Woosh Woosh Big Bear LS - too much assistance!

[nigelbb]

Last year I bought a used very low mileage & excellent condition Woosh Big Bear LS https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?bigbear-ls. I initially had a problem with a missing key that I resolved with jiggler keys on a recommendation from this forum https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/lost-keys-what-can-be-done.38980/

What with one thing & another I have barely had a chance to use the bike since I bought it but have now taken it out for a couple of runs. It's a nice bike but the electric assistance is just too damn much! It has a massive front hub motor & cadence sensor if I set the power to 1 (on a scale of 1 to 5) I have a little resistance when I pedal but on 2 or above I barely need to push the pedals round & it just pulls like a train up to 15-16mph. For all the exercise I get I may as well just use the throttle.

I'm not sure whether I've just been spoiled by my most recent acquisition a Wisper 705 Torque that gives very nice feedback at the pedals & lets me have as much or as little assistance as I like. I just can't seem to get a happy medium between a bit of resistance at the pedals so I'm not just pushing air & the bike flying away at top speed with no effort from me. Maybe it's just the wrong bike for me? I'm 6' tall & 90kg so perhaps if I were heavier & less fit it might suit me better or if I was using it with a trailer on the back.

Any suggestions?

 

[Woosh]

you can get a 14A controller for it that does not give so much assistance.

 

[vfr400]

The problem is that you have a controller with speed control, so you always get max power until you aproach the speed elative to each level in the LCD. What you need is a controller that uses current control (=power comtrol), where each level on the LCD relates to a different power level, which means that you can turn the power up or down to a level that suits you.

A new controller aand LCD with current control costs about £80 and requires a small amount of wiring aaaaand soldering to install.

 

[Benjahmin]

The Big Bear has a reputation for, 'pulling like a train', it's kinda what it's meant to do.
As for it pulling up to 15mph, I don't understand. My missus uses hers in level 2 or 3 and never gets to cut off speed, and I'm always waiting for her. I'd say she's doing between 9 and 13 mph in very hilly Wales. From that I'm guessing that you're actually quite a fit and capable cyclist and/or the terrain you ride is relatively flat and the Big Bear is not for you.

 

[vfr400]

The Big Bear has a reputation for, 'pulling like a train', it's kinda what it's meant to do.
As for it pulling up to 15mph, I don't understand. My missus uses hers in level 2 or 3 and never gets to cut off speed, and I'm always waiting for her. I'd say she's doing between 9 and 13 mph in very hilly Wales. From that I'm guessing that you're actually quite a fit and capable cyclist and/or the terrain you ride is relatively flat and the Big Bear is not for you.

Big Bear has a relatively powerful motor that's under speed control, which isn't a good recipe for controllable power. It's OK if you're heavy and/or need a lot of power most of the time, but if you want to ride with low power sometimes, you need current control, like you get from KT controllers.

The 14A controller will help a bit if you never need high power, but you'll get only 80% of the power you had before for climbing steep hills. A current controll controller, goes right down to about 2 amps on level 1, but will still give 17A (or whatever you want) on level 5.

 

[Woosh]

if anyone wants to experiment with current control, ask Mechaniker - he may have the software to change the parameters of the Lishui controller.
Another source is the opensource bike firmware project:
https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development/Motor_controllers--Other_controllers--Lishui_motor_controllers--LSW-675.html

 

[nigelbb]

The Big Bear has a reputation for, 'pulling like a train', it's kinda what it's meant to do.
As for it pulling up to 15mph, I don't understand. My missus uses hers in level 2 or 3 and never gets to cut off speed, and I'm always waiting for her. I'd say she's doing between 9 and 13 mph in very hilly Wales. From that I'm guessing that you're actually quite a fit and capable cyclist and/or the terrain you ride is relatively flat and the Big Bear is not for you.

I'm not a particularly fit or capable cyclist & it would make precious little difference if I was. On level 1 it rapidly gets to 12-13mph with some light pedalling. On level 2 it very quickly gets to 15-16mph with even lighter pedalling. Level 3-5 are the same as level 2.

I am cycling in North Essex so the terrain is relatively flat.

I am reaching the conclusion that the Big Bear might not be for me. It's a shame as it's comfortable, in great condition & the battery is sound.

 

[nigelbb]

Big Bear has a relatively powerful motor that's under speed control, which isn't a good recipe for controllable power. It's OK if you're heavy and/or need a lot of power most of the time, but if you want to ride with low power sometimes, you need current control, like you get from KT controllers.

The 14A controller will help a bit if you never need high power, but you'll get only 80% of the power you had before for climbing steep hills. A current controll controller, goes right down to about 2 amps on level 1, but will still give 17A (or whatever you want) on level 5.

I understand the difference between cadence & torque sensors but wasn't aware of the difference between speed & current controllers. I now have a Wisper 705 Torque & that's the most natural feeling e-bike I have ridden but that is at our place in France.

Do you have a link to a suitable controller? What would be involved in fitting it? I think the ideal for me would be to have a torque controller but I'm not sure if that is possible.

