Why were Full Throttles banned in 2016?

Just wondering, and what other changes were made?

Just wondering, and what other changes were made?

 

They weren't actually banned then, they had been unlawful since November 2003 when we were subject to the EU wide Two and Three Wheel Motor Vehicle Type Approval Law . That contained an exemption for pedelecs from being considered motor vehicles, subject to them only having a maximum 250 Watt rated motor which only operated when pedalling up to 25 kph (15.5mph). That pedalling requirement allowed them to remain as bicycles in law, subject only to bicycle law, rather than vehicles which could be solely propelled by a motor, i.e. Motor Vehicles subject to all the motor vehicle laws.

 

Unfortunately the DfT failed to implement the law correctly**, leaving us with old law and new law both falsely appearing to be in force, so pedelecs with full throttles continued to be illegally marketed in Great Britain for 12 further years. On the 6th April 2015 that was finally corrected by an amendment of the law, which, after allowing makers and dealers to clear old stock, meant a belated ban from 1st January 2016.

 

Other changes were that all weight limits were removed and Quad pedelecs were permitted, both to align us to European practice and to open up a cargo bike market.

 

** The EU order required all conflicting national law to be removed by 10th November 2003. All other EU countries did that correctly, Great Britain didn't. Worse still, we still haven't implemented the law correctly.

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Edited September 24, 20232 yr by flecc

Very interesting, thank you. What is the EU's position now? There must be millions of Bikes with Full Throttle in use by now...eg. Couriers

I believe the EU's position is quite strict; no throttles. This applies if you take you UK legal throttle bike to the EU. I read somewhere (probably on this forum) that France in particular is taking quite strong enforcement action; not sure how much that is for overpowered/overspeed motors and how much for throttles.

Why is it that Whoosh can sell Bikes with full Throttle?

Why is it that Whoosh can sell Bikes with full Throttle?

 

Because the onus is on the end user to comly with law of the land .

It not illegal to sell them but the use in the eyes of some, they should cease operation if one isn't pedalling.

 

It's much the same as buyinh a 1kw hub motor ,not illegal to buy only to use on the road. But as we see often many will buy and freely use them on the roads without consequences.

Even the guy (using a 1kw hub bike) who ran over a women in London walked free from court having been found not guilty.

But Whoosh says they are Legal...

Very interesting, thank you. What is the EU's position now? There must be millions of Bikes with Full Throttle in use by now...eg. Couriers

 

Not in mainland Europe. The obsession with having throttles is a peculiarly British one, thanks to that 12 years when so many of our e-bikes had them in error. Elsewhere in the EU, what they didn't have they didn't miss.

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But Whoosh says they are Legal...

 

That's a very loose interpretation of the the law which is incorrect. The law is quite clear, when pedalling stops, the power assistance must also stop.

 

Exemption (h):

 

Pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h.

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But Whoosh says they are Legal...

 

Throttles are not illegal on any ebike, and they never have been. The only rule that applies is that the power must stop when you stop pedalling unless you're going 6km/hr or less.

 

In other words, you can use a throttle to give independent speed/power up to 6km/hr, then continue to use it as a speed /power regulator above that speed as long as you're pedalling. There is no rule about how fast the pedals have to turn, nor how hard you have to pedal. Many ebike systems can be set to work like that.

The new law from 1/1/2016 stops manufacturers implementing twist and go throttles which let you start from standstill without pedalling. The throttle on my bikes are not twist and go. You have to pedal a bit before the throttle is activated. The throttle has also an on/off switch.

Edited September 25, 20232 yr by Woosh

The new law from 1/1/2016 stops manufacturers implementing twist and go throttles which let you start from standstill without pedalling. The throttle on my bikes are not twist and go. You have to pedal a bit before the throttle is activated. The throttle has also an on/off switch.

That's not correct. You can twist and go up to 6km/hr, then you can carry on twist and going as long as the pedals turn.

Wisper will upgrade any of their bikes to full throttle for £300. They claim that they are fully road legal in the UK.

