TSDZ2 install and initial impression

Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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Well, it ain't pretty. A nasty purple many hands down low rent mountain bike with a TV mounted on the handlebars.

I bought the bike second hand when at uni and before my son was born and he's 25 now...I gave the bike to my son for a few years and he lent it out to his makes in Bristol and it's had quite a few drunken scrapes....

Anyway, cost of living crisis and make do and mend and all that (and I don't want to leave an expensive bike kicking about). Kit arrived midday, and after a senior moment whilst trying to check the parts and conduct a work conf call I decided the battery connection extension was wrong - had not used Anderson connections before and both sides look the same...anyway, sent an email to Whoosh before I realized I was being an idiot and had to sheepishly email back and explain my stupidity. Anyway, lunch break gave me some time to focus a bit.

The kit was very easy to install. My BB is slightly weird in that the front derailleur mount extends around the BB. Removing the BB and front derailleur results in a weird length shell. No worries, I had predicted this and bought a spacer. All fitted snug as a bug after that.

Still have some tidy up to do but wanted to have a quick test. Did 24 miles with a couple of runs at a very steep hill with about 800 foot of ascent each time. I have an 11t-28t 7 speed cassette which could do with replacing and I wanted to know if I should go to 32t or 34t (which would also mean a new rear derailleur or a derailleur extender as mine is mss 28t - there were limited options when dinosaurs roamed the earth and my bike was made.

Long story short, the killer hill required some grunt from me but was quite manageable. The hill in question is Deer's leap in the Mendip hills - straight up from Wookey Hole to top of the Mendip's. In reality a 32t may have helped.

Ok, about the kit itself (very early impressions). It's a whoosh TSDZ2 250w 48v with 10ah bag battery. I tried the throttle and found it quite pointless. I'm quite happy peddling all the time and want some exercise, not a moped. When I was on the steepest sections I tried the throttle and it didn't add any more power. I found that I could do the steepest sections on tour mode and going up to speed or turbo made little difference. speed was useful when the incline relaxed from super steep as it gave me more assistance and chance for a breather. I did sometimes find I was peddling at too high a cadence for the motor and slacking off a bit or changing up a gear actually got more assistance - will take some getting used to but I already have an idea about what speeds I should be moving at in each gear to get good assistance.

I was often cycling faster than the cutoff and not too much drag. I found that I had more to give in the easier sections having not exhausted myself on the harder bits. I do want to do a GPS speed test as I think the display is over stating the speed. I went through an electronic speed sign that said I was doing 17mph when the display said I was doing 19mph (but not sure the signs are super accurate). This was not assisted before anybody wags a finger - the assistance had long since faded out.

I'm or 2 bars down on the battery out of maybe 6 or 8 bars? I suspect that the bars will not be linear - otherwise that's crazy range given the terrain and my tardy input.

The bag battery look well put together and fits the supplied bag remarkably well. However, I'm not convinced the bag will last very long...I kind of expected this and anticipated having to find a different solution. I have a cunning plan for the battery...

Now, that stupid display. It's like having a TV screen mounted to the handlebars. I will have to live with it. Knowing what I know now I would have asked for a 6 pin motor and got one of the much more compact displays. Still, it's a minor gripe.

Summary is torque sensing mid drive was the correct choice for me. Just hope it is reliable. I know I will need to change the blue cog from time to time and can live with that.

C
 

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Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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By the way, it weighs about 20.5kg. certainly not light but not stupid either. And that's with 2 racks, mudguards etc. Not sure weight is a massive deal on ebikes but given I am often offer the assistance level then it has some relevance...
 
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Bikes4two

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Welcome to the 'TSDZ2 Happy Club' - between friends and self, we've 5 of them and everyone is happy with their motor. Yes, there might be minor niggles to deal with but at their price point they are good value.

I've around 6000Km on mine now and although I've not looked recently, I've no reason to believe the blue gear needs attention (and if it does, I'll replace like for like rather than the noiser brass version).

The stock firmware cuts the motor power at a cadence of 90 RPM - you'll need to go the OSF route to change this to 120 RPM but doing so will void your warranty and you'll want to keep Woosh on side in the event of any warranty issues.

I ride like you I think as in I like to put a bit of my own effort into the riding and I get 50 miles out of my 10Ah battery on the ECO setting.

