Update on N.I. e-bike regs.

Hi Guys

Sorry for the clumsy attachment, hope you can read them.

It is becoming a lot more complicated now and if it is to apply in this part of the UK I am assuming that it will be proposed in the rest of the UK otherwise we have a discrimination issue. We may need your help soon.

Scammers!

NOT good news.

 

I hope nobody goes down this route, if there`s a noticeable take up here i`m sure the extra revenue will be noticed and there could well be ramifications for the rest of the UK ebikers.

 

No mention of indicators, stoplights, tyres, mirrors etc?? Surely we would need those when overtaking in the fast lane of the M1........ at 15.5 mph?

 

What a crock of horse manure.

Hi Guys

Sorry for the clumsy attachment, hope you can read them.

It is becoming a lot more complicated now and if it is to apply in this part of the UK I am assuming that it will be proposed in the rest of the UK otherwise we have a discrimination issue. We may need your help soon.

 

There's no chance of the registration process being proposed or adopted in the rest of the UK, this in origin is specifically a Northern Ireland problem related to there being no sitting assembly at crucial times.

 

The DVLA help wasn't specifically produced for N.I., it's the existing L1e-A class law, which is the default in the absence of pedelec exemption from motor vehicle law. The rest of the UK already has the L1e-A law, but also the pedelec exemption.

 

Since Northern Ireland's transport law is devolved, there is no UK discrimination issue since they are entitled to make their own law on pedelec usage.

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yes they`re entitled to make their own law ok, but if that particular law discriminates against one particular section of the population then it is, well, .....Discrimination!

Is it not?!

 

and if anyone wants a glimpse on whats involved in registration, here`s a simple guide for you ...>https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584797/V355X4-Guide-to-filling-in-the-application-for-first-vehcle-tax-and-registration-of-a-new-motor-vehicle.pdf

No mention of indicators, stoplights, tyres, mirrors etc??

 

Not applicable since this only concerns usage, not L1e vehicle type approval.

 

It's N.I.'s lack of our 2003 Two and Three Wheeled Type Approval regulation that's caused this problem in the first instance, there apparently being no sitting assembly on 9th May 2003 to receive the EU mandatory instruction to pass it into law within six months.

 

Once the 10th November 2003 had passed, it was too late.

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Edited September 14, 20178 yr by flecc

yes they`re entitled to make their own law ok, but if that particular law discriminates against one particular section of the population then it is, well, .....Discrimination!

Is it not?!

 

No, discrimination law cannot overrule devolved power, this is after all EU law compliant with the Human Rights Act and ECJ rulings etc.

 

Even apart from the issue of devolved power, all EU countries are entitled to set their own vehicle usage rules and there's considerable diversity throughout the EU. We in the rest of the UK suffer such differences too, for example the 14 years lower age limit for riding a pedelec which doesn't exist in other EU countries. There's others too.

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I have been referred to the original document from the DVLA which seems to state that these restrictions / regulations apply to "twist and go" electric bikes. (Throttle operated)

It would appear that they don't apply to standard pedelecs which are powered by pedalling, with a bit of assistance for those in need.

I'm not sure I am convinced.

I have been referred to the original document from the DVLA which seems to state that these restrictions / regulations apply to "twist and go" electric bikes. (Throttle operated)

It would appear that they don't apply to standard pedelecs which are powered by pedalling, with a bit of assistance for those in need.

I'm not sure I am convinced.

 

It does apply in the absence of an exemption for pedelecs from being classed as motor vehicles. The Twist and Go regulation is then the minimum class for pedelecs to be classified into as motor vehicles. The regulation doesn't require them to have a throttle.

 

In any case Twist and Go is an informal term. The old legal name for this bicycle based vehicle class was Low Powered Moped, the newer EU legal name is L1e-A. In both cases it provides for assist speed up to 25 kph and power rating up to 1000 watts.

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Will be subject to an MOT test......

The Look on the MOT testers face would be priceless.

Will be subject to an MOT test......

The Look on the MOT testers face would be priceless.

 

 

I don't know if you have CBT* in N.I., but the look on a CBT tester's face would also be something!

 

*Compulsory Basic Training for any motorcycle licence.

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How very eccentric! I can imagine the headlines "Man, 65, dies of suffocation while pedaling his bicycle in full face motorcycle helmet"...

Yes, there`s a CBT,

 

anyone taking either this MOT or CBT test will feel a right knob walking in with a push bike and a battery, i can just hear the testers now sniggering in the corner,

 

the part highlighted will be interesting, a few batteries required no doubt...

 

Duration of the CBT course

There are five elements in the syllabus that covers CBT training. Elements A to D are not time-bound - the length of time will depend on your ability. However, element E will be a minimum of four hours. The overall length of the course will vary depending on your ability, knowledge, understanding and skills.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/about-compulsory-basic-training-cbt

Yes, there`s a CBT,

 

anyone taking either this MOT or CBT test will feel a right knob walking in with a push bike and a battery, i can just hear the testers now sniggering in the corner,

 

the part highlighted will be interesting, a few batteries required no doubt...

