Trek Cytronex - First Impressions.

Those who have seen my other thread will know that I ordered a Trek-Cytronex at Presteigne from Mark and Sam of No-Hills.com (http://www.no-hills.com/). The bike is basically a Trek 7.3 FX hybrid with a Tongxin motor in the front hub. For those who haven’t seen the discussion over the past couple of weeks, this is basically the same motor as used in the well regarded Brompton Nano marketed by Tony Castles but there has been some debate about the reliability of the controller supplied by Tongxin. My own research suggests that the problems were associated with a limited number of controllers and seem now to have been resolved. Anyway, if I have any problems, I promise to tell you all.

 

So, before I describe the bike and the ride, let me dispel any myth that I might actually be fit that could have arisen from my admission on the other thread that I used to race competitively. I did, but that was 40 years ago! I rode a few time trials, either on a tandem or as two-ups with my sons when they were starting to race themselves (the last about 6 years ago), but rapidly stopped when I could no longer keep up with them! Add to that, the fact that I have just emerged from 4 years (hopefully successful) treatment for prostate cancer and that I am currently 2 stone overweight, and you will begin to get the picture.

 

When I picked up the bikes this morning, Mark warned me that one of the two batteries had not been through the three charging cycles necessary to get them up to full power. So, having charged them both on the small intelligent chargers supplied, I gallantly put that one on my wife’s bike!

 

We set out for a country pub about 5 miles away, by a route that was designed to be as hilly as I could make it. The whoop of joy and smile on Lynne’s face said all that needed to be said as she cut the motor in on the first hill. The motor actually takes about half a second to make itself felt as it is “sensorless” and relies on the back EMF to tell it what it is supposed to be doing. The Trek doesn’t have a throttle, but a two speed switch. The first speed tries to take you along at about 12.5 mph (I think…… Mark will correct, I’m sure) the second speed wants to take you to the legal maximum of about 16.5 mph. What speed you actually do depends upon the steepness of the hill and how much effort you put in. On the flat, it will simply cruise along at those speeds without assistance from the rider (but what’s the point of that!). The slightest touch on the brake activates a microswitch that cuts the motor out instantly.

 

After pub No 1, we proceeded to pub No 2, chosen because the way home would then involve about 600 yds of a 1in 6 hill. Suitable fortified by the second pint, we were ready to tackle the hill. I went up it at about 8 mph with little effort and never out of the big chainring. On this particularly tough hill, the speed chosen for the motor seemed to make little difference to the final speed achieved.

 

The battery that hadn’t been pre-charged (and Mark had warned us would be “pants”) started to fail at 15 miles. Mine was still going strong, but I was determined to discharge it so I set off on a small local loop taking in the best hills I could find. I also set the motor permanently on full power. It began to weaken at 18 miles, so the claimed range of 20 miles seems feasible with less extreme treatment. I suspect the Welsh hills for which these bikes are destined may necessitate spare batteries, but I thought this would be the case when I first settled on the bike. The batteries fully re-charge in about 90mins by the way, but you don’t get any LED display of how much charge is left so it pays to keep an eye on how many miles you have done.

 

So the bottom line is that I really love these bikes so far. They are light (at 17Kg including batteries – most manufacturers I discover quote weights without batteries). They look and feel like a normal bike, which matters to me. Most other cyclists probably won’t even realise that you have motor assistance! My ride averaged 12.3 mph on hilly terrain. Maximum speed was 25.3 mph and I could happily maintain 17-18 mph on the flat – a speed at which the motor does no work, so I guess I could leave it on all the time.

 

I will post further impressions when I’ve had another outing, but I know that I have the first two bikes that Mark has sold so, if you have any specific questions, I will try to answer them.

 

Happy cycling,

 

Chris

Edited June 2, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

Glad to see you enjoying your new bikes,they must be one of the lightest full size electric bikes available(i know somebody will probably quote one lighter but with a ridiculous price tag),anyway i hope you enjoy many trouble free miles and prove the doubters wrong,if i had the spare cash available i would have bought one too,probably the best looking electric bike at prestigne i was impressed.

Trek 2nd ride

 

Today is the day when British Cycling run Regional Road Race Championships up and down the Country. So I was up at 7am, packing a 7.5 kilo Trek Madone inside the car (for my son) and a 17kilo Trek CyTronex on the roof for myself.

 

Jack was riding the senior race that got away at 9.30 so I put the front wheel back in my CyTronix and started riding round the circuit in the opposite direction to the race. The circuit was 12.2 miles long and what proper cyclists call "rolling" - I call it bloody hilly! I completed the first circuit in about 45 mins, using the motor on hills only and at a mix of poiwer settings. Knowing that I wouldn't manage more than one more, I then decided to switch the motor on full and see how far I got. The answer is 17 miles so, once again, 20miles seems plausible with more sensible riding. Just as the motor cut out Jack shouted at me that he needed a bottle passing up... I had to get 7 miles back to the car without assistance.

