June 24, 20232 yr My previous post was deleted despite editing out offending info, so I'll post my request again. Need bike, need to go up hill. Help, etc. I'm 65kg, 5'3" Hills £2k budget Have existing 26" mountain bike I can convert but quite an old bike with rim gears I'd appreciate some genuine advice. Thank you.
June 24, 20232 yr How much of your own effort are you prepared to put in to going up the hills? In simple terms 'Hill ascending power required' is made up of 'your input' plus 'motor input' If you're putting in zilch power then it's all down to the motor. On the other hand if you can contribute some power then obviously the motor power needed is less. Simples really
June 24, 20232 yr I think you should continue to save those pennies till you get to £3k at least. Its like everything, you very much get what you pay for and whilst £2k might see like a lot for a bike, the 'E' part of it leaves you with a bike that probably retails at 400 quid and it pretty much the bottom of the range. By going a bit higher, you enter the realm of decent spec and more capable riding. These bikes are available to bike in regular bike shops, so if any problems, they are easier, far far easier to resolve. If you can ,try to stick with something with a Bosch motor. In simple terms 'Hill ascending power required' is made up of 'your input' plus 'motor input' Yes, its usually written as a percentage. So for example on for example a Gen 4 performance CX bosch motor, its outputs might be - Eco (lowest assist) 60%. So for the effort you put in, it multiplies it by 60%. Tour+ is the next setting,, and that gives you 160%. EMTB(effectively an automatic gearbox that acts dependent on how much force is applied by the legs) at between 160%-360% Maximum is 360% On something like 'tour+' that, along with gears is going to make hill climbing much easier, on maximum(360%) you're pretty much going to go up anything in pretty much any gear. Edited June 24, 20232 yr by AndyBike
June 24, 20232 yr I think you should continue to save those pennies till you get to £3k at least. 2K for an ebike is a very healthy budget.
June 24, 20232 yr that bike on the right was diy built for well under 1k as a few years old now used every day to commute to work in all weathers its not stopped working once. its a bbs hd so not road legal but nor is my bike and that thing can kick my ass speed wise and both bikes are 24kg. fast bike cheap parts and batts easy to fit and fix or get a haibike money pit the only original parts are frame forks and brakes motor covers.
June 25, 20232 yr 2K for an ebike is a very healthy budget. For the 'Chinese special' market I suppose it is.
June 25, 20232 yr For the 'Chinese special' market I suppose it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_PLnInsh7E:246 dont need a dongle for that
June 25, 20232 yr Need bike, need to go up hill Which hills? Have existing 26" mountain bike I can convert but quite an old bike with rim gears Which one? Provide full details, upload a multitude of clear photos, and our resident experts may advise? My BBS01B is programmed to provide the same current to the motor by way of pedal assistance, as it would with throttle (removed) - it's essentially a legal throttle-less moped, activated by leg waggling. All hills are doddles for my bike... if less than 45 degrees, when my bike tips backwards, because it's not well balanced, but the motor's still game. Edited June 25, 20232 yr by guerney
June 25, 20232 yr For the 'Chinese special' market I suppose it is. he's willing to convert a bike. He can start with a £500 bike, add £600 for a decent road legal kit, he'll get a bike that can winch him up more or less any big hill while pedaling as much or as little as he likes. If he's happy with a second hand donor bike, he can get a very decent full-suspension bike with £500 budget or thereabout on Gumtree/Ebay etc.
June 25, 20232 yr Which hills? Which one? Provide full details, upload a multitude of clear photos, and our resident experts may advise? I recall we were told "Winsley", that killer drag up from Limpley Stoke towards Bradford on Avon, B3108. Quite a test.