 

Duration of the CBT course

There are five elements in the syllabus that covers CBT training. Elements A to D are not time-bound - the length of time will depend on your ability. However, element E will be a minimum of four hours. The overall length of the course will vary depending on your ability, knowledge, understanding and skills.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/about-compulsory-basic-training-cbt

 

It just gets sillier and sillier with the introduction of needing a group Q driving licence for a 15.5 mph vehicle,

 

A further complication is that the 14 years lower limit for riding pedelecs loses force, the minimum age when riding under a group Q licence is 16 years.

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Where are you going to get insurance from. when all is said and done with the cost of registration, high cost of insurance and all the other complications, surely, it would be much easier to put your ebike in the shed and buy a used moped. I can't see that any sensible person would want to get their ebike registered

How about you do a group ride through town with the motors turned off. Get the press out. If plod intervenes you can say "It can't be a motorbike if it isn't using a motor"... You need to heap scorn and ridicule on the politicians who let this kind of cr.p happen. And my thoughts on the "United" in UK, you don't want to hear those...

I'm almost 67. In my younger days I would fly down a hill at 40 mph plus on my Claude Butler. No problems ever with the police. If I toddle along now at 12 mph on an ebike I risk being hauled into court on a charge. Totally ridiculous situation. I'm all for a protest ride in Belfast.

How about you do a group ride through town with the motors turned off. Get the press out. If plod intervenes you can say "It can't be a motorbike if it isn't using a motor"... You need to heap scorn and ridicule on the politicians who let this kind of cr.p happen. And my thoughts on the "United" in UK, you don't want to hear those...

 

Compared to the rest of the UK there are not nearly as many ebikes in use. Apart from that the logistics of getting those folk with their bikes into the centre of Belfast would be difficult to say the least as cars and vans would be needed for transport from all corners of the country.

I originally thought of this plan and how good it would be but although cycling here is huge ebiking is small. I was disappointed to speak to a lot of folk recently about everyday things but when I mentioned the e-bike proposals they looked cold and hadn't heard about them.

However when I was stopped anywhere on the bike I got a lot of admiring looks and enthusiastic comments but I'm not sure we would get the proper sort of attention needed while blocking the roads around City Hall.

I'm almost 67. In my younger days I would fly down a hill at 40 mph plus on my Claude Butler. No problems ever with the police. If I toddle along now at 12 mph on an ebike I risk being hauled into court on a charge. Totally ridiculous situation. I'm all for a protest ride in Belfast.

Totally agree. If only....

See my post above.

I'm not sure we would get the proper sort of attention needed while blocking the roads around City Hall.

 

I agree it might not be helpful. The police there have given a sort of nod and wink that as long as a rider is behaving, they are unlikely to take any notice of a pedelec rider.

 

Forcing them to take notice could harden attitudes.

 

A better time to demonstrate to ridicule the authorities would be if and when a prosecution was attempted, since that may never happen.

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I agree it might not be helpful. The police there have given a sort of nod and wink that as long as a rider is behaving, they are unlikely to take any notice of a pedelec rider.

 

Forcing them to take notice could harden attitudes.

 

A better time to demonstrate to ridicule the authorities would be if and when a prosecution was attempted, since that may never happen.

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Agree but a prosecution would possibly only happen if there was an accident involving a member of the public and that would send out all the wrong signals.

I have said (thought) all along that a "test case" would provide a LOT of answers.

Since the "ban" began I have never seen an e-bike in use so I feel, like ours, all ebikes are locked away.

Edited September 14, 20178 yr by TedG

With proper respect to all you "competitive" boys I can say that the handful of e-bike users we have encountered in the last two years have been like ourselves and into our sixties with health issues.

We saw little or nothing in the way of poor behaviour on e-bikes but again at the risk of the wrath of conventional cyclists some of their behaviour sadly leaves a lot to be desired.

 

On another somewhat irrelevant point I was a squeaky clean unblemished Class One HGV driver hauling steel since 1971 until forced retirement but the standard of most of those "professionals" these days also leaves a bit to be desired.

Edited September 14, 20178 yr by TedG

yes they`re entitled to make their own law ok, but if that particular law discriminates against one particular section of the population then it is, well, .....Discrimination!

Is it not?!

 

and if anyone wants a glimpse on whats involved in registration, here`s a simple guide for you ...>https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584797/V355X4-Guide-to-filling-in-the-application-for-first-vehcle-tax-and-registration-of-a-new-motor-vehicle.pdf

That form makes me feel sick. It is a minefield of complexities.

How about you do a group ride through town with the motors turned off. Get the press out. If plod intervenes you can say "It can't be a motorbike if it isn't using a motor"... You need to heap scorn and ridicule on the politicians who let this kind of cr.p happen. And my thoughts on the "United" in UK, you don't want to hear those...

.. don't you get it? It's because they have no government sitting there is no politicians to embarrass