Why so few hub geared bikes with belts ? Looking at Kalkhoff

[ElectricJoe]

After a few years off a bike, now looking for an ebike to aid my dodgy knees.
As per title, most bikes seem to have derailleurs, which I hate. Clunky, high maintenance, prone to damage, and just out of place on a high tech bike, rattling a chain around.
But it seems few manufacturers or customers agree, since there are so few hub geared especially with a belt.

As per title, Kalkhoff seem to be one of the few vendors, but they have a very confusing (to me) set of bikes with very similar specs seemingly sold by different bike shops, so hard to compare.

any other makes I should look at? Budget looks like it will need to be £3k.
TIA
Joe

 

[Ocsid]

I sold the Sundowners for £699 and 7 years later, he wants £625 for it.
I am gobsmacked.

You might get a bit extra for a replacement battery though

 

[Nealh]

What it is for sale for and what is offered may not be any where near the same.
£200/250 maybe as the battery will need replacing sooner then later.

 

[Chainring]

You could buy this frame: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/frames/40-st-thorn-nomad-mk3-step-through-frame-gunmetal-imron/ plus a kit from Woosh. This hub built in to a wheel: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-Gear-hub-NEXUS-3-gear-SG-3D55-36-hole-135-mm-black/313044611403 Find some forks and you would have a good bike for about £1500. The belt drive part would mean finding a good engineer to make the required pulleys, and would add to the cost. My Nexus 3-speed has done 15000 miles through five winters, and still seems to work well.

 

[sjpt]

Kudos Safari and Liberty

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

www.kudoscycles.com

Pretty heavy even by 'robust' fully set up ebike standards, and a rather old-fashioned and low capacity battery (might have difficulty if it needs replacing at any time(*)). No belt (of course). But pretty cheap.

(*) Kudos spares don't look so plentiful.

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

www.kudoscycles.com

 

[Chainring]

You could buy this frame: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/frames/40-st-thorn-nomad-mk3-step-through-frame-gunmetal-imron/ plus a kit from Woosh. This hub built in to a wheel: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-Gear-hub-NEXUS-3-gear-SG-3D55-36-hole-135-mm-black/313044611403 Find some forks and you would have a good bike for about £1500. The belt drive part would mean finding a good engineer to make the required pulleys, and would add to the cost. My Nexus 3-speed has done 15000 miles through five winters, and still seems to work well.

I searched on EBay for toothed pulleys, just out of interest, and it came up with ready-made ones, but rather expensive! They were in Germany.

 

[Nealh]

I had forgot about the Safari it is a heck of a lot of ebike for the money. And if it were to go wrong you can simply replace the electrics for under £100.

 

[nigelbb]

You could buy this frame: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/frames/40-st-thorn-nomad-mk3-step-through-frame-gunmetal-imron/ plus a kit from Woosh. This hub built in to a wheel: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-Gear-hub-NEXUS-3-gear-SG-3D55-36-hole-135-mm-black/313044611403 Find some forks and you would have a good bike for about £1500. The belt drive part would mean finding a good engineer to make the required pulleys, and would add to the cost. My Nexus 3-speed has done 15000 miles through five winters, and still seems to work well.

I think that a better way of spending £1500 would be to spend £1049 on a complete Dutch-style bicycle with belt drive & hub gears & then add an electric front wheel (thanks to Woosh for this suggestion)

Bergamont Vitess N8 Belt Amsterdam 2020 - Out of Stock | Tredz Bikes

Bergamont Vitess N8 Belt Amsterdam 2020 - Touring Bike. Out of Stock. All Touring bikes are delivered free to the UK mainland, 365 day returns & Price Match.

www.tredz.co.uk

 

[nigelbb]

I sold the Sundowners for £699 and 7 years later, he wants £625 for it.
I am gobsmacked.

Can you supply a new battery & how much would a new battery cost me?

 

[nigelbb]

What it is for sale for and what is offered may not be any where near the same.
£200/250 maybe as the battery will need replacing sooner then later.

It's interesting to know the original price was £699 but £200/250 is a rather low offer. From the photos the bike looks to be in 'as new' condition with just 97 miles on the clock. As long as Woosh can supply a new battery if required then I think that I'll take a look at the bike & decide about an offer.

 

[Chainring]

I think that a better way of spending £1500 would be to spend £1049 on a complete Dutch-style bicycle with belt drive & hub gears & then add an electric front wheel (thanks to Woosh for this suggestion)

Bergamont Vitess N8 Belt Amsterdam 2020 - Out of Stock | Tredz Bikes

Bergamont Vitess N8 Belt Amsterdam 2020 - Touring Bike. Out of Stock. All Touring bikes are delivered free to the UK mainland, 365 day returns & Price Match.

www.tredz.co.uk

That's a lovely bike, but the thing about buying ready-made is that you end up ditching components to build the bike you really want. If you can start with exactly the frame you want/need, then you kit it out to suit yourself. You can choose type/number of gears, seatpost, saddle, brakes, pedals, size of wheel, make of tyre and so on.