June 25, 20232 yr I recall we were told "Winsley", that killer drag up from Limpley Stoke towards Bradford on Avon, B3108. Quite a test. No problem for my BBS01B converted 20" wheeled Dahon Helios P8 folding bike 52T>34 - I now weigh only 63.5kg after much weight loss, and not through cycling, because the last thing I want from my bike is exercise! https://www.strava.com/segments/4611089 Edited June 25, 20232 yr by guerney
June 25, 20232 yr he's willing to convert a bike. He can start with a £500 bike, add £600 for a decent kit, he'll get a bike that can winch him up more or less any big hill. You really should find room for some pre-converted Bafang mid-drive bikes Woosh - oodles of older riders out there would welcome them, I think. Set "keep current" to 100%, increase the controller amps, replace battery BMSs with higher rated ones, large capacity batteries etc. to get even one legged unfit asthmatic fatties up any hill. Call them Woosh Hill Slayers™. Conan The Barbarian logo. Edited June 25, 20232 yr by guerney
June 25, 20232 yr My previous post was deleted despite editing out offending info, so I'll post my request again. Need bike, need to go up hill. Help, etc. I'm 65kg, 5'3" Hills £2k budget Have existing 26" mountain bike I can convert but quite an old bike with rim gears I'd appreciate some genuine advice. Thank you. Woosh Santana 3, recommended for 5'4" upwards, but with this proviso from Woosh: "If you are between 5ft2 and 5ft4, let us know, we can fit a non-suspension seat post and a flatter saddle." It has one of the more powerful motors, the SWX02, good for riders up to 18 stones / 114 kilos. The Santana3 has legal throttle control and pedal assist . A choice of long range batteries for up to 60 miles on a charge, and prices well within your budget from a company highly respected in here for their good service. Link to Santana 3 page . Edited June 25, 20232 yr by flecc
June 25, 20232 yr Author I recall we were told "Winsley", that killer drag up from Limpley Stoke towards Bradford on Avon, B3108. Quite a test. I don't even know where Winsley is, you're definitely thinking of someone else. I have no idea what the incline is, I just have a series of long distance inclines all the way home (3ish miles) which I can't cope with manually. I'm not expecting to ride up a wall, I just need to be able to keep going up a slight incline for about 20 minutes. he's willing to convert a bike. She My mountain bike is a very retro 1990s Raleigh, no suspension, rim brakes, probably not very suitable for converting but hey, I love this bike so I'm willing to give it a try. Woosh Santana 3, Looks cool, never really ridden a Holland style before, would it take some getting used to? I'm wondering too if being more upright would affect how efficiently I could pedal, especially on hills?
June 25, 20232 yr Looks cool, never really ridden a Holland style before, would it take some getting used to? I'm wondering too if being more upright would affect how efficiently I could pedal, especially on hills? The only thing to get used to is the greater comfort with that kind of bike and handlebars. It's how we all used to ride in Britain 70 and more years ago and from Africa through to India and China how almost all the rest of the world still rides today. A few years back I had a Giant Lafree electric bike very similar in style to the Santana. One day I invited a friend and neighour, who was a typical keen roadie, drop handlebars, lycra etc., to try it out, since he'd never ridden an electric assist bike before. When he came back from a short ride with me expecting a comment on the electric assist, this is what he said: "What wonderful handlebars!" It was probably the most comfortable he'd ever been on a bike, and he'd obviously been happy with riding it. But of course tastes are personal and only you will know by trying out a similar style bike. Woosh don't have a crossbar style bike suitable for your height and others I know that might suit are way beyond your budget. .
June 25, 20232 yr My previous post was deleted despite editing out offending info, so I'll post my request again. Was it you considering the Estarli e20? IIRC they claim 50Nm* torque achievable, which is pretty beefy for a compact 20kg foldable, and although the battery is a bit on the smaller side it's more than fine for what you need. Estarli are based/assembled in Bucks I think and have a select (small!) number of dealers so a test ride may be possible (and they do all the cycle to work schemes too if that's open to you). It seems a popular choice that IMHO would easily do what you need. The e28 IIRC you also mentioned is I think too big for your height. EDIT: Just checked: It's 40nm for the standard e20.7, and 50nm for the latest 20.8 "Play". Edited June 25, 20232 yr by cyclebuddy
June 25, 20232 yr Looks cool, never really ridden a Holland style before, would it take some getting used to? Not in my experience. Way back in the late 70s I had my nice road bike stolen and I needed a bike for getting around whilst a custom Reynolds 531 DB frame was built. So I went to a second hand shop and bought a 'sit up and beg' bike as the were referred to at the time. Solid metal bars to actuate the brakes etc. Heavy for sure but the upright riding position was very easy to adapt to and very comfortable. Memories.
