Wisper 805FE 2012 adding throttle and unrestriciton

[patpatbut]

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know what controller does 805 FE use?

I am planning to add throttle and get it unrestricted.

Is it actually possible for this bike?

Many thanks.
Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's possible on nearly any bike. Just get a new controller, throttle and pedal sensor from Greenbikekit.com or bmsbattery.com for about £20 and it's guaranteed to work; however, just look at your controller to see if it has a spare three-wire connector for the throttle, and then you'll know.

 

[patpatbut]

It's possible on nearly any bike. Just get a new controller, throttle and pedal sensor from Greenbikekit.com or bmsbattery.com for about £20 and it's guaranteed to work; however, just look at your controller to see if it has a spare three-wire connector for the throttle, and then you'll know.

Hi again d8veh

Do I need a new pedal sensor because of the new controller?

Can you tell me what does the three-wire connector look like at the controller?

Also, I try to find this throttle

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/T-Thumb.jpg

Do you know how can I get it from uk?

Thanks.
Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Wisper PAS might work with a BMSBattery controller, but the PAS is so cheap that you can get a new one and be sure. They also sell that same throttle, which costs about £2 if you get it with the controller.
The Wisper has one of those manifolds at the steering head that the wires go into, I've no idea what's at the controller end, but I'd assume multi-pin connectors, so you'd probably have to hack into the wires to see if there's spare ones for the throttle. It might be better to ask Wisper first if they have one that you can plug in directly. Is there a spare socket on the manifold?
Maybe something like this:
Elebike Carrie Type Conversion E-bike Kit Sales, Buy Elebike Carrie Type Conversion E-bike Kit Products from alibaba.com

 

[patpatbut]

The Wisper PAS might work with a BMSBattery controller, but the PAS is so cheap that you can get a new one and be sure. They also sell that same throttle, which costs about £2 if you get it with the controller.
The Wisper has one of those manifolds at the steering head that the wires go into, I've no idea what's at the controller end, but I'd assume multi-pin connectors, so you'd probably have to hack into the wires to see if there's spare ones for the throttle. It might be better to ask Wisper first if they have one that you can plug in directly. Is there a spare socket on the manifold?
Maybe something like this:
Elebike Carrie Type Conversion E-bike Kit Sales, Buy Elebike Carrie Type Conversion E-bike Kit Products from alibaba.com

Thanks. I prefer the simple thumb throttle like that photo but it is not easy to find.

I have checked the manifold but it does not have the spare socket total three (two for the brakes and one for the led controller)

I have pm Dave about this but he has not received to me yet. has he been busy?

Pat

 

[Tinker]

Hi again d8veh

Do I need a new pedal sensor because of the new controller?

Can you tell me what does the three-wire connector look like at the controller?

Also, I try to find this throttle

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/T-Thumb.jpg

Do you know how can I get it from uk?

Thanks.
Pat

I have just purchase one like that from Alien Bikes Electric Bicycles - Online Shop - Accessories
it's a superbly well made bit of kit and brilliant customer service, however it's just the throttle/wires no grips as in the ebikes.ca picture.

 

[patpatbut]

Hi Tinker

What connector does it have? Is it the standard JST 3 pin?

Pat

 

[Tinker]

It just has the 3 wires terminating in pins, no plastic plug.
I'll try and post a photo later.

 

[patpatbut]

Thanks. I have received an email from Steve.

"Although the controller fitted to the 805fe does have a 3-pin connector that would appear to be for a throttle - the main wiring loom and front electrical manifold on the 805fe does not accommodate a throttle. As it is not an intended config for the 805fe we have not tested it.

As regards de-restriction (for off-road purposes only) – the controller has two white wires which are normally joined via a small snap connector loop, when fitted, the speed is set to the maximum road legal speed of 25kmh, with the loop removed the max powered speed is increased to 30kmh. If the loop is already missing your dealer may have already removed it.

Regards, Steve"

How important does the manifold? Can I just connect the throttle to the 3 pin connector without the manifold?

Any advice?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes, you should be able to run the cable down the frame to the controller. You'd have to look at it to see that there's a way through, otherwise you'll have to make a way for it. The manifold only tidies the wiring so that one wire runs down the frame instead of several.

 

[patpatbut]

I have just purchase one like that from Alien Bikes Electric Bicycles - Online Shop - Accessories
it's a superbly well made bit of kit and brilliant customer service, however it's just the throttle/wires no grips as in the ebikes.ca picture.

