Which is better on steep hills with a heavy riding weight, the Big Bear or the Krieger?

[John_S]

I own a Woosh Krieger, which I ride with my 4-year old child in a child seat. Together we weigh 18 or 19 stone. The bike is very powerful and goes up very steep hills with ease. However, it has some drawbacks such as the awkward gear changing mechanism and the wear that is put on the chain from the crank-drive setup. I've thought about switching my Krieger for a Big Bear, which is a powerful front-hub drive and which, I've heard, has incredibly good hill climbing ability.
However, is the Big Bear as efficient as the Krieger on very steep hills with a heavy riding weight? Would it go up a very steep hill (for instance, a 20% gradient or steeper) carrying the weight of myself and my child as easily and with as little rider effort as the crank-driven Krieger would?
Thanks for your responses.

 

[flecc]

I own a Woosh Krieger, which I ride with my 4-year old child in a child seat. Together we weigh 18 or 19 stone. The bike is very powerful and goes up very steep hills with ease. However, it has some drawbacks such as the awkward gear changing mechanism and the wear that is put on the chain from the crank-drive setup. I've thought about switching my Krieger for a Big Bear, which is a powerful front-hub drive and which, I've heard, has incredibly good hill climbing ability.
However, is the Big Bear as efficient as the Krieger on very steep hills with a heavy riding weight? Would it go up a very steep hill (for instance, a 20% gradient or steeper) carrying the weight of myself and my child as easily and with as little rider effort as the crank-driven Krieger would?
Thanks for your responses.

Although the BPM motor in the Big Bear is a much more able hill climber than a run of the mill model Bafang motor, it will still suffer the usual single geared hub motor problem.

Basically that the optimum speed for maximum climb ability is roughly half the maximum assist speed, so about 8mph*. If you are able to keep it at that or above with your contribution it does quite well, but if you nudge below that speed due to a hill's steepness and/or lack of your contribution it will be all over quickly and you'll be walking the bike uphill.

Whereas on the Krieger you can just drop another gear and still be climbing ok.

I doubt the Big Bear will be able to compete with the Krieger on the steepest hills you have, such as over 20%, especially with the high load carried that you indicate.

* This is the point where the torque and power combination reaches the optimum for climbing.
.

 

[RobF]

Lowering the gearing on your Krieger would improve its hill climbing.

I'm not familiar with the bike, but fitting a smaller ring at the front, or a bigger big cog at the back should be fairly straightforward.

 

[trex]

the Big Bear is very good on most hills, but with up to 18st-19st to haul, then it would be about 10% hills where both bikes would be neck and neck, after that, it will start to struggle a bit while the Krieger can keep going a fair bit more.

 

[Benjahmin]

The problem with the Big Bear would be keeping weight over the front wheel if you tend to ride upright, especially if your kid is on the back. On loose surfaces or wet mossy/leafy stuff you'd be starting to get spin on steeper hills.

 

[Andy_H]

Having just ridden over Rivington (Lancashire) from Chorley end, its a long hill of about 2 1/2 miles with about 600ft climb but only about 17% at steepest, the big bear did struggle a bit on the steepest bit with weight of about 135 Kg, (me, bike, locks etc,), at one point I wasn't sure I would make it, Obviously it does depend on fitness, although I'm un-fit I didn't stop peddling, closer to home there is a short hill with 20% at steepest and it made it up that no problem.

I haven't ridden the Krieger, but if it get you up hills ok, I wouldn't think the bear would make much improvement because once the motor starts to struggle dropping gear doesn't help the motor, just the normal bit easier peddling.

 

[Lancslass]

Having just ridden over Rivington (Lancashire) from Chorley end, its a long hill of about 2 1/2 miles with about 600ft climb but only about 17% at steepest, the big bear did struggle a bit on the steepest bit with weight of about 135 Kg, (me, bike, locks etc,), at one point I wasn't sure I would make it, Obviously it does depend on fitness, although I'm un-fit I didn't stop peddling, closer to home there is a short hill with 20% at steepest and it made it up that no problem.

Well done Andy, that is one big hill that you climbed. It's a planned ride of ours, but from the Bolton end instead. I've every reason to believe that Juicy Lucy will manage it!

 

[Andy_H]

Well done Andy, that is one big hill that you climbed. It's a planned ride of ours, but from the Bolton end instead. I've every reason to believe that Juicy Lucy will manage it!

I doubt you would have any problem, I think it was purely the weight which caused the bear a bit more a problem, your a lightweight so should make it easy

 

[Tomtomato]

Lowering the gearing on your Krieger would improve its hill climbing.

The OP does not have an issue with the Krieger or its hill-climbing ability.

 

[John Stuart]

I have a Sirocco CDL which I think is less powerful than the Kreiger, I also currently have a new Big Bear in the garage which belongs to my daughter. I ride both and I think the points covered by others on this thread are pretty accurate. While the CDL has less grunt than the BB it's a nicer, more natural, ride I find. The acceleration on the BB, once the front wheel has some grip, is addictive. On the other hand with the CDL you have the pauses for gear changes. I don't think I would swap on a permanent basis.

 

[John_S]

Thanks for all your replies guys. Your replies have been very informative. I think that I personally might prefer a high-torque hub drive bike rather than a crank drive, despite that it still wouldn't be quite as good on steep hills.

Would you say that the Big Bear is the very best ready-made hub drive bike that's available in terms of hill-climbing ability, or are there others that are better than the Big Bear on steep hills?

