TSDZ2 Conversion

[harrys]

My wife used to ride a red Raleigh Drop Bar Mixte in the late 70's. Sadly, we got rid of it, but I came across this blue one in 2021. It's been finally updated with a 500W TSDZ2 that I purchased in 2019. I never installed the Tong Sheng motor, because I heard it was underpowered. and I had planned to update the firmware, but never did.

The TSDZ2 was originally planned for a 20" minivello I had, but I gave it to my 9 year old grand daughter. She figured out the hand brakes and shifter right away.

So I put new tires on the Raleigh. Pried off the 5 speed freewheel and swapped in a 6 speed. Found an unused Shimano Tourney derailleur in my junk box. Took off the front derailleur, Trigger shifter replaced the index shifter. New alloy handlebars and grips, New pads on the rim brakes. New cables.housings all around.



The battery is a 13S-2P, Sanyo GA's that I wired up and put into a water bottle. This is it next to a Unit Pack Power bottle battery. They don't make a 48V version. Parts for mine cost about $140 USD. It's nominally a 48V7AH pack, and tested out on a caoacity tester at 6.3Ah, I did a 10 mile ride today and only used 1.36AH, so I believe 40 miles is possible.



The TSDZ2 is quite a slow dog. I am not sure if the BMS is limiting current, but I only pulled 13 amps peak today and that included pedaling like mad in turbo mode and only going 21 mph. I was getting 18A on another battery. The 2P GA cells are maxed out at 20A anyway.

I have the current setting at 25A. Speed limiter set to max.

I am also not used to torque sensing. I prefer the "torque simulation" feel on a KT controller in PAS 1. Then again, for that same 10 mile ride, my 25A KT controller on a Q100H motor would have used 2x the power, so I guess this bike will make me work again.

It looks good though. I will investigate the low peak current, maybe build a battery that can push 40A.

 

[Sturmey]

The TSDZ2 is quite a slow dog........I am also not used to torque sensing. I prefer the "torque simulation" feel on a KT controller in PAS 1. .......the low peak current .......

I have the 36v version and similar experience. But I do have a throttle that seems to work and gives full output. In my case the problem is with my legs. They are not strong enough and this will limit the motor output, as the torque sensor setup only gives a limited multiple of the the riders input.

 

[Bikes4two]

I did a 10 mile ride today and only used 1.36AH, so I believe 40 miles is possible.

I have the TSDZ2 (250w 36v) and rarely ride more than the ECO setting and my 10Ah (nominal) bottle battery (measured at 9.75Ah) gives me a good 50+ miles, so yes, the 40 mile estimate is highly likely.

The TSDZ2 is quite a slow dog. I am not sure if the BMS is limiting current

Could be - I had a number of BMS issues (cutting out, not charging properly) so I wired it in Discharge Bypass mode (so the BMS only looks after the charging aspect - lots of vids/posts about this in the world of e-skate boards).

I have the current setting at 25A.

I'm assuming that you're using OSF for this? The default/OEM current setting is 16A max iirc? Apart from 25A being more than the Sanyo GA max, I'm wondering if the controller might be stressed at 25A?

The TSDZ2 is quite a slow dog

Hmmm - slow in comparison to what I wonder? I bought the TSDZ2 to assist my cycling after a period of downtime/health issues and in this respect I have found the motor entirely adequate for my needs nay, more than adequate I'd say.

However, for those riders requiring more of a boost from their motor, then their perception would be different especially if one was looking for a throttle/ghost pedalling type experience.

Being Torque Assist, the TSDZ2 does make you work to a dgree more than say, a motor that just uses Cadence Assist.

 

[harrys]

The TSDZ2 is my 10th conversion so I have a good feel for what's fast/slow. As the Raleigh is one of my lighter bikes, I really don't need any assist to go 12 mph in its highest gear, so I can't tell if pedal assist helps much in Eco or Tour mode.

My bottle battery can peak at 21 amps on another bike. I also tried a bigger battery on the TSDZ2, and peak current remains 12.7 amps. The limit is in the stock firmware. Suppose I should have bought the 750W version. Abyway, no need for a bigger battery.

My average speed around here is like 12 mph anyway. I can ride in Turbo for more.

For now, I'll look at finishing up the Raleigh restore. I upgraded to Koolstop brake pads. They are quiet and stop quite well. Should soon receive some metal clamp-on brackets to mount the water bottle battery on the lower downtube. Maybe repaint the battery.

Lots of rust on the rims to clean or maybe replace with alloy, Got a wobbly freewheel. Might be bent axle.

 

[Dule]

Nice bike!
For a light hybrid bike, what would you suggest, a TSDZ2 or a light hub like Q100H? Main purpose is keeping lightweight, with small battery, and speed up to 30 km/h for commuting.

 

[harrys]

I've converted four 20" bikes (three folders and one mini) using Q100H motors and find them pretty good. I've never used one on a 26" wheel, and would probably go with the Q128. On 48V, my 20" folders out-accelerate the TSDZ2 Raleigh and will throttle to a higher speed.

My Raleigh was built more for looks than performance, I couldn't put a hub motor on it, but I couldn't recommend it either.

PSWpower is selling the TSDZ2B motor now. The admin of the TSDZ2 facebook forum, a US reseller of both the motor and OSF firmware enhanced controllers, says it is a significant redesign with a stronger composite gear, better construction and cooling.