June 25, 20232 yr You don't say what you are wanting to use the bike for. Commuting or just for pleasure? From the look of the tyres on your Raleigh MTB I'm guessing you don't go off-road much? If you are attached to your Raleigh it's possible to convert it (it looks in nice condition BTW). There are a few things to consider though. I assume you will be riding down the steep hills as well as up! The cantilever brakes will not be good enough to cope with the extra performance without constant attention and will get through pads quickly. They will not be as good as disc or v-brakes, particularly in the wet. Here is my 1992 Giant MTB which I converted:- The first thing to say is that it is a Yosepower 350w. rear hub kit so it doesn't fit your "completely legal" remit, but I wanted a full throttle and the Yose 250w is only "walk assist". I have their 250w. kit on my hybrid and the performance is similar - if anything the 250w. gets up hills a bit better. I changed the cantilever brakes for good second hand Tektro v-brakes from ebay and fitted new pads. To fit the downtube battery I had to get an adaptor as the drinks bottle mounts were too low on the frame. This is a common problem and the adaptors are available from Yose or on ebay. Yose cables are ridiculously long but I was able to run them up the legs of a rear rack using spiral wrap (the "coil" on the top of the rack is a bike lock BTW!) All in the conversion cost me about £450.00. You are probably thinking "OK, but does it get up hills?". Well, yes it does but as with any pedal-assist the clue is in the title - you have to pedal! Yose claim 58Nm for their 250w. kit, but if you think you will need more I would suggest that you talk to Woosh about a 48v. kit. It will cost more but will be a more suitable solution and you will get good advice and service. The Yose 250w. rear hub kit for a freewheel (which your Raleigh has) is out of stock anyway. I'd be tempted to buy a Santana from Woosh and just keep the Raleigh as it is. The problem with that is I have a much cherished vintage touring bike, but since going electric I haven't bothered to ride it at all! Edited June 25, 20232 yr by Cadence
June 25, 20232 yr You really should find room for some pre-converted Bafang mid-drive bikes Woosh - oodles of older riders out there would welcome them, I think. Set "keep current" to 100%, increase the controller amps, replace battery BMSs with higher rated ones, large capacity batteries etc. to get even one legged unfit asthmatic fatties up any hill. Call them Woosh Hill Slayers™. Conan The Barbarian logo. Woosh already has (at least had?) a Dutch-style hill slayer called the Rambla... with it's (350w... sorry, officially 250w) Bafang M400 TS mid-drive. Upping Current and changing Keep to 100% really slays the battery though (at least it does on my pre-M nomenclature MaxDrive version).
June 25, 20232 yr Was it you considering the Estarli e20? IIRC they claim 50Nm* torque achievable, which is pretty beefy for a compact 20kg foldable, and although the battery is a bit on the smaller side it's more than fine for what you need. Estarli are based/assembled in Bucks I think and have a select (small!) number of dealers so a test ride may be possible (and they do all the cycle to work schemes too if that's open to you). It seems a popular choice that IMHO would easily do what you need. The e28 IIRC you also mentioned is I think too big for your height. EDIT: Just checked: It's 40nm for the standard e20.7, and 50nm for the latest 20.8 "Play". Torque is meaningless. It's force that gets you up the hill and power that determines how fast you go up. Any motor in a 20" wheel will give 30% more climing force as it would in a 26" wheel.
June 25, 20232 yr It's just a bit difficult to get your head around the numbers. For hub motors, the torque is measured at the wheel so the tyre diameter is important, the resulting climbing force at the point of contact with the road is inversely proportional to the radius of the tyre. Smaller wheels correspond to greater climbing force. Big wheels need big torque to turn, for the same wheel, More NM is better. I can show you how to calculate the minimum torque needed to climb comfortably a steep hill if you like. You need the minimum speed (like 8mph), the total weight of you and the bike and the gradient of the hill. Subtract from that your own pedalling contribution, you'll arrive to what the motor must supply. For crank drives, the torque is measured at the chainring and the resulting climbing force at the wheel is inversely proportional not only to the radius of the tyre but the front to rear transmission ratio too. It follows that crank drives can excel at hill climbing by good use of gears, having a small front to rear transmission ratio. Edited June 25, 20232 yr by Woosh
June 25, 20232 yr I don't even know where Winsley is, you're definitely thinking of someone else. Apologies, clearly, I must be thinking of a different posting.
June 25, 20232 yr Torque is meaningless... In this context the figure is quoted simply to convey the fact that the e20.8 model has more grunt than the near identical standard e20.7 model, in case that matters to the OP. KISS.
June 25, 20232 yr Woosh already has (at least had?) a Dutch-style hill slayer called the Rambla... with it's (350w... sorry, officially 250w) Bafang M400 TS mid-drive. Upping Current and changing Keep to 100% really slays the battery though (at least it does on my pre-M nomenclature MaxDrive version). According to [mention=9614]Nealh[/mention], my 19.2Ah battery with it's cheapo LG MH1 cells is capable of providing 25A continuous. My BMS is limited to 22A, and I need 1A for lights. I haven't had any need to increase controller amps from 15A yet, despite hauling heavy trailers up hills. I have yet to find a hill and/or hauling task which would require the BBS01B's max 20A. I'm certain [mention=3847]saneagle[/mention] could list 250W rated hub motors capable of withstanding 20A to 30A coursing through their windings (he said as much recently on a thread somewhere), for legal hub motored Woosh Hill Slayers™. A stable of such beast pedelecs would be the envy of other manufacturers, and would fly off his bike racks, I reckon, judging by the many queries about hills we get on this forum from the: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3I8hK3OqwY Edited June 26, 20232 yr by guerney
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