 

[nigelbb]

if anyone wants to experiment with current control, ask Mechaniker - he may have the software to change the parameters of the Lishui controller.
Another source is the opensource bike firmware project:
https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development/Motor_controllers--Other_controllers--Lishui_motor_controllers--LSW-675.html

Sorry but that is completely over my head. I just want the bike to be a bit more responsive feedback-wise. I might be better cutting my losses selling the Big Bear LS & putting the money towards a bike that feels more natural.

 

[vfr400]

I understand the difference between cadence & torque controllers but wasn't aware of the difference between speed & current controllers. I now have a Wisper 705 Torque & that's the most natural feeling e-bike I have ridden but that is at our place in France.

Do you have a link to a suitable controller? What would be involved in fitting it? I think the ideal for me would be to have a torque controller but I'm not sure if that is possible.

We use KT controllers, which come in a range of sizes and powers. The 14A and 15A ones are the smallest. The 17A can be the same as the 15A ones or slightly bigger. The 20A one is slightly bigger than the 15A ones and the 22A (9FET) ones are bifgger still. When choosing one, you have to think about how and where you're going to install it.

There are also two versions of connectors. One has the waterproof type with a sinle harness going to the handlebars. The other type has individual cables and block connectors, which is the cversion I prefer.

That means you have to decide the amount of maximum current bearing in mind the size of the controller, the type of harness and connector, and whether sinewave (sensored) or squarewave (sensorless).

Your throttle, PAS, motor and brakes will all work with all versions of the sine wave ones unless you have a sensorless motor, in which case you need the square wave one that can work sensorless.

You find KT controllers on Ebay, Aliexpress, Amazon, Banggood or buy them from Chinese resellers, like BMSbattery, Greenbikekit, PSWPower, Topbikekit, etc. They don't normally mention KT, so you have to learn to recognise them from the label. You have to buy an LCD from the same supplier to make sure they match. The LCD will have a name LCD1, LCD3, LCD4, LCD5, LCD8. If you search for people selling them, they'll probaly sell the controller to go with them.

Other connectors are optional. You'll probably have to change a connector or two or cut them off and solder the wires.

I can answer a lot more of your questions if you show the wires connected to your controller and the connectors.

 

[Woosh]

I can answer a lot more of your questions if you show the wires connected to your controller and the connectors.

the Big Bear LS's controller has standard JST connectors.
Brake levers & throttle are fitted with standard Julet connectors and Julet waterproof trunking cable.
It's quite easy to change over to KT kit.

 

[nigelbb]

By way of comparison I rode one of my other e-bikes yesterday afternoon a Woosh Sundowner https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?sundowner This felt much more natural to pedal & I was never in the situation where there was no resistance on the pedals.
I don't know whether that is because the motor is less powerful or the controller is different but changing the level of assistance really did provide different degrees of assistance rather than the all or nothing approach of the Big Bear.

 

[Woosh]

If you are happy with the Sundowner then the Bear is not the right bike.
the motor on the Big Bear is much bigger and nearly twice as heavy.
I recommend the Big Bear to riders weighing between 17st and 25st.
You can advertise your Big Bear LS on our website for free. They usually sell within a week.

PS: if you still have the Sundowner handy, the controller on the Sundowner is plug compatible with the Big Bear LS. Same with the Santana3.
The Sundowner's controller is 14A, good for up to 13st.
The Santana3 controller is 17A, good for up to 16st.

 

[Nealh]

Big Bear uses the Bafang Bpm it is an excellant powerful hub motor, that is where it's strength lies power. It would be shame to tame one with a lesser controller (current wise).

 

[belfastbiker]

the bike seems not to be available, I'm 326 lbs, and it sounds like just the bike for me starting out. Any similarly powerful bikes which pull above their weight?

 

[Cad205]

The Big Bear has a reputation for, 'pulling like a train', it's kinda what it's meant to do.
As for it pulling up to 15mph, I don't understand. My missus uses hers in level 2 or 3 and never gets to cut off speed, and I'm always waiting for her. I'd say she's doing between 9 and 13 mph in very hilly Wales. From that I'm guessing that you're actually quite a fit and capable cyclist and/or the terrain you ride is relatively flat and the Big Bear is not for you.

I have to agree. I've just bought one for the wife and it's ridden exactly you you said, level 2-3 and 9-13mph. Used in hilly Cornwall She loves it!

 

[nigelbb]

the bike seems not to be available, I'm 326 lbs, and it sounds like just the bike for me starting out. Any similarly powerful bikes which pull above their weight?

I'm the OP & the bike will be advertised for sale on the Woosh website next month when I get back from France. I am in Essex but as your forum name is belfastbiker I assume that buying mine is not an option due to our locations.

 

[Turkeylegs]

It's a shame your not suited to the Bear as its a cracking bike.
When I first got mine I found similar as you, but I just knock it down an assist level or two to get a smoother pick up on power to the speed I'm cycling.
But the extra power is great for me, I love being able to get up any hill with ease and can work as little or as much as I want just by turning the assist down. When on assist five it is an all or nothing boost but I soon got used to it and love it.
Maybe giving it a few more rides and using assist 2 and cycling to that assist speed and just over might be smoother for you?
But like I said it's a shame as its a great bike.
As a 20 stone rider on full assist I get about 30 miles range with very easy and enjoyable riding too if I choose to not cycle with effort.