I and most of my friends prefer the VLCD6 for it's minimalistic style - there may be a way of changing out the VLCD5 (8 pin) to the 6 pin VLCD6 (but not the other way around), but that'd require some research.
 

Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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I may flash when warranty is up. I'm in IT and have flashed all manner of devices :)

I think putting a 6 pin display on an 8 pin motor is easy with a splitter cable but all the ones I have seen are quite long and more unsightly cable. Shame I can't find a short 8 to 6 pin cable but this is all just minor detail.

C
 
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Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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I would be curious to understand more about the 4 default modes on the 48v 250w Whoosh kit.

I did a quick spin at lunchtime and it is quite windy and somewhat hilly. I stayed in 'tour' which had me working moderately hard but much easier than no assistance. I can see that I might use 'speed' on prolonged hills or if completely knackered but can't forsee me needing to resort to 'turbo' ever really. I expect that by the time I would be so knackered to use turbo then the battery would also be flat....

Does anybody know the maximum percentage of assistance in each node? Also, is there a different maximum power in each mode?

C
 

Nealh

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Aug 7, 2014
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My tsdz2 not woosh supplied had the following settings torque assist.
Eco 40%.
Tour 80%
Sport 120%
Turbo 180%

Power assist mode.
Eco 60%
Tour 120%
Sport 200%
Turbo 300%

I changed mine though to Hybrid mode which is a combo of the Power assist and Torque modes.

Also I tweaked the % levels.

Torque mode.
Eco 65%
Tour 110%
Sport 150%
Turbo 210%

Power assist mode.
Eco 70%
Tour 140%
Sport 230%
Turbo 340%

One can choose up to 500% max .
 
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Nealh

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There are six assistance modes as indicated below.


51013
 
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Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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Lots of good info. I suspect the default assistance levels for torque sensing are similar to the defaults in custom firmware.

What I will say is that I am blown away with how frugal the kit is. Only done 26 miles today on a fully charged 10ah battery, but it was windy and hilly. Cycled up the a39 from Wells to on top the Mendip's and it was a breeze - even had panniers and some shopping. I am sure the bars on the display are not linear but still on all bars even with voltage sag going up the hill. My guess is that I will get at least 35 miles range from the 10ah battery in this terrain, possibly 40? Winter and cold will knock it a bit but it's very impressive.

I have settled on a new 12-32t 7 speed cassette with the 42t stock chainring and 26 inch wheels. This will get me up anything around here I am likely to want to try and allow me to change down lower than my current 28t for the long uphills to increase the ratio of rider input Vs motor input.

My last bit of riding today was 6.7 miles from wells to on top the Mendip's with almost 800ft of ascent and lots of head wind one on top. Took me 30 mins almost exactly and without too much effort. That's a respectable pace.

As I said, I am very pleased with the kit.

C
 
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Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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Just to clarify, my 26 miles today is what I did, the battery is still showing a full set of charge bars. I didn't put in that much effort either, had an energetic caving trip yesterday and recovering from a hip problem after a very 'moist' OFD trip a few weeks ago. I had hoped to get ~25 miles range our of the bike considering the hills, looks like that will be easy to achieve...
 
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Nealh

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Aug 7, 2014
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From my 8.2ah 21700 2p12s battery I get 24 miles towing a laden trailer, I use eco mode with Hybrid assist .
 
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Bikes4two

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Feb 21, 2020
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I have a 10Ah bottle battery and a 10Ah home built 21700 (LG M50LT) 10s/2p battery and I ride ECO all of the time now and I consistently get 45+ miles. I've ridden both batteries to 50 miles and whilst there is still some assistance, you can feel that power is flagging and calling for a higher level assist at this point doesn't achieve anything.
 

Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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The whoosh bag battery is Samsung 50g cells according to the label. I will do a proper range test but shortly, but did a lazy (me not trying very hard) 26 miles enjoying the sun yesterday but went out with a full charge as until I get a better idea of range I want to play it safe and not have a painful slog home (no way I can self power my way on the last few miles home given the big hill and loss of granny chainring). Given the previous day's 25 miles jaunt required 1.5 hours battery charging on a 2a charger, I am guessing there was plenty of juice left. I'm glad I didn't go for a larger capacity battery. I am going to do a couple of shorter rides today and see if I can get a better idea of achievable range.

