What Electric Bike?

[Andyj]

Am in the position to purchase a pedlec so am looking for a little advice.

I can purchase a bike up to £1500, how-ever the vast array of models is a little daunting.

I have a round trip to commute of abote 10 miles and the terrain is quite hilly; I am fairly fit and used to cycle to my train station regularly. Having a few problems with the knees now so could do with a little assistance.

Models that catch my eye after reading reviews are:_
Gazelle Easy Rider
Kalkhoff Agutta
Whisper 905SE
Ezee Torq.

Any ideas as all the above seem to meet my needs.

Cheers

Andy

 

[Ian]

I think the current favorite is the Kalkhoff Andy, it uses the same power unit as the Gazelle and is of a similar quality but quite a bit cheaper. The Wisper is an unknown quantity and your hills probably make the Torq less suitable.

 

[flecc]

Adding to Ian's advice, the Kalkhoff version of the motor has a high power mode for hill climbing, which the Gazelle doesn't have, so that would be better for your hilly territory.

It also has the advantage of a larger battery, so it will do your round trip with ease and have plenty to spare.
.

 

[BossBob]

With my limited experience, about 2 months on one of These , If I had the dosh to spend and were changing up I'd have the Wisper 905SE

The Wrangler is entry level, was £600 now £325 but still does exactly what it says on the label.
I do a 13 mile, hilly, round trip daily and it has made a huge difference, I put in a fraction of the effort and the trip takes the same time.

I'd have the 905SE for a few reasons.
The range, 460 watts of battery pack (as opposed to the 192W I have now) giving 35 miles assisted.
The "off road" derestricter, giving a top speed of 20 if I wanted it
Throttle only, except on the hills, would still give you an excellent average for minimal input.
Value .... A pretty high spec for under a grand ( at the mo)

The Panasonic powered ones, as I understand it, no pedalling = no assistance and I don't fancy that.

Rab

 

[flecc]

The Panasonic powered ones, as I understand it, no pedalling = no assistance and I don't fancy that.

Rab

Yes, they are pedelecs, but they'll all be like that shortly anyway, since our Euro law-dodging days seem to be numbered now.

Pedelec isn't a problem though, it's a bicycle after all, and they never have power without pedalling.
.

 

[MaryinScotland]

Pedelec isn't a problem though, it's a bicycle after all, and they never have power without pedalling.
.

But since I'm toting the extra weight of motor/battery, I think it's nice to be able to employ it on occasions when I'm not pedalling:
-- Pushing my bike with a trailer-load up a ramp to a pedestrian footbridge (or up a hill where rider-weight defeated the motor).
-- "Scootering" along with walking-pace traffic, dabbing one foot on the ground.
-- Cycling through a big puddle with my feet lifted high out of the splash zone.

My UM will deal with all the above. However, the power on throttle-only is limited. The Heinzmann I used to have, with full-power control via throttle, had the added advantage that I could feed the motor just the amount of power I wanted for the conditions. I've never liked the idea of the bike deciding how much help to give.

Long live e-bikes!

Mary

 

[flecc]

I certainly would like the choice to continue Mary, for exactly the same reasons.

However, throttles are ok in Europe when with pedelec, and I understand that some Euro legal bikes do have a walking pace throttle only facility anyway. That would answer most needs, but I doubt if throttle only at any speed will be with us for very much longer, given the current signs.
.

 

[MaryinScotland]

Flecc, maybe you could answer something that puzzles me, looking at Heinzmann complete bikes and add-on kits. They offer pedelec or e-bike, but the standard pedelec is a 250W motor, and the standard e-bike is a 500W motor. Why? Do they just assume that someone wanting an e-bike will never pedal, and therefore needs the extra power?

The Heinzmann kit I bought a few years ago (now sold) was e-bike, 200W motor, 24V. I don't think you can get than configuration now, but that was road-legal in Britain. (And still is, I think, so long as the old EAPC regulations haven't been repealed.)

What I liked about the Heinzmann throttle system was that I could pedal just as hard as I felt like, then top-up with enough motor power for hills or headwinds. But if I wanted to re-create that now, it wouldn't be road-legal even with a 250W motor. (My understanding is that the limits are still 200W e-bike or 250W pedelec.)

I guess the closest legal equivant I'm likely to find in the future is a pedelec with adjustable settings for how much help it gives, with as you say an option of walking-pace throttle-only. Alternatively, look for bikes with "off-road"(!) settings to let me use throttle-only.

