Drive Step Through Electric Bikes with 14AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambla is the most recent step through bike from Woosh with a large 36V * 14AH semi-hidden battery, Bafang powerful MaxDrive motor, will suit tall, sporty riders.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[PP100]

I've just realised the Rambla is a different (not just by price) bike to the Rambletta.
The Rambla isn't linked on the website from the main bikes list or main menu or in the online shop so it's hard to find by chance . I've never seen it til you just now directly linked to it. I am aware now, it's unavailable til May - I had confused that unavailability with the Rambletta.

 

[Ocsid]

that is true for choosing between hub and crank motors.
However, choosing an appropriate motor size is still important. The OP weighs 17st, he needs a medium to high torque range depending on how hilly his area is.
That is a bike fitted with Bosch Active Line Plus/CX or one of my bikes fitted with Bafang SWX02.
His initial choice was the Rambla which is a perfect compromise for him.

The Rambla | Powerful Crank Drive Step Through Electric Bikes with 14AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambla is the most recent step through bike from Woosh with a large 36V * 14AH semi-hidden battery, Bafang powerful MaxDrive motor, will suit tall, sporty riders.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Now I am confused, the Rambla link quoted takes you to text on the Rambla, but images of the Rambletta ?

 

[Woosh]

Now I am confused, the Rambla link quoted takes you to text on the Rambla, but images of the Rambletta ?

the Rambla is the 700C bike, the Rambletta is the little 20" folding bike.
They have the same style, but Rambla has Bafang MaxDrive CD motor, Rambletta has rear hub motor.

Rambla: 700C wheels, Bafang Max Drive motor

Rambletta: 20" wheels, foldable, rear hub motor

 

[PP100]

Now I am confused, the Rambla link quoted takes you to text on the Rambla, but images of the Rambletta ?

No, the link you posted just before the to the Rambla is to the Rambla - but as I said, it's the first time in browsing your site since I found your site , that I have seen it - there is no other link on your site to it - so it is "hidden" - if it's not available til May, OK . you may not want to link it on your site , potentially for reference or future order at all? But casual visitors to your website, like myself and many others, won't see it at all.
So I had never seen the Rambla or knew it existed, til it was suggested in this thread (but initially assumed early in the thread that the Rambla was a shortened or mispelt reference to the Rambletta) but got confused when the higher price of the Ramba was referred to as well -
Obviously from the link I can see the Rambla is a different bike which looks partially similar but very basically is a higher spec/larger wheeled non folding version of the Rhambletta (or vice versa).
Hence the confusion.


Edited to add; I see now you have added a direct menu link to the Rambla .