What's the best 250 watt...

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Adding to my earlier comment. The booster battery approach is best for adding speed

If you want climbing ability just get a legal 250w mid drive Kit such as bbs, gsm etc.

I have a mid drive Kit on my mtb and it climbs anything through use of gears. It is 250w and unadulterated

I,d totally agree with that but illegal is illegal.There are no shades or degrees if breaking the law. We probably all think this legislation is wrong but you might as well ride around on ab untaxed, uninsured, un registered motorbike, which in reality is exactly what you are doing .Yes perhaps more stealthy but what will authorities do when they realise its so easy to adulterate/ modify ebikes to lift power or max powered speed..they,ll just ban them all.
Pedelecs are fantastic as they are..stop making them illegal. Will ruin it for us all.
If you want to go faster buy a Sev or Brinco,register it as a moped..( dependant on spec) and do it properly. Hardly costs anything to reg,still free tax. Government grant on purchase, next to nowt to insure.

 

[BALDYMONSTER]

Adding to my earlier comment. The booster battery approach is best for adding speed

If you want climbing ability just get a legal 250w mid drive Kit such as bbs, gsm etc.

I have a mid drive Kit on my mtb and it climbs anything through use of gears. It is 250w and unadulterated

What kit have you got on what bike?

 

[Alan Quay]

I,d totally agree with that but illegal is illegal.There are no shades or degrees if breaking the law. We probably all think this legislation is wrong but you might as well ride around on ab untaxed, uninsured, un registered motorbike, which in reality is exactly what you are doing .Yes perhaps more stealthy but what will authorities do when they realise its so easy to adulterate/ modify ebikes to lift power or max powered speed..they,ll just ban them all.
Pedelecs are fantastic as they are..stop making them illegal. Will ruin it for us all.
If you want to go faster buy a Sev or Brinco,register it as a moped..( dependant on spec) and do it properly. Hardly costs anything to reg,still free tax. Government grant on purchase, next to nowt to insure.

Hmm, your post suggests that you have little concept of what is and is not legal, and what could be made legal.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Hmm, your post suggests that you have little concept of what is and is not legal, and what could be made legal.

Perhaps you could enlighten me then ???
As far as I,m aware a Pedelec ( to be legally a pushbike) must
a) Have max motor power of 250 w
b) Max powered speed of 25kmh( 15.5 mph)
C) as of Jan 2016 no hand control of motor( only means of applying motor power through pedal assist)

Seems to me not only do many on here not know the law some blatantly post saying they break it. ( posters carrying batteries to increase speed?? Some ( on other threads) claiming powered speeds over 30 mph. ??
If you must fit modified dongles, mess with pulse generators,carry booster batteries etc etc I wouldn't post on here about it. Advertising that many break the law is sure fire way of getting law changed ..
Chances are if UK does exit the EU rules will change anyway. We only have 250 w to be inline with eu. Flouting the rules and saying so on here gives justification to scrap them completely..

 

[Alan Quay]

Perhaps you could enlighten me then ???
As far as I,m aware a Pedelec ( to be legally a pushbike) must
a) Have max motor power of 250 w
b) Max powered speed of 25kmh( 15.5 mph)
C) as of Jan 2016 no hand control of motor( only means of applying motor power through pedal assist)

Seems to me not only do many on here not know the law some blatantly post saying they break it. ( posters carrying batteries to increase speed?? Some ( on other threads) claiming powered speeds over 30 mph. ??
If you must fit modified dongles, mess with pulse generators,carry booster batteries etc etc I wouldn't post on here about it. Advertising that many break the law is sure fire way of getting law changed ..
Chances are if UK does exit the EU rules will change anyway. We only have 250 w to be inline with eu. Flouting the rules and saying so on here gives justification to scrap them completely..

Point a) above is incorrect. Its a maximum _rated_ power of 250W for the motor. A legal pedelec will often pull 600W or so, which would be the maximum power.

There's no law against carrying a booster battery. KirstinS has posted previously that he carries the booster battery to his off road destination (to which the public have no access) and uses is there. He then disconnects for the return journey.

It is not practically possible to register a pedelec as a moped as you suggest.