 

[nigelbb]

That's a lovely bike, but the thing about buying ready-made is that you end up ditching components to build the bike you really want. If you can start with exactly the frame you want/need, then you kit it out to suit yourself. You can choose type/number of gears, seatpost, saddle, brakes, pedals, size of wheel, make of tyre and so on.

I was thinking more in terms of work & hassle. I could just take that bike to Woosh & have them fit an electric front hub. I also think it could be very problematic building your own belt drive bike so it’s much easier to take one where all the geometry & tensioning is already correct.

 

[Ocsid]

I was thinking more in terms of work & hassle. I could just take that bike to Woosh & have them fit an electric front hub. I also think it could be very problematic building your own belt drive bike so it’s much easier to take one where all the geometry & tensioning is already correct.

That is very true in that the frame must be designed to fit a belt, as unlike a chain it can't be broken and rejoined back into a loop. Effectively, it requires the breaking of the frame's rear triangle instead. Then there is the high lateral stiffness that has to be there for the belt as its alignment is critical to its trouble free performance, Plus buying retail, at least Gates components, is exceedingly expensive.

 

[vfr400]

Kudos Safari and Liberty

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

www.kudoscycles.com

Pretty heavy even by 'robust' fully set up ebike standards, and a rather old-fashioned and low capacity battery (might have difficulty if it needs replacing at any time(*)). No belt (of course). But pretty cheap.

(*) Kudos spares don't look so plentiful.

.: Kudos Cycles - e-bikes with style :.

www.kudoscycles.com

I didn't realise that they still sell the kudos Safari. It's a good bike. It has a LiFePO4 battery so will last forever. It's all standard Chinese stuff on it, which can easily be replaced or upgraded very cheaply if you ever feel the need. One of our local Asda empoyees has one. I've see it parked outside most times I've visited in the last 5 years. I had to repair one after it got run over by a car, so I got a chance to try it on my yest hill. It climbed the hill with less effort than most similar bikes. The only downside is that the hub gears and LiFePO4 battery make it a bit heavier than similar bikes. At that price, it has to be the best value electric bike at the moment.

 

[sjpt]

I didn't realise that they still sell the kudos Safari.

I think they must have stopped doing anything new with the anti-dumping tax, but still have some stock of an ever-decreasing range.

Maybe it isn't still available and they've just given up keeping the website up to date?

 

[Nealh]

The specs on the Safari are hard to find on another bike and you won't find one for £695.
The bike uses a long seat tube and handle bar adjustment , so will fit a rider 4'-10" to 6' - 2".
Bafang hub motor (front).
Shimano 8 sp Nexus hub gears with chain guard.
Wide tyres 2.125"
Mudguards.
Lights.
Battery rack and panniers.
Bike lock (extending).
Bike stand.
Long life lifepo4 battery.
Tool kit.
Step thru frame.

 

[nigelbb]

That is very true in that the frame must be designed to fit a belt, as unlike a chain it can't be broken and rejoined back into a loop. Effectively, it requires the breaking of the frame's rear triangle instead. Then there is the high lateral stiffness that has to be there for the belt as its alignment is critical to its trouble free performance, Plus buying retail, at least Gates components, is exceedingly expensive.

When it comes to bike components I think "expensive" is relative . A replacement Gates belt costs £22-£72 while you can pay considerably more than that for a saddle or wheel.

Buy V-Belt/Belt Drive at HBS

Buy V-Belt/Belt Drive online? The largest V-Belt/Belt Drive assor

hollandbikeshop.com

 

[ElectricJoe]

Theres certainly a lot to be said for converting a bike to electric, in that You won't have the issues that potentially lurk regards spares and ending up with a bike that's unusable when the manufacturer stops supporting it.
But then if you go for front wheel drive (easiest conversion?) do you geta bike that's less good on hills?

 

[Stubod]

..must admit when I was testing out various bikes before getting mine the front hub system was my least preferred option as it didn't feel "natural" compared to crank drives, (the best for me), or a rear hub motor.
But I understand that if you want hub gears as well you are a bit restricted. I also like the idea of a "kit" system that you can hopefully get replacement bits in the longer term.

 

[nigelbb]

A front hub conversion is the easiest to do & the bike can easily be returned to standard if necessary.

 

[nigelbb]

I think they must have stopped doing anything new with the anti-dumping tax, but still have some stock of an ever-decreasing range.

Maybe it isn't still available and they've just given up keeping the website up to date?

I'm guessing that is just an orphaned web page they haven't removed. If you look on the home page the Safari isn't listed & most every other model is indicated as sold out. I'm pretty sure if such a well specified bike were available at just £695 it would have been selling like hot cakes at present with most bike shops almost out of stock.