 

https://wisperbikes.com/full-throttle-option/

Why is it that Whoosh can sell Bikes with full Throttle?

 

Does NOT make it legal.

Does NOT make it legal.

I explained already in post #11.

The new law from 1/1/2016 concerns only manufacturers, not the users. You can have a twist and go throttle on your converted or shop bought bike if you want, but as manufacturer, I am not allowed to install a twist and go throttle on bikes that I assemble. If I do, I have to get a £55 SVA approval on each bike that has a twist and go throttle.

I therefore stopped installing twist and go throttle since the 1/1/2016 law.

The throttle on my bikes are not twist and go. From standstill, you cannot start on throttle. You have to pedal first before the throttle is activated. The law does not say how much or how hard pedalling you have to do, just that the motor should stop when you stop pedalling. The throttle is seldomly useful but it's a godsend if you have a physical impediment when riding uphill or very slowly. The bikes with torque sensor (just google woosh Rambla) I sell do not have a throttle. The kits I sell have twist and go throttle.

Edited September 28, 20232 yr by Woosh

Wisper will upgrade any of their bikes to full throttle for £300. They claim that they are fully road legal in the UK.

 

https://wisperbikes.com/full-throttle-option/

 

They are permitted in the UK** because each one has been taken individually through Single Vehicle Approval as a sub class of L1e-A moped, named 250LPM. Therefore becoming a motor vehicle and no longer an assisted pedelec considered to be a bicycle in law.

 

But as a concession the DfT, and by agreement the British police forces, do consider them to be bicycles in law not needing registration. This is to satisfy the British demand for throttles ascertained in a consultation commenced 5th January 2010 and reported on in 2012. However they no longer comply with EU pedelec law so one cannot take them on the Eurostar or a ferry to the mainland continent unless the fully acting throttle is disabled and inactive.

 

**Northern Ireland has its own road traffic jurisdiction, but although they mainly followed Great Britain, pedelec law had not kept pace, in part due to periods of the N.I. Assembly not sitting. However on the 13th May 2020 their pedelec law was finally brought into full alignment with British law with the adoption of the mainland UK 1983 law as amended in 2015.

 

There remains however a possible anomally for N.I as far as I can see, since the permission for a 250LPM to still be considered a bicycle is by the single vehicle test being a British MSVA (Ministerial Single Vehicle Approval) rather than by statute. Therefore the N.I. Minister may need to issue a similar single vehicle permission to fully align within their devolved administration of road transport.

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Edited September 28, 20232 yr by flecc

Plain and simple

 

Police state ILLEGAL to have and use a throttle on a bike.

 

Having one means it is a motorbike, and 6 points on your licence and a fine

 

Lets cut the complicated chatter

Plain and simple

 

Police state ILLEGAL to have and use a throttle on a bike.

 

Having one means it is a motorbike, and 6 points on your licence and a fine

 

Lets cut the complicated chatter

where did you find that piece of information?

THe question has been debated since 2016 a number of times.

Plain and simple

 

Police state ILLEGAL to have and use a throttle on a bike.

 

Having one means it is a motorbike, and 6 points on your licence and a fine

 

Lets cut the complicated chatter

That's not true at all. Please don't mislead people when you don't know what you're talking about.

 

It's not at all complicated. All throttles are allowed. The only simple rule is that power must stop when you stop pedalling except when your speed is below 6km/hr. It's people like you that are confusing everybody.

Police state ILLEGAL to have and use a throttle on a bike.

Having one means it is a motorbike, and 6 points on your licence and a fine

 

The Police (in the UK) do not decide what is legal and what is not.

Plain and simple

 

Police state ILLEGAL to have and use a throttle on a bike.

 

Having one means it is a motorbike, and 6 points on your licence and a fine

 

Lets cut the complicated chatter

 

Will you please stop misleading people. You very obviously do not know the law on this subject and all the provisions that have been made.

 

I do know that law so thoroughly that I've use it to correct a major police force and later overrule the DfT when they wrongly advised that force that they could prosecute.

