Why so few hub geared bikes with belts ? Looking at Kalkhoff

[ElectricJoe]

After a few years off a bike, now looking for an ebike to aid my dodgy knees.
As per title, most bikes seem to have derailleurs, which I hate. Clunky, high maintenance, prone to damage, and just out of place on a high tech bike, rattling a chain around.
But it seems few manufacturers or customers agree, since there are so few hub geared especially with a belt.

As per title, Kalkhoff seem to be one of the few vendors, but they have a very confusing (to me) set of bikes with very similar specs seemingly sold by different bike shops, so hard to compare.

any other makes I should look at? Budget looks like it will need to be £3k.
TIA
Joe

 

[sjpt]

If you look on the home page the Safari isn't listed & most every other model is indicated as sold out.

Interesting... When I look at the page http://www.kudoscycles.com/index.php?intro=done I still see it as 'in stock' (went to http://www.kudoscycles.com/ and then clicked on 'Products') And it's in the slideshow on http://kudoscycles.co.uk/ I've refreshed pages and tried different browsers. What home page did you see?

 

[nigelbb]

Interesting... When I look at the page http://www.kudoscycles.com/index.php?intro=done I still see it as 'in stock' (went to http://www.kudoscycles.com/ and then clicked on 'Products') And it's in the slideshow on http://kudoscycles.co.uk/ I've refreshed pages and tried different browsers. What home page did you see?

Apologies I must have missed it among the sea of bikes with a red SOLD OUT banner splashed across them. I guess the only way to resolve this is to contact them

 

[Nealh]

Kudos did have a bit of stock for the Safari as early last year or it may have tale end of 18 they were offering two safari's for £995 one heck of a deal.
The styling for a step thru is a bit dated but those wanting a cheaper step thru option need to look beyond the looks of the bike, those who don't like or get on with derailleurs can have hubs gears that can be changed down at a stand still if one has forgotten to do so.

 

[nigelbb]

Kudos did have a bit of stock for the Safari as early last year or it may have tale end of 18 they were offering two safari's for £995 one heck of a deal.
The styling for a step thru is a bit dated but those wanting a cheaper step thru option need to look beyond the looks of the bike, those who don't like or get on with derailleurs can have hubs gears that can be changed down at a stand still if one has forgotten to do so.

I wish we had seen that 2 for £995 deal. My partner & I were sold on ebikes after we rented a couple in Brittany last year. Those were Dutch-style step through, hub gears & front wheel hub drives with a cadence sensor. We had our flat handlebar hybrid road bikes converted but we both prefer the Dutch-style step through so she now has a Woosh Petite which is a rear wheel drive with derailleur gears.

 

[Nealh]

A lot of bias towards front wheel drive and their pit falls, but tbh they aren't all that bad. Yes occasionally you may suffer wheel scrabble but mainly on loose ground and higher power use. Torque steering affect can be noticeable but again not serious in lower power mode, front tyre wear may be more then a normal pushbike. Both of the main above issues can be dealt with by only using low power mode from the off, and tyre wear isn't bad.

 

[sjpt]

We were tempted by the two for £995 deal a couple of years ago; but ended up getting one 2nd hand Raleigh Motus (step through, hub) for about the same price. I can't quite remember why; I think it was weight, fairly small battery and roller brakes that decided us against the Safari.

 

[Nealh]

The Safari 10ah battery wasn't for mega range, originally the bike was an easy to use hub geared option for the rental holiday sector so the battery was simply for local riding visiting places but even 10a is good for 25 -30 miles. For someone wanting only to ride to the shops, a leisurely group ride or a local family ride out of < 10 -20 miles then it's is a good cheap option.

 

[nigelbb]

The Safari 10ah battery wasn't for mega range, originally the bike was an easy to use hub geared option for the rental holiday sector so the battery was sample for local riding visiting places but even 10a is good for 25 -30 miles. For someone wanting only to ride to the shops, a leisurely group ride or a local family ride out of < 10 -20 miles then it's is a good cheap option.

These are the bikes we rented for the very reasonable price of €12/day (€55/week). This is a stock photo so it's not us in the picture They are well featured with centre stand, basket & built in lock. Very comfortable to ride & tackled the steep hills on the north Brittany coast easily.

 

[nigelbb]

It's a very innovative rental scheme that they have on the Trégor peninsular north of Lannion on the Côte de Granit Rose (Pink Granite Coast). All the tourist offices have bikes for rent & you can also rent a trailer to carry your kids or your dog. They give you a helmet & gilet jaune & reckon the battery is good for 40 et 60 km (25-50 miles). They also have a very low cost rental scheme for schoolchildren & college students to encourage use of bikes for commuting (€100 for 6 months) & other attractive deals for local residents.