Hi Tinker,

Forgot to ask. how long is the cable do they provide? Is it for left or right handlebar?

Pat

 

[patpatbut]

Yes, you should be able to run the cable down the frame to the controller. You'd have to look at it to see that there's a way through, otherwise you'll have to make a way for it. The manifold only tidies the wiring so that one wire runs down the frame instead of several.

Thanks. For my 805fe seems a bit under power (36v 9Ah), Eddie from the Electric transport shop said he can recell the battery to make it 36 14A. For dimension wise, how could that possible?

Also, I know my battery is Panasonic 18650, how does it compare with LifePo4? I believe the latter is better. Would LifePo4 work for 805FE?

Pat

 

[patpatbut]

Can anyone help me with tihs?

Thanks
Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

OK, let's just take a step back to see what your problems are and get a bit of background info.
Is this right? You've bought a Wisper 805fe and you like the bike, but find it a bit under-powered. You would also like to fit a throttle. Is there anything else because you may be able to wrap everything up in one simple change? When you say "under power", do you mean hill-climbing, speed or both?

Re-celling a new battery seems a bit extreme. How much will it cost? I bet a full-power replacement battery will be cheaper.

What's in the battery is not particularly important, what's more important is how far it'll go and how much current it can give. Anybody know the discharge rate of Wisper batteries? Surely not they're still using crappy 1C Li-ion cells?

Don't do anything just yet. Let's get some answers to these questions and then we can advise you what to do.

 

[patpatbut]

OK, let's just take a step back to see what your problems are and get a bit of background info.
Is this right? You've bought a Wisper 805fe and you like the bike, but find it a bit under-powered. You would also like to fit a throttle. Is there anything else because you may be able to wrap everything up in one simple change? When you say "under power", do you mean hill-climbing, speed or both?

Re-celling a new battery seems a bit extreme. How much will it cost? I bet a full-power replacement battery will be cheaper.

What's in the battery is not particularly important, what's more important is how far it'll go and how much current it can give. Anybody know the discharge rate of Wisper batteries? Surely not they're still using crappy 1C Li-ion cells?

Don't do anything just yet. Let's get some answers to these questions and then we can advise you what to do.

Thanks Dave. I am pretty happy with it and I am using it everyday for my nearly flat commute route.
As there is no hill to climb I would like to gain more speed for getting to my work place a bit quick by adding more speed to it.

As it is 15 miles each way, I get tired in between so the throttle would help me to relax a bit before pedalling again.

For the battery 36v 9Ah I have, I have noticed the range has gone down and I check the full charged battery with volt meter it says 40.8v, is it normal?

I believe 36v 14Ah would be sufficient and Eddie could get me full-power replacement battery (not re-cellling) with this capacity which sounds very good to me.

Also, I have found a post regarding to different types of battery and it seems LifePo4 can give a constant voltage output and panasonic can give better range but the speed goes down gradually. For my purpose, LifePo4 is better.

Thanks again hope you can show me some light.
Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

40.8v is too low hot off the charger. 42v would be more like it. It sounds like your battery is out of balance for whatever reason. How old is the bike? Is the battery not still under warranty if it's a 2012 model? When the battery's out of balance, it gives the effect of less capacity because charging will stop when the highest cell reaches max, leaving the remainder not fully charged. Then when going down, it'll cut out when the lowest reaches minimum, leaving the remainder with charge left - so you lose twice. Check with Wisper if there's a balancing procedure - normally to leave it on charge for a long time after you get the green light.

The speed might not be so easy. First check at the controller if there's a pair of single white (or other colour) wires connected in a loop. If so, disconnect them and you'll get a few more mph. If not, you're limited by the motor, so getting a new battery won't help unless you get a 48v one, which will get you up to about 20mph, but, if you go that route, you have to be careful not to over-heat the motor by labouring it at low revs.

LiFePO does hold on to its voltage better, but only if you keep within its discharge rate recommendation, otherwise you get voltage sag, which is worse. An 8aH LiFePO4 rated at 1C will sag a lot. You need to go up to about 12 to 14aH to avoid sag, unless you get the higher discharge cells like A123 or Headway. Having said this, it's not right to make sweeping statements about batteries because so much development is going on at the moment. I'm sure Wisper have good batteries.

So, to summarise: Check for speed restriction and try and get your battery balanced. If it doesn't balance, take it up with Wisper. If after that you still don't have enough speed, consider a 48v battery. You may have to get a new controller, but try the Wisper one first - it'll probably take 48v.