 

[flecc]

Would you say that the Big Bear is the very best ready-made hub drive bike that's available in terms of hill-climbing ability, or are there others that are better than the Big Bear on steep hills?

Equal best, but probably no legal ones better. Others that will equal it are the other bikes with the same BPM motor such as certain Kudos models and one Oxygen model, also the powerful eZee motor in their bikes or as a kit.
.

 

[trex]

@John_S
with hindsight, I think the Big Bear is more suitable for your situation. Ask Hatti, she'll help you sort that out.

 

[1boris]

Thanks for all your replies guys. Your replies have been very informative. I think that I personally might prefer a high-torque hub drive bike rather than a crank drive, despite that it still wouldn't be quite as good on steep hills.

Would you say that the Big Bear is the very best ready-made hub drive bike that's available in terms of hill-climbing ability, or are there others that are better than the Big Bear on steep hills?

I world say that the bh emotion bikes with the dapu motor like Neo cross is the best hill climbers

 

[EddiePJ]

I world say that the bh emotion bikes with the dapu motor like Neo cross is the best hill climbers

How many others have you tried, and how do you arrive at that conclusion?

 

[1boris]

I have tried different BPM motors at 36v 20-22amp.i feel the dapu motor have more torque.you have had a neo cross yourself.do you disagree? Also i sawan Australias review where the say the neo cross had more torque than the ezee forza:

 

[trex]

dapu quote 35NM/45NM for their M155 series, the only way you are going to get more torque is to run their 36V motors at 48V. I reckon their M155 motors are about as powerful as the Bafang SWX02. Similar diameter, weight and power rating (250W to 500W). I can climb more or less anything with a Bafang SWX02 fitted with a 20A controller.

 

[EddiePJ]

I have tried different BPM motors at 36v 20-22amp.i feel the dapu motor have more torque.you have had a neo cross yourself.do you disagree? Also i sawan Australias review where the say the neo cross had more torque than the ezee forza:

The Neo Xtrem that I owned was an exceptionally brilliant climber, and takes some beating, especially after I made the bike even lighter, but the KTM e-Race P that I own does exactly that. Either way, the Dapu is a lovely motor. I can also only go by memory, but I'm pretty sure that the Dapu is/was quieter. Shame that I can't check with side by side comparison. The Panosonic motor as fitted, makes an obvious noise when pulling away, but I don't seem to recall the Dapu doing that, but I could be wrong.

I have a dedicated test route for any e-bike that I ride, and one section has a one mile long climb, which by memory, the Xtrem climbed 2 seconds faster* than the KTM. The difference though, is that on the BH the faster time was set when really going for it, and I had nothing in reserve in respect of my own energy. On the KTM, I was just taking things pretty chilled and relaxed, and had both plenty of energy and gears to go. The two could be on par, but I can only go by own personal experience.

Link to brief first test ride of the KTM http://eu.industrial.panasonic.com/products/e-bike-systems/rear-hub-unit-system

Link to Panasonic e-bike drive systems. Oddly or conveniently, there is no mention of Maximum torque.

http://eu.industrial.panasonic.com/products/e-bike-systems/rear-hub-unit-system



* I need to find and check the exact timing and average mph. The faster time of the BH was also not set when carrying out the test ride, it was set on another occasion.

 

[1boris]

dapu quote 35NM/45NM for their M155 series, the only way you are going to get more torque is to run their 36V motors at 48V. I reckon their M155 motors are about as powerful as the Bafang SWX02. Similar diameter, weight and power rating (250W to 500W). I can climb more or less anything with a Bafang SWX02 fitted with a 20A controller.

You cant tell by looking at the diameter.The dapu motor is buildt like a mac motor and have very strong low end torque.And its not possible for me to overheat my neo cross.If you feed it more current at 36v it would have more torque.

 

[1boris]

The Neo Xtrem that I owned was an exceptionally brilliant climber, and takes some beating, especially after I made the bike even lighter, but the KTM e-Race P that I own does exactly that. Either way, the Dapu is a lovely motor. I can also only go by memory, but I'm pretty sure that the Dapu is/was quieter. Shame that I can't check with side by side comparison. The Panosonic motor as fitted, makes an obvious noise when pulling away, but I don't seem to recall the Dapu doing that, but I could be wrong.

I have a dedicated test route for any e-bike that I ride, and one section has a one mile long climb, which by memory, the Xtrem climbed 2 seconds faster* than the KTM. The difference though, is that on the BH the faster time was set when really going for it, and I had nothing in reserve in respect of my own energy. On the KTM, I was just taking things pretty chilled and relaxed, and had both plenty of energy and gears to go. The two could be on par, but I can only go by own personal experience.

Link to brief first test ride of the KTM http://eu.industrial.panasonic.com/products/e-bike-systems/rear-hub-unit-system

Link to Panasonic e-bike drive systems. Oddly or conveniently, there is no mention of Maximum torque.

http://eu.industrial.panasonic.com/products/e-bike-systems/rear-hub-unit-system



* I need to find and check the exact timing and average mph. The faster time of the BH was also not set when carrying out the test ride, it was set on another occasion.

I have not tried the panasonic hub,but I know it is very good.So it might be on par or better than the dapu motor.But I was sure I read somewhere that the low end torque was not so good on the panasonic hub? Also It could get hot.My neo cross is not possible for me to overheat.