 

Thus far, I had been going round in the big ring (48 Teeth) and probably hadn't been in a bigger sprocket than 21. In fact, I had convinced myself that the two smaller chainrings were surplus to requirements: they are not- the're for getting you home when the battery runs dry.

 

Anyway, I fed Jack and a team-mate of his brother who was also riding this race and repaired to the pub for a restorative pint (avid readers might detect a recurring theme here). Jack did 92 miles at an average speed of about 23 mph, I did 25 at an average speed at 14.1mph (28.2 max, downhill with a tail wind) untill the battery died - so good legs still win. It was great fun - I think I could get back into this cycling lark.

 

Chris

Edited June 1, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

Just the sort of things I want to hear Chris as I've ordered one too:)

Any chance of some photos? I've only seen the right side view and am interested to see how the electrics are all integrated.

Just the sort of things I want to hear Chris as I've ordered one too:)

Any chance of some photos? I've only seen the right side view and am interested to see how the electrics are all integrated.

 

I won't get a chance to take any photos before next weekend Andy as I am away most of the week. I know Mark reads this forum, so perhaps he will post some.

 

I can, however, describe how it is done..... The motor, as you know, is in the front hub. This connects (though a very high quality connector - all the wiring is of a very high standard) to a wiring loom that is lost in a moulded plastic channel that runs underneath the down tube. At the bottom of this tube is the controller fixed underneath the bottom bracket. All is very well sealed with silicone. In fact the whole set-up appears to be gratifyingly over-engneered. The controller has a a 15A cutout, but the wiring is designed to 30 A (I am assured).

 

The basic equipment on the Trek is Bontrager/Shimano - the latter is of Deore standard. The CyTronex add-ons are very well engineered. In fact, none of my friends today actually spotted it was electric until told!

 

Chris

I too have ordered one, (I posted on Chris's first thread last night). Can't wait to get it!

 

Great posts Chris.

 

Regards,

Mike

Jack did 92 miles at an average speed of about 23 mph,

 

Chris

 

Jack be nimble Jack be quick....... and I be bloody knackered at the thought of that distance:D

 

Really glad your enjoying the Bike Chris and it really comes across in your posts just how much.

 

Look forward to the next installment.

Racing

 

I read your posts with great interest Chris, I'm delighted you are enjoying the experience so much.

 

Your son is obviously a very fit and talented cyclist! If you dropped the front wheel out of your Cytronex and replaced it with the same motor but in the highest speed rating and put him around the same course, I would doubt if his speed would ever fall much below 23mph, so his average should be significantly higher. However that would of course be horribly illegal and I could in now way condone it! Also since Jack would be capable of sustaining a speed at the highest efficiency of the motor, he would also get a higher range.

 

I had never been in a cycle race before Presteigne and I couldn't believe how much fun it was. The narrow bit in the centre of the figure of 8 course where you get held up by slower moving bikes was particularly exciting, leaning to over take with my hand on the bar end poised to press the button, getting a surge of power, shooting past within inches of the spectators - it doesn't get much better than that!

 

I attach a photo from the Presteigne site.

I too have ordered one, (I posted on Chris's first thread last night). Can't wait to get it!

 

Great posts Chris.

 

Regards,

Mike

 

I got your post Mike and sent you a message - hope you got it.

 

C

Aha, didn't see it. Thanks Chris.

 

Mike

Ah Chris, now I see it. When I compare the photo mark sent with the Trek site I can see the additional tube under the downtube. That is neat. Thanks for the informative description.

 

Andy

calling fishingpaul

 

Dodged the showers to the Coach and Horses but now it really has started to rain. I suspect I'm going the hard way up Forehill in a downpour!

Chris

In praise of Busch and Muller lights - I must get a waterproof

 

I wasn't going to go out on the bike tonight, just make a few tweaks to equipment but, as you may gather from the previous post, I did.

 

The tweaks were to the saddle and pedles. There is nothing wrong with the Bontrager saddle on this bike apart from the fact is doesn't suit my backside. It looks like it should. but I couldn't get used to it. So off it came to be replaced by my old and trusty Brooks B17 Pro (pre-softened) from the tandem hanging up in the bike room. I also like old fashioned toe-clips (much to the amusement of my modern cycling friends) so I attached a pair of old Deore pedals + clips that were hanging around in the same place.