I've no objection to my electric bike being speed-restricted. But subject to that 15mph limit, I want to be able to use the motor in the ways that I find most convenient. And if I lived in a seriously hilly area, I'd want enough power to deal with it. If the government wants fewer cars on the roads, they'd do better not to encumber electric bikes with too many restriction.

Mary

 

[flecc]

That is odd about Heinzmann choices now Mary, I hadn't realised that was the case. I think your guess at the reason is probably right, though there's room for confusion since the 200 watt motor peaks at about 500 watts net power, so it could just be a different way of expressing the same thing.

A similar thing happens in audio watts, where the same thing can be expressed as 40 watts (RMS), 80 watts (Music Power), 160 watts (Peak Music Power), or 320 watts (Peak Instantaneous Music Power). Suppliers of computer and car audio systems often double up again for luck!

There is increasingly a move to conform to European law, and I think the 200 watts that makes throttle only legal at present under UK law is just being ignored and expressed as 250 watts regardless. In most cases it's the same motor anyway!

I live in a seriously hilly area and use two wheelhub motor throttle controlled bikes without pedelec, but there's no problem here with the Panasonic type of pedelec where the drive through the gears makes any hill climbable. I rode for four years that way on a Lafree Twist, including towing my very large trailer, though it was slightly lacking in power. The high power mode on the newest units has answered that now, so steep hill climbing is not just possible but faster too. That's removed most of the objections, nearly all if walk along power is available as on some Biketech models I think.

I think the European attitude to throttle only riding is that it means it's a motor vehicle and no longer a bicycle, logical enough.

As you say though, if the politicians really want everyone to switch to cycling, they should ease all the restrictions somewhat.
.

 

[jac]

hi the heinzmann that i tried recently had throttle power up to about 4 mph on its own and then pedelec upto not sure what speed but assume 15 mph

 

[flecc]

Thanks for that info Jac, seems they've adopted it too.
.

 

[fishingpaul]

my guess would be that any new law on pedelecs, would only affect the sale of new bikes, and older bikes with a throttle (brought before new law is passed) will probably be ok,and may well become very collectable.

 

[flecc]

my guess would be that any new law on pedelecs, would only affect the sale of new bikes, and older bikes with a throttle (brought before new law is passed) will probably be ok,and may well become very collectable.

Yes, that's quite certain, and there have been some assurances given about that in previous DoT discussions.

And of course, there will be throttle modifications done to new bikes anyway.
.

 

[prState]

As you say though, if the politicians really want everyone to switch to cycling, they should ease all the restrictions somewhat.
.

Off topic, but here, the auto companies have lobbyests to promote their own interests -- but that (in my mind) wouldn't necessarily preclude them from trying to get passed negative laws to discourage competing interests if they became threatened. Currently, there's no real threat from electric bicycles here, but since they are more popular there, it might make me wonder if I couldn't see any good reason for a restriction.

 

[emotivepete]

The difference in Heinzmann power ratings

Flecc, maybe you could answer something that puzzles me, looking at Heinzmann complete bikes and add-on kits. They offer pedelec or e-bike, but the standard pedelec is a 250W motor, and the standard e-bike is a 500W motor. Why? Do they just assume that someone wanting an e-bike will never pedal, and therefore needs the extra power?
Mary

Mary, the standard 250W on a Heinzmann motor relates to maximum continuous rated power under so-called S1 operation. The 500W motor is rated for S2 operation which is not continuous. If you ran the 500W version at maximum power continually the motor would cut-out due to an internal thermal switch. In contrast the 250W motor will run at this power level continually (up to a point) although as Flecc pointed out in a subsequent post it will peak at far higher than 250W. All this rating stuff and S1 or S2 will be stamped on the motor label.

The 500W version was in part produced for the German moped (mofa) regs which allow it to run up to 38kph.

The 200W version is again rated for S1 or continuous use but will produce much higher output for short periods. Our current interpretation of the regs is 200W, 15mph for both e-bike and pedelec (1983 SI regs), although 250W is available for anyone wanting to appy the EU interpretation. With both e-bike and pedelec, the amount of motor-assist is controlled with the hand-throttle, the difference being that the crank needs to rotate for this to be enabled on the pedelec.

Hope this helps