 

[harrys]

My little Velo-Orange bottle cage clips arrived, so I've put the battery on the lower bar. Riding around today, I find it a pleasure to ride. The motor is silent, and the Raleigh's 27" wheels soak up all the bumps that my 20" folder ebikes transmit. And I'm a slow rider anyway.

Have ordered the firmware update cable and will pursue that in the winter.

 

[Bikes4two]

A question (and apologies if I've lost the plot):
1. As I understand it, there are two generations of controller with the latest one using a different microprocessor and the Open Source Firmware (OSF) does not work with it
2. The new TSDZ2b - which generation controller is fitted to this motor version?

Thanks.

 

[Nealh]

2b is reportedly using the new controller but one needs to double check the controller to be sure.
One can check the speed cable connector controller side to see which controller is fitted.
The old controller one will see 5v register between gnd & swim and 0v register on the new controller.
Looking at the 6 pin connector with the flat part to the top gnd/swim are the pin outs top L & top R.

 

[Bikes4two]

2b is reportedly using the new controller but one needs to double check the controller to be sure.
One can check the speed cable connector controller side to see which controller is fitted.
The old controller one will see 5v register between gnd & swim and 0v register on the new controller.
Looking at the 6 pin connector with the flat part to the top gnd/swim are the pin outs top L & top R.

Thanks Neal - I've included the annotated pic below for others less familiar with the motor 6 pin pin arrangement.

 

[Nealh]

Enerprof certainly only sell tsdz2 with the new controller.
PSWPower are believed to be selling the old controller and risun uk are using old controllers.

 

[mimran91]

Enerprof certainly only sell tsdz2 with the new controller.
PSWPower are believed to be selling the old controller and risun uk are using old controllers.

I was going to buy from pspower until I saw your post. What is the difference between the controllers?

 

[Nealh]

I was going to buy from pspower until I saw your post. What is the difference between the controllers?

If one wants to re -programme with better firmware using OSF then one needs the old controller, if one buys the new controller version then one can't re-programme them.
To be sure the guys on ES forum know for sure where to buy old controller version.
My tsdz2 came from risunuk seller and a uk warehouse.

 

[Bikes4two]

I was going to buy from pspower until I saw your post. What is the difference between the controllers?

As Neal said, the new controller can't be re-programmed with the Open Source Firmware (OSF) as it uses a different microcontroller to the original.

However, whilst OSF brings general improvements to the OEM version (and hence a quieter more efficent motor) and on top of which you can do more advanced things with the OSF, this may not be something you need/want to do.

And I wonder if the new controllers also have new software and whether it gives many of the improvements that the OSF brings? If so, then not being able to use OSF may not be an issue for you?

 

[mimran91]

I want to have OSF. I had no idea about the diff controllers and thought I NEEDED to buy the newer one so will be going to PSPOWER

 

[harrys]

I bought the little STM module back in 2019 when I bought the TSDZ2 that was recently installed. I've just wired it up to fit the TSDZ2.

I also bought a TSZDB2 from PSWpower because it was marked down to $241 USD. It will be installed on my brother's bike. The TSDZ2 arrived today.

Now it's time to take on the OSF update. I last worked as an electrical engineer many years ago and my bosses expected me to know everything, including how to program stuff I just met as well as kids 30 years younger than me, I figured I had a chance,

I've got the STM tool and drivers loaded up. and I see how to load eco-cycles files, although I've yet to try it a program. Seems like you run it on an unpowered TSDZ2,. They have "stock" files which aren't stock, but have been set for the 36,48, and 52V models for higher power. I should try the 48V one first. Tomorrow,

I have the VLCD5. That led me to downlaod the mbrusa code, for the VLCD5. This was different. I liked their configurator screen but it took me a while to see how to make it happen.

-Install Java on my laptop

https://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp

-Install an SDCC compiler

Small Device C Compiler (SDCC) - Browse Files at SourceForge.net

The Small Device C Compiler (SDCC), targeting 8-bit architectures

sourceforge.net

-recall how to run windows in command line un my mbruusa folder.
jar -jar "JavaConfigurator.jar"

Wow, the configurator with all those parameters popped up. I gather that if I set it as desired, and execute, it will invoke STM automatically and flash the TSDZ2? That sure is sweet.

I got a lot of reading of his manuals to see what these parameters do first,

This old ebiker never signed up for all of this modern stuff. I had thought it was better just to buy a board pre-flashed from eco-cycle and pay them the extra hundred-fifty bucks, but I was too cheap and they didn't have any controllers in stock anyway. Well, it's good to pick up something new.

I plan to reflash my old TSDZ2, Hope the TSDZ2B flashes too,



.

 

[guerney]

I gather that if I set it as desired, and execute, it will invoke STM automatically and flash the TSDZ2?

Without connecting to the controller: if you get this screen after hitting "Compile and flash", the software is set up correctly to flash firmware:

 

[Nealh]

As I found out the hardest part was having a PC system that accepted the JAVA download. As a non techy person bar some basic stuff, W10 is my system and the laptop simply refused to upload the JAVA programme no matter what was tried.
Out of desperation I had an older disused notebook with a dead battery and a smashed screen but still working when plugged in to the mains, it strangely uploaded JAVA and all the assoicated OSF files and is my source for programming the TSDZ2.

In the end I/we on the forum got there with a bit of frustration.

 

[guerney]

Let's hope he doesn't see this screen upon hitting "Compile and flash" - the software side is ultimately fixable, one way or another.

 

[Nealh]

Ultimately as suggested by SW I turned off the updates on the old smashed notebook so that it remains usable.