Les vélek'tro

www.lannion-tregor.com

 

[vfr400]

A lot of bias towards front wheel drive and their pit falls, but tbh they aren't all that bad. Yes occasionally you may suffer wheel scrabble but mainly on loose ground and higher power use. Torque steering affect can be noticeable but again not serious in lower power mode, front tyre wear may be more then a normal pushbike. Both of the main above issues can be dealt with by only using low power mode from the off, and tyre wear isn't bad.

Front hub motors aren't so bad on those dutch style bikes with big front wheels and pull-back handlebars, but they're diabolical on a road bike or a light-weight hybrid type, where the extra weight on the steering is very noticeable and they struggle for grip from thin tyres.

 

[Nosweat]

The Dutch style bike earlier would really need a crank motor to get full value from it because its front wheel has a dynamo. Lighting is the one catch with a front hub motor rear hub gear configuration - I had to fit a botttle dynamo (shhhhh!) to my Woosh conversion. Bit noisy but it works and I can have a hub gear and front motor configuration.

In theory another option would be a front dynamo, rear hub motor, bottom bracket gear - but very expensive and I'm not sure if a torque or cadence sensor would be compatible with a bottom bracket gearbox.

 

[Ocsid]

I am not convinced the lighting by dynamo issue makes a lot of sense where an e- bike carries, in a relative sense to the power required for lighting, a "gert great" electrical energy storage battery?
I know the Germans, so probably elsewhere on the continent were saddled with a legacy issue carried over from conventional bikes of having dynamos, so electric power did not rely on the health of a few pen cell batteries. However, given with the e-bike's whole purpose needing a huge and viable battery, seems to me time to revisit any concerns the battery for lighting might be dead.

 

[vfr400]

The Dutch style bike earlier would really need a crank motor to get full value from it because its front wheel has a dynamo. Lighting is the one catch with a front hub motor rear hub gear configuration - I had to fit a botttle dynamo (shhhhh!) to my Woosh conversion. Bit noisy but it works and I can have a hub gear and front motor configuration.

In theory another option would be a front dynamo, rear hub motor, bottom bracket gear - but very expensive and I'm not sure if a torque or cadence sensor would be compatible with a bottom bracket gearbox.

It seems to me a very weird thing to do to fit a dynamo to an electric bike. People think that the dynamo makes electricity for nothing. On an electric bike, the dynamo is taking power for the lights from the battery with an efficiency loss, so you might as well save your money and take the electricity directly from a battery and get full efficiency for it.

 

[sjpt]

One reason for a dynamo is that it still works if the battery runs out. Not important in most cases, but could be really helpful on rare occasions. I agree that fitting them is often just due to a sort of metal inertia.

 

[Stubod]

..simple, use the dynamo to re-charge the battery as you are going along..

 

[Nealh]

A generic battery will always have enough voltage to run lights even if LVC is hit.

 

[GSV3MiaC]

I am not convinced the lighting by dynamo issue makes a lot of sense where an e- bike carries, in a relative sense to the power required for lighting, a "gert great" electrical energy storage battery?
I know the Germans, so probably elsewhere on the continent were saddled with a legacy issue carried over from conventional bikes of having dynamos, so electric power did not rely on the health of a few pen cell batteries. However, given with the e-bike's whole purpose needing a huge and viable battery, seems to me time to revisit any concerns the battery for lighting might be dead.

Beware!

Dynamo lights got me squashed on a Moulton back in 196x .. i was stopped, turning right at night, and a car ploughed into me .. no motion, no electric, no light. Big capacitor needed, or batteries!

 

[Trek]

Hi, I have just ordered Volt Axis, although it’s a folder it has a Gates belt drive, Shimano Steps crank drive and Shimano D2 hub gears. Should get it tomorrow if this could be of interest

 

[nigelbb]

Apologies I must have missed it among the sea of bikes with a red SOLD OUT banner splashed across them. I guess the only way to resolve this is to contact them

I had a reply to my email. They still have stock in silver or black but only 43cm frame size which is a bit small for me.

 

[nigelbb]

Link.

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I am now the happy owner of a Woosh Sundowner for £500. It looks brand new without a mark on it with only 98 miles on the clock. It must have been stored in a spare bedroom for the last few years. It doesn't have a belt drive but it's almost exactly what I wanted in a bike. Oddly it's missing the all enclosed chain guard that it would have had originally.

I took it out for an 11 mile ride last night. There was still plenty of battery life left when I got home at least according to the LCD. It's light for an ebike & with the upright riding position & swept handlebars very much more comfortable to ride than my hybrid & I don't get the pins & needles & numbness in my wrists & hands that I get on the hybrid. The motor provides slightly less assistance than the XF07 on my hybrid but that's all to the good as it makes me pedal a little harder than on the hybrid so I get a bit more exercise.

I can get a new 8.8Ah battery off eBay for £180 or Jimmy will re-cell the old one to 14.5Ah for £300 but I'll see what sort of range I get out of the original battery before deciding on a purchase. I would like to get a chain guard though.