 

[Nealh]

Point C is also wrong bikes fitted pre 01/2016 have grandfather rights so can keep them and now I believe there is an extension until 2018 for pre 2016 bikes to be sold off and be legal.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Fitting a booster battery to give mote speed can only be of benefit if powered speed is raised accordingly.
There are virtually no off road areas in Uk..you,d have to go private land with owners permission. Folk think peak district / national parks are off road. They are not. Legally only bicycles ( and at moment pedelecs) are allowed there.
I often go to true offroad private sites with trials bike ( and have to pay ) and have never seen any pedelecs.
No you can not reg a modified pedelec as a moped.( it needs type approval) but never claimed you could. The Sev and Brinco are sold as registered as mopeds ( if 30 mph limit) or motorbikes if above.( The sev even says so I blurb)
The 600w max on pedelecs is at best debatable. ( they must only be capable of 250 w continuos)
But carry on deluding yourselves. We,ll be banned from national parks ( mtb,s are already calling for it) Then pedelecs will go as well.
If you are,nt breaking law you are not improving bikes performance.
The offroad argument is naive at best considering where uk is with regards to motorbikes ! Which you have..

 

[craiggor]

Point a) above is incorrect. Its a maximum _rated_ power of 250W for the motor. A legal pedelec will often pull 600W or so, which would be the maximum power.

There's no law against carrying a booster battery. KirstinS has posted previously that he carries the booster battery to his off road destination (to which the public have no access) and uses is there. He then disconnects for the return journey.

It is not practically possible to register a pedelec as a moped as you suggest.

Think someone needs to tell the government its maximum rated power not max power.Because when the man on the street googles Ebike law they are directed to gov.UK and it says max power 250w.It's not practical to M.S.V.A a low powered moped but that is what they want people to do.

Point a) above is incorrect. Its a maximum _rated_ power of 250W for the motor. A legal pedelec will often pull 600W or so, which would be the maximum power.

There's no law against carrying a booster battery. KirstinS has posted previously that he carries the booster battery to his off road destination (to which the public have no access) and uses is there. He then disconnects for the return journey.

It is not practically possible to register a pedelec as a moped as you suggest.

 

[Alan Quay]

Think someone needs to tell the government its maximum rated power not max power.Because when the man on the street googles Ebike law they are directed to gov.UK and it says max power 250w.It's not practical to M.S.V.A a low powered moped but that is what they want people to do.

Yes, I've seen that website it's appalling!

 

[Alan Quay]

The 600w max on pedelecs is at best debatable. ( they must only be capable of 250 w continuos)

Have a look at the controller on your legal bike. It'll have a maximum output of about 14-15 amps. 42vx15a=630W.

You can also measure it with a Watt Meter, which will back it up.

Its not 'must only be capable of 250 w continuos'. The motor must be RATED no more that 250W'

 

[KirstinS]

What kit have you got on what bike?

A 250 w BPM 36v hub in a hybrid bike (on one pompetamine) This one is legal with 36v battery but a booster battery can increase speed a fair bit (then ileagal on road)

My 250w mid drive Kit is the GSM. It is on a charge cooker 29er with a sram 2 x10 gearing.

 

[KirstinS]

Point a) above is incorrect. Its a maximum _rated_ power of 250W for the motor. A legal pedelec will often pull 600W or so, which would be the maximum power.

There's no law against carrying a booster battery. KirstinS has posted previously that he carries the booster battery to his off road destination (to which the public have no access) and uses is there. He then disconnects for the return journey.

It is not practically possible to register a pedelec as a moped as you suggest.

This is correct. It would only be illegal on the road (or other public place)

Without the booster it's just a normal , legal 250w pedelec and there is no law against carrying booster batteries that I'm aware of

 

[BALDYMONSTER]

Well it looks like I opened a real can of worms here!

I think sticking to the legal route is sensible for obvious reasons.

Although as usual the UK seems to do the usual, restrict everything for everyone's own safety blah blah.

I'm quite shocked that even having a "throttle" is illegal though, spare me.

I reckon a mid drive Bafang 250 watt kit is the best option, loads on fleabay but they never seem to include the charger and battery.

Anyone on here got this kit?