 

The weather had been dry,but it started to rain just as I was about to set off. I waited till it had almost stopped and went. The route was as on day one but sort of in reverse. I hadn't intended to stop at both pubs, but it seeemed to rain particularly hard as I approached them so I felt obliged to take shelter!

 

The real point of reversing the route was to go up Forehill. This is one of the toughest climbs in this area and is regularly used by local cycling clubs for Autumn hill climbs (a particular form of torture that any club cyclist will explain). I set off using maximum power on the hills, but soon settled into a rhythm of leaving the motor on the slowest speed all the time. This is probably quite an economical way to use the bike since you are likely to be pedalling at more than 12.5 mph on the flat and downhill, leaving the motor to help on uphill drags only.

 

Forehill is about a mile long. about 1 in 8 for much of it, but steepening to 1 in 5 in a couple of places. I went up it at a fairly constant 8 - 9 mph for most of the climb, falling back to 6 mph on the hardest bits. As usual, this was all in the big chainring.

 

By the time the rain had eased off and I left the second pub it was quite dark. That B & M front light is amazing - I would not have believed that an LED could generate as much light. I was brighter than the big battery jobs of my youth.

 

So that's it. I'm home and, of course, cleaned the bike before writing this. As an ex-roadie I have never really liked mudguards, but I can now see their positive points! I rode 15 miles tonight but there was no sign of the battery giving up.

 

Chris

Edited June 2, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

I never liked mudguards in my youth,always removing them when fitted,i now have proper full mudguards and would not be without them.

All work and no play.....

 

I'm stuck in London working till the end of the week, with no opportunity to play with my new toy. So what about the rest of you? I know at least two Forum members have bought the bike and Mark now has approaching 20 orders. Any of you got the bikes yet? Do share your experiences.

Chris

Bikes

 

Afraid you are all on your own at the moment Chris due to holidays (not mine). We are shipping the next one Friday and then hopefully about ten next week.

Mark

Hills revisited

 

After my last ride report Mark emailed me, surprised that I only managed to maintain 8-9 mph on a 1 in 8 hill. He suggested that I was being far too macho sticking to the big chainring and he urged me to use the gears to their full advantage. Well, I've just tried and Mark was right!

 

First of all, some facts about Forhill. My "full" version of the hill is 1 mile long. It is marked as 15% (1 in 7) but probably rises to 1 in 4 or 5 at it's steepest. I followed Marks advice and went through the gears in both the large and middle ring to keep my cadence up. I covered most of the hill at 9 - 11mph, dropping just a fraction below 8 on the last 1 in 4 bit. All this was with the motor on the low power setting. An excellent result, I think. I am now having a self-congratulatory pint!

 

Chris

Edited June 7, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

Still happy

 

So to post the full stats for that last ride...... I kept the motor on the lowest power setting all the time. I am becoming convinced this is the most sensible way to ride the Trek. On the flat or downhill, I am always doing more that 12.5 mph so the motor does no work. Uphill it cuts in at anything below about 12 mph and helps to keep me up towards 12.5. The total ride was 20.2 miles and the battery was working fine at the end. This was a battery that I last charged at the start of the week, but it hadn't been used since. I suspect that a freshly charged (and warm) battery provides more torque at the start of a ride (though torque is pretty awesome anyway) but it may not, therefore, last as long. Average speed was 13.2 mph over hilly terrain once again. My top speed was 35.9 (for Fishing Paul's benefit, that was going down Weatheroak Hill).

 

I've now had this bike for a week and covered nearly 100 miles all told. When I've done a few more, I will put a considered review up in the review thread.

 

Chris

Thanks for posting your first impressions Chris, it has made interesting reading . I'm glad you are enjoying riding it so much and its overall design ('normal bike' feel; low weight & energy capacity; above medium power & motor gearing; simple power control) certainly seems to perform well-suited to your riding style & ability and the range, flat speed and hill-climbing performance you've achieved with the cytronex indicate that you are still a strong rider (by 'normal' standards! - I think you've been either rather too modest, or simply underestimated the level you have retained ) and as such that would measurably increase range & gradients attainable, so (and I sincerely hope no-one, especially you, minds me saying this, just being realistic) I think it must be said that rather less powerful riders should realistically expect to manage rather lesser gradients, and possibly lesser power-assisted ranges too depending on hilliness of terrain draining more energy aswell as lower rider input level .

 

Its great that though you've got yourself a bike which appears so well-matched to your requirements and I wish you and everyone else who finds the same many happy miles of electric cycling

 

Best Regards,

 

Stuart.

Edited June 7, 200817 yr by coops

Gosh, at 14.5 stone, having scarcely ridden a bike for 5 years and only emerged from radiotherapy 6 months ago, I wish I could believe I was fit - but it's really nice of you to say so Stuart! C

Yes, and climbing a 15% hill with 20-25% sections is all the more creditable given the extra 2 stone you said you're carrying!

