Hi,
Here's a brief field report and a couple of pics of my kit bike:
Kit bike: 2007 Specialized Stump Jumper FSR Expert with TSDZ2 and 10.4 AH battery from ebike sales. L size frame. Paid £350 for it on ebay.
Haibike: I am not sure what the exact model was because my friend is a bit cagey about it but he said it had RRP of ~£7000 but he paid ~£4500. It was 2017 model with Bosch drive and 15 AH battery. He reckons he can use if for a year and sell it for more than he paid for it. Yeeeeaaaah rite! Good luck on that.
Couple of pictures of my bike:
So the comparison:
Firstly, both bikes were unrestricted top-speed wise. I had the TSDZ2 Stumpjumper set to 12 amps rather than 16. We did a 15 mile route with about 2/3 on tarmac and 1/3 off-road - mainly very muddy fields and canal side. The Stumpjumper had knobbly tires, the Haibike had Schwalbe Supreme (semi slick).
Riding experience:
Riding both bikes, the experience on tarmac is very very similar. The torque sensor based assist on the TSDZ2 is obviously not a million miles from the Haibike experience. The most notable difference was that the TSDZ2 provides a lot more assistance from a standstill and at very low speeds, whereas the Bosch system seems to ration it and only increase the assistance when you start moving a bit faster. Some of these things are probably configurable. Peddling on the flat I was able to get the Haibike up to slightly higher speeds, about 30mph rather than 26mph on the Stumpjumper. However the slick tires on the Haibike probably helped a lot here.
Offroad. I didn't ride the Haibike Offroad. It was on semi-slicks so probably wouldn't have been that great and it lagged quite far behind me. One thing I will say about the TSDZ2 is that in deep mud at slow speeds it span the back wheel sending mud flying into the air and causing rear wheel skids. I've heard complaints about the TSDZ2 being 'too sensitive' but the opposite was true here. It would rotate the rear wheel when there was no traction and continue after I'd reduced the pressure on the pedals to avoid skidding. So not great in deep mud at slow speeds.
Battery life: Stumpjumper down to 1 bar at the end. Haibike indicating half battery gone.
Reliability. Well this, as far as I can see, is the main thing you are paying for if you go for a Haibike. Both bikes performed on this test with no issues. However, as I said on other threads, I had this kit on another bike previously and it gave me problems, which turned out to be the battery which I only got around to fixing a year later. I could have returned it all to the vendor originally but to be honest I'm really busy and didn't have the time/energy/motivation to dismantle it all and send it back. So, yes the kit option is more hassle, but is it £3200 more hassle? Not for me. Sending back a Haibike would also be hassle.
Actually, if you prefer to buy things new then the Haibike at £4500 isn't that bad. A 2017 Stumpjumper with a comparable specification to my 2007 one would be over £3000. Bikes I one thing I always buy 2nd hand because so many people buy one and hardly even use it. Bargains are galore.
Some notes on the Stumpjumper build: I swapped the components onto Stumpy in about 45 minutes having had some experience with the previous TSDZ2 build on my Trek Soho. My research tells me that the 2007 Stumpjumper is the last one with a 'standard' bottom bracket, so later years you may have to get some additional adaptors. It is 73mm Hollowtech 2 bottom Bracket, so you need a Hollowtech 2 BB removal tool, not a square taper one. The TSDZ2 anti rotation bracket could not be fitted due to the Stumpjumper having rear wheel suspension - you could do it but you'd need a bespoke part. Initially I had some problems with the motor rotating forwards and the wire connectors popping out, so I mounted the battery butted up against the front of the motor so now it can't move. The battery can actually fit in the internal triangle, but the battery + mounting plate can't (slightly too long), so I slung it under the bottom of the bike with cable ties. This is very secure and I like the weight distribution it gives.
Here's a brief field report and a couple of pics of my kit bike:
Kit bike: 2007 Specialized Stump Jumper FSR Expert with TSDZ2 and 10.4 AH battery from ebike sales. L size frame. Paid £350 for it on ebay.
Haibike: I am not sure what the exact model was because my friend is a bit cagey about it but he said it had RRP of ~£7000 but he paid ~£4500. It was 2017 model with Bosch drive and 15 AH battery. He reckons he can use if for a year and sell it for more than he paid for it. Yeeeeaaaah rite! Good luck on that.
Couple of pictures of my bike:
So the comparison:
Firstly, both bikes were unrestricted top-speed wise. I had the TSDZ2 Stumpjumper set to 12 amps rather than 16. We did a 15 mile route with about 2/3 on tarmac and 1/3 off-road - mainly very muddy fields and canal side. The Stumpjumper had knobbly tires, the Haibike had Schwalbe Supreme (semi slick).
Riding experience:
Riding both bikes, the experience on tarmac is very very similar. The torque sensor based assist on the TSDZ2 is obviously not a million miles from the Haibike experience. The most notable difference was that the TSDZ2 provides a lot more assistance from a standstill and at very low speeds, whereas the Bosch system seems to ration it and only increase the assistance when you start moving a bit faster. Some of these things are probably configurable. Peddling on the flat I was able to get the Haibike up to slightly higher speeds, about 30mph rather than 26mph on the Stumpjumper. However the slick tires on the Haibike probably helped a lot here.
Offroad. I didn't ride the Haibike Offroad. It was on semi-slicks so probably wouldn't have been that great and it lagged quite far behind me. One thing I will say about the TSDZ2 is that in deep mud at slow speeds it span the back wheel sending mud flying into the air and causing rear wheel skids. I've heard complaints about the TSDZ2 being 'too sensitive' but the opposite was true here. It would rotate the rear wheel when there was no traction and continue after I'd reduced the pressure on the pedals to avoid skidding. So not great in deep mud at slow speeds.
Battery life: Stumpjumper down to 1 bar at the end. Haibike indicating half battery gone.
Reliability. Well this, as far as I can see, is the main thing you are paying for if you go for a Haibike. Both bikes performed on this test with no issues. However, as I said on other threads, I had this kit on another bike previously and it gave me problems, which turned out to be the battery which I only got around to fixing a year later. I could have returned it all to the vendor originally but to be honest I'm really busy and didn't have the time/energy/motivation to dismantle it all and send it back. So, yes the kit option is more hassle, but is it £3200 more hassle? Not for me. Sending back a Haibike would also be hassle.
Actually, if you prefer to buy things new then the Haibike at £4500 isn't that bad. A 2017 Stumpjumper with a comparable specification to my 2007 one would be over £3000. Bikes I one thing I always buy 2nd hand because so many people buy one and hardly even use it. Bargains are galore.
Some notes on the Stumpjumper build: I swapped the components onto Stumpy in about 45 minutes having had some experience with the previous TSDZ2 build on my Trek Soho. My research tells me that the 2007 Stumpjumper is the last one with a 'standard' bottom bracket, so later years you may have to get some additional adaptors. It is 73mm Hollowtech 2 bottom Bracket, so you need a Hollowtech 2 BB removal tool, not a square taper one. The TSDZ2 anti rotation bracket could not be fitted due to the Stumpjumper having rear wheel suspension - you could do it but you'd need a bespoke part. Initially I had some problems with the motor rotating forwards and the wire connectors popping out, so I mounted the battery butted up against the front of the motor so now it can't move. The battery can actually fit in the internal triangle, but the battery + mounting plate can't (slightly too long), so I slung it under the bottom of the bike with cable ties. This is very secure and I like the weight distribution it gives.
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