 

[trex]

the BBS01 must be the most popular kit here. Dozens of members have or have had it. I used one myself, one of the first ones, 3 years ago.
This one is a recent lightweight conversion with BBS01 in the spirit of the Gtech (no gear, no grease, no adjustment, no wire) with a 2-speed SRAM automatix:

 

[BALDYMONSTER]

^ That's the one I'm watching on EBay, it's not very clear wether this comes with the battery and charger or if these have to be purchased separately....

 

[Deleted member 4366]

For any type of serious offroading there is no point going above 250w..yes the extra power might be handy, but the limitation is definitely the battery. A 250w mid drive will climb anything more powerful bikes could and will still get good range and be legal into bargain. Its a silly argument to make because folk are getting away with loads more power its ok. It is not and will only lead to restrictions on everything.
My 250w yam is incredible at climbing. You really dont need anymore on a bicycle !!! If anyone does perhaps they should get a motorbike and stop risking all of us being stopped from going almost where we like.
( over course of today,s ride I,ve had height gain of approaching 1000m spread over 18 miles. My battery still has 28% in it !!! More power would have got me half way around lots quicker..!)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but just in case you don't know, 250w motors aren't actually 250w. The legal requirement is that your motor has to be nominally rated at 250w for continuous use. There's no limit on how much power you push through it. Some "250w" motors provide a lot more than others. The actual power depends more on the controller rather than the motor. Some 250w Ebikes have 24v 12 A controllers, which is around 300W, while as others have 36v 20A controllers, which is around 800w with the same motor. There's nothing wrong with high power. You can always turn it down with your panel/throttle when you don't need it, but if you don't have it, you can't turn it up.

Kirsten, just in case you don't know, there's nothing illegal about adding a booster battery as long as you don't go over 13S; however, the 25km/h rule still applies.

 

[soundwave]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but just in case you don't know, 250w motors aren't actually 250w. The legal requirement is that your motor has to be nominally rated at 250w for continuous use. There's no limit on how much power you push through it. Some "250w" motors provide a lot more than others. The actual power depends more on the controller rather than the motor. Some 250w Ebikes have 24v 12 A controllers, which is around 300W, while as others have 36v 20A controllers, which is around 800w with the same motor. There's nothing wrong with high power. You can always turn it down with your panel/throttle when you don't need it, but if you don't have it, you can't turn it up.

see the power of a washing machine motor when you up the volts and amps.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Just because controller is rated to 17 or 20 amps does not mean it is ever supplying that type of power.
Fair comment 250w crank drives ( Bosch and yam perhaps do consume over 250w for brief periods but I simply do not believe figures of 600w.
My yam controller is rated to 20a but no way in earth is it ever supplying 720w..Anybody who thinks differently try this...
At my place in France I,m on base of a 1245 m hill ( 4000 ft ish) There is a firetrack leading to top. Its a long long slog to top. I weigh 105 kg.
My yam hardseven will just get to top, working to its limit all the way. ( me too) It takes me 1 hr 55 mins. I had 4% showing in battery at top. ( it was fading) I have a 400wh battery.. Consumption around 201 watts per hour...I don't think I could make bike work any harder. If I were drawing anything like at rates suggested I wouldn't get half way.
Its a 250w rated motor. All these rumours of 600 and 720 are sales techniques to make folk think they are more powerful.
250 w for climbing is fine. Its none sense bike can call on 720 when needed. It cant.

My peak figure on steepest section doing similar calcs is 268 w.!!! ( over 30 minutes up a 1 in 4 incline) If I controller could was supplying 20a I,d flatten battery in 35 minutes on this section..

 

[trex]

the maximum power peaks at a combination of around 60% * max RPM and pushing very hard on your pedals, supplying may be 180W and the motor 720W.
On the way to the top, you can only get to the peak power in short moments. That explains why your average speed is lower than the maximum possible and you have not drained the battery completely before reaching the top.

 

[danielrlee]

Just because controller is rated to 17 or 20 amps does not mean it is ever supplying that type of power.

That is EXACTLY what it means. As trex says, it'll only be supplying full power when accelerating from a stop, or riding up a steep hill.