 

[patpatbut]

40.8v is too low hot off the charger. 42v would be more like it. It sounds like your battery is out of balance for whatever reason. How old is the bike? Is the battery not still under warranty if it's a 2012 model? When the battery's out of balance, it gives the effect of less capacity because charging will stop when the highest cell reaches max, leaving the remainder not fully charged. Then when going down, it'll cut out when the lowest reaches minimum, leaving the remainder with charge left - so you lose twice. Check with Wisper if there's a balancing procedure - normally to leave it on charge for a long time after you get the green light.

The speed might not be so easy. First check at the controller if there's a pair of single white (or other colour) wires connected in a loop. If so, disconnect them and you'll get a few more mph. If not, you're limited by the motor, so getting a new battery won't help unless you get a 48v one, which will get you up to about 20mph, but, if you go that route, you have to be careful not to over-heat the motor by labouring it at low revs.

LiFePO does hold on to its voltage better, but only if you keep within its discharge rate recommendation, otherwise you get voltage sag, which is worse. An 8aH LiFePO4 rated at 1C will sag a lot. You need to go up to about 12 to 14aH to avoid sag, unless you get the higher discharge cells like A123 or Headway. Having said this, it's not right to make sweeping statements about batteries because so much development is going on at the moment. I'm sure Wisper have good batteries.

So, to summarise: Check for speed restriction and try and get your battery balanced. If it doesn't balance, take it up with Wisper. If after that you still don't have enough speed, consider a 48v battery. You may have to get a new controller, but try the Wisper one first - it'll probably take 48v.

Thanks a lot. I have the bike about a year and the warranty should be 2 years for battery. I always keep it charged to keep the battery happy.

For balancing the battery, I always leave the battery charged overnight and take it off from charge when I go to work in the morning so around 12 hours charging. Would that be long enough for balancing procedure?

What would happen if voltage sag occur? Would 36v 14aH lifepo4 be still a good choice to avoid that happen?

Thanks.
Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Generally, the bigger the battery (in aH), the more current they can give and the less sag. I don't know the balancing procedure for a Wisper battery. Perhaps someone else can help, but in any case, take it up with Wisper. If it's still under warranty, they'll soort it. There's lots of reasons a battery goes out of balance: Faulty BMS; balance wire broken off; worn cells; manufacturing errors; as well as the ones to do with charging and usage (normally lack of). Applying the balancing procedure only fixes the last ones.

Was your bike left unused for a few months before this range went down? That's the most common reason for battery going out of balance. It's often because cell 1 is used to power the BMS even when switched off. Often people panic and get a new battery when all they need to do is persevere, and everything will sort itself out. Sometimes it takes a several charges to get it back in balance

 

[patpatbut]

Generally, the bigger the battery (in aH), the more current they can give and the less sag. I don't know the balancing procedure for a Wisper battery. Perhaps someone else can help, but in any case, take it up with Wisper. If it's still under warranty, they'll soort it. There's lots of reasons a battery goes out of balance: Faulty BMS; balance wire broken off; worn cells; manufacturing errors; as well as the ones to do with charging and usage (normally lack of). Applying the balancing procedure only fixes the last ones.

Was your bike left unused for a few months before this range went down? That's the most common reason for battery going out of balance. It's often because cell 1 is used to power the BMS even when switched off. Often people panic and get a new battery when all they need to do is persevere, and everything will sort itself out. Sometimes it takes a several charges to get it back in balance

Thanks Dave. It was the first time I use to test the battery voltage so I am not sure what was the voltage before.

I used to ride the bike for short journey (2-3 miles total) so I did not notice the range problem. What I have done is to charge it everytime after every journey. I do not think I left my bike unused more than a month

Since May I have started to ride to work, I started to notice the range issue. I literally charge it every weekday at work and home (15 miles each way) because there is nearly no charge left after one journey. Also, I need to peddle hard to achieve this.

Do you think wisper can help me with this problem? As winter is coming and I need to cycle it to work. I do not think it lasts for one journey during winter.

Thanks
Pat

 

[NRG]

I think you have a faulty battery if range is only 15miles. Personally I would not leave it to charge overnight for 12 hrs. Lithium batteries don't like to be 'held' at full charge for long periods. I would fit one of those wall timers and set it for 5 hrs max on time, that should be more than enough time to charge and balance the battery.