 

I just don't want others, who think they might be equally 'unfit', to be disappointed if they didn't get similar performance and I think they'd be miscalculating if they think they would: its very complicated to assess how the same bike will perform with different rider inputs and so exact figures are rather 'pie in the sky' but I wouldn't expect an average strength rider to manage those gradients, speeds or ranges on a bike with those specs.

 

I'd estimate (based on all the figures) about 10% to be an approximate gradient limit for gentle pedalling on the cytronex and up to around 12% for moderately strong input, and thats for a rider of 13 stone or 83kg.

 

And its already been alluded in the other thread that you might get 20 miles range (at 15mph) with moderate pedalling & in ideal conditions, but with gradients or winds that would take rather stronger pedalling .

 

Stuart.

Edited June 8, 200817 yr by coops

Chris

Have you thought about fitting a prop stand and a battery lock?

I know Mark was looking into fitting a battery lock which I think is fairly essential.

 

As for the fitness thing, although a decade or so younger than you, I hit the scales this morning at 103Kg:eek: Four years ago, I got myself down from 111Kg to 82Kg, the ideal weight for my body mass index. Personally, I think my ideal weight is 90Kg due to my fairly large frame and that is what I am aiming to acheive by sensible eating, which is all I did to get down to 82Kg, and to be honest was not that difficult, just requiring self disipline:o

 

I have a sedentry occupation and am a mild asthmatic so I want to cycle to improve my cardio vascular system and this seems to be working, no wheezing and less reliance on medication.

 

I'm hoping the Cytronex, being more like a normal bike will force me to ride it more like a normal bike, with just enough assistance when I really need it.

The Agattu is great and I love it, but almost too easy with all the assistance I need, but, in my opinion too heavy to pedal unassisted.

With bikes like the Torq and Wisper, I found it all too easy just to open the throttle and wizz around which although great fun, is not really cycling and does very little to improve fitness.

However, it was bikes like that which got me back on 2 wheels after a gap of 20 years.

 

Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble and a bit off thread:confused:

 

J:) hn

I think you have got it absolutely spot on John. I have loved cycling and bikes all my life and I certainly don't want to ride a bike like a moped. So I expect to pedal on a hill. But yesterday's ride involved pedaling on the hills (and they are proper hills) not much harder than I did on the flat without the motor. Many people underestimate the importance of the weight of the bike (and especially rolling weight) to climbing ability, and that is certainly one area where the Trek scores. (Though I can see lots of areas where I could reduce weight further!). As to range, if you let the motor pull you along all the time you will certainly get less than 20 miles per charge. But, as I wrote in the other thread, what's the point of that?

 

My wife wants a prop stand so I am on the lookout for one. I think Mark intends to start manufacturing batteries with loops to take a D lock as you lock the bike up. I always just take the battery with me when I lock the bike.

 

I'm at at town centre race in Brentford this morning with my son - sadly no opportunity to ride the Trek, though I hope to get back to it this evening.

 

Chris

Edited June 8, 200817 yr by Chris_Bike

I certainly don't want to ride a bike like a moped. So I expect to pedal on a hill. But yesterday's ride involved pedaling on the hills (and they are proper hills) not much harder than I did on the flat without the motor.

 

They are all pedal-assist bikes so pedalling is always expected and especially so on hills. Your relatively small variation in power level between flats & hills is usual for power-assist riding on suitable terrain, and if your power level on the flat is high then clearly even a small increase for hills would give strong hill-climbing ability.

 

Many people underestimate the importance of the weight of the bike (and especially rolling weight) to climbing ability, and that is certainly one area where the Trek scores. (Though I can see lots of areas where I could reduce weight further!). As to range, if you let the motor pull you along all the time you will certainly get less than 20 miles per charge. But, as I wrote in the other thread, what's the point of that?

 

A bike weight difference of a few kg makes little difference to climbing ability, even on a non-motorised bike and as has been said some will get significantly less than the 20 miles 'average' range even with moderate pedalling with the motor and not being just pulled along by the motor.

 

Stuart.

Edited June 8, 200817 yr by coops

As for the fitness thing, although a decade or so younger than you, I hit the scales this morning at 103Kg Four years ago, I got myself down from 111Kg to 82Kg, the ideal weight for my body mass index.

I have taken exception with my doctor over this (a bit)

I claim your bmi increases with age due to the way it is calculated..At 18 I was 6..5" at 70 I am 5.10" (nearly),this is due to compression of the inter leave disks in my spine (all 32 of them,this is usual with ageing nothing to do with increased roast potato, and beer (honest)