 

Showing that even the legal experts of the Department for Transport who draft the law don't know it all, simply because with the complexities of our national and international law, there are other laws which can and do overrule their transport laws.

 

Please click this link and read the long opening post of the thread. In particular read the section about a quarter way down headed:

 

Getting legal permission to have a fully acting "Twist and Go" throttle on a pedelec:

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I explained already in post #11.

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I therefore stopped installing twist and go throttle since the 1/1/2016 law.

The throttle on my bikes are not twist and go. From standstill, you cannot start on throttle. You have to pedal first before the throttle is activated. The law does not say how much or how hard pedalling you have to do, just that the motor should stop when you stop pedalling.

 

If I've got the throttle pressed on my Gran Camino, the motor does not cut out when I stop pedalling. So is it legal? Or have I misunderstood your post?

If I've got the throttle pressed on my Gran Camino, the motor does not cut out when I stop pedalling.

it's difficult to judge right how much run off between pedal sensor pulses. If you blip the brakes, you'll cut momentarily power to the motor. The throttle will then need re-activating with pedalling.

If I've got the throttle pressed on my Gran Camino, the motor does not cut out when I stop pedalling. So is it legal?

 

No it isn't legal, the exemption that permits a pedelec is very clear, the assist power must cease when pedalling stops.

 

However, when looking at the detail of the law it can be important to cut some slack in respect of the DfT who make the law, the police and those who sell the pedelecs. They are trying very hard within the confines of politics and the law we are stuck with to satisfy what pedelecers need.

 

Politically to maintain our all important trade with the EU we have to comply with EU transport law, which as a result is still fully in force here, despite our leaving the union.

 

So we have an impasse, the EU's no fully acting throttle law in conflict with our traditionally always having fully acting throttles. The DfT have done their utmost to resolve the problem and clearly are not at all sympathetic to that EU provision, so have provided the following work arounds:

 

1) Grandfather rights, meaning all pedelecs manufactured prior to 1st January 2016 when the EU law was implemented can have fully acting throttles indefinitely, on the basis that retrospective law is unfair and in some respects unlawful. And they have required the police forces of Great Britain to comply with that ruling.

 

2) To deal with the problem of more recent pedelecs, they have introduced a somewhat convoluted provision using a part of EU law, that which says a pedelec with a throttle becomes an LIe-A moped which needs to be type approved at manufacture.

 

So they have stretched that in three ways to mean that, post manufacture, a fully acting throttle can be added, providing that the machine is individually taken through Single Vehicle Approval. If that is done they are prepared to accept that it remains a bureacracy free pedelec classed as a 250LPM within the L1e-A law as a Britain only class given permanent ministerial approval to be still a bicycle in law. Once again they have required the police forces of Great Britain to comply with that ruling, despite the legal conflict.

 

As is very clear, the police are complying with both the above measures, taking absolutely no notice of fully acting throttles, providing all the other pedelec rules are complied with, as the DfT has ruled.

 

In turn the trade have taken note and apply the law with similar flexibility. So we should be tolerant about their interpretations which, after all, are only provided to satisfy what we ask for and feel we need.

 

Woosh regards needing to pedal to activate the throttle allows it to remain active during the journey since it is a thumb throttle not necessarily continuous at all times. As I said at the outset, that does not comply with the letter of the law, but it obviously does comply with the spirit of the DfT's provisions to resolve the impasse mentioned.

 

So it's in our own interests to cut them some slack, as the DfT have generously done for us.

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Edited September 28, 20232 yr by flecc

One clarification I would like to know.

 

My two eBikes, an eMTB and the eBrompton, have the KT controllers setup so that they respond to throttle but when you stop pedaling the motor cuts out, that happens automagically.

 

However, is it a legal requirement that this happens automatically ?

 

In other words, lets say you have a throttle, and your using it, and also doing the required 'ghost pedalling'. So every time you stop pedalling, you manually release the throttle.

 

Is that legal ?