Tbh, the biggest limiting factor is my bike isn't built for speed. Knobly tyres, upright position, fat old git on the saddle. For those who say that the ebike means factors like rolling resistance aren't that important, I think some streamlining will keep me above the 15.5 mph cutoff quite a bit more. If I get the bug for this I think my next conversation will be a gravel bike with drop bars. Baby steps though...

I am really not trying to go into the office at the moment and trying to get a working from home contract (cycling in will just complicate that at the moment, "why not cycle in every day"). It's about 22 miles each way, in to work (Bath) is much easier than home (Mendip's) but I am completely confident I have the range if I charge at work. I suspect I can do the round trip on a single charge.

C
 
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Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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We'll, I'm on 51 miles on a charge now and I haven't been very careful for most of it. Under load the display is on 3 out of 6 bars which makes me think I'm nearing the end, but some short blats of turbo assistance up some steep sections were still possible. The last 10 miles I was being quite conservative but just before that I did a long hard climb on turbo (my legs are tired and I had 3 bottles of wine and a kg of coffee beens from the supermarket). I expect I could get another 10 miles out of the battery with conservative cycling.

A large part of the 50+ miles has been hilly Mendip terrain with moderate winds but not cold.

I did find on the steep hill today that progress seemed harder. I am not used to cycling and the voltage must have dropped a bit. I think a lower gearing will definitely help. My cassette is 11-28t and I think a 12-32t would work much better. It will allow me to put in a greater share of the load on the climbs, especially when the battery is somewhat depleted. Also noticing my knees are feeling it which is probably the result of not low enough gearing.

I tend to think 70 miles may be achievable with road tyres, a slightly fitter me and better gearing. I am guessing I will lose 20% range in colder weather but this is still more than adequate.

Rather than run the battery completely flat, I'm going to charge it now. No point in stressing the battery too much and I've satisfied my curiosity that I can do a hilly 50 miles with a little gas left in the tank. I don't think I'm likely to want to do any more in a day for the foreseeable future.

C
 
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Bikes4two

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  • You're doing well on the battery range side of things and is akin to my own findings.
  • I have an 11-34 on the back and it helps with the hills
  • The TSDZ2 controller won't let you run the battery flat as in damaging the battery chemistry, but will stop you discharging below a set voltage known as the LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff)
  • I don't know what the LVC is with the OEM firmware - in OSF you can set it yourself.
 

Bogmonster666

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Jun 6, 2022
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I would like to fit 11-34t but my wheel (and spare) are only 7 speed

I think it was possible to get an 11-34 7 speed cassette but I can't find one now. Swapping to 8 speed isn't expensive but I'm going to try the 12-32t 7 seed as I think that will work for a lower cost.

I didn't pick the easiest climb up from the supermarket either . A trip to the supermarket is a 10 to 12 mile round trip with 800ft of ascent on the way back...

C
 
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Woosh

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I tend to think 70 miles may be achievable with road tyres, a slightly fitter me and better gearing. I am guessing I will lose 20% range in colder weather but this is still more than adequate.
Your cadence (90rpm) is ideal for the TSDZ2 so 70 miles may be achieveable with the 488WH bag battery.
That averages about 6.9WH per mile. 35 miles if you ride on throttle.
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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I think it was possible to get an 11-34 7 speed cassette but I can't find one now. Swapping to 8 speed isn't expensive but I'm going to try the 12-32t 7 seed as I think that will work for a lower cost.
I've been looking for those myself, and pondering a change to 8 speed - I need freewheel...



 

Simon Knight

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Aug 19, 2009
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We'll, I'm on 51 miles on a charge now and I haven't been very careful for most of it. Under load the display is on 3 out of 6 bars which makes me think I'm nearing the end, but some short blats of turbo assistance up some steep sections were still possible. The last 10 miles I was being quite conservative but just before that I did a long hard climb on turbo (my legs are tired and I had 3 bottles of wine and a kg of coffee beens from the supermarket). I expect I could get another 10 miles out of the battery with conservative cycling.

A large part of the 50+ miles has been hilly Mendip terrain with moderate winds but not cold.

<snip>

I tend to think 70 miles may be achievable with road tyres, a slightly fitter me and better gearing. I am guessing I will lose 20% range in colder weather but this is still more than adequate.
Hi,

I have just started using a TSDZ2 on my trike and riding in flat Lincolnshire I am surprised at the range it is giving me. So far on my first charge I'm at sixty miles with the battery indicating full. Mind you my knees hurt keeping it above cut off speed.

S