Total newbie looking to buy an eBike, want some advice on a model!

[Karliah]

Hi all,

I am looking to buy an eBike, I have an offer of a Shengmilo MX05 for £750 Brand new in box, I'm not sure if I should take it or not or look elsewhere, my budget is definitely around that price point.

Some additional information:

I have a normal bike already that I love, so I am totally open to getting a conversion kit although it is more hassle, I do have the capacity to build my own lithium ion 18650 battery with the help of a qualified electrician, if it will save me a significant sum of money.

- The shengmilo has a really long range, My health is quite bad so I would want the comfort of knowing I can get back without pedaling much of that makes sense.

One person has told me that the MX05 is not road legal, looking for some advice on this as it says it conforms to UK law, can be limited to 15mph etc, looking for some advice on that.

If you need any more info please let me know, as I said I know nothing about this sector, so all advice is welcome

 

[StuartsProjects]

I'm not trying to be sneaky, I'm just trying to be realistic about my use case.

Maybe, but your use case seems simple enough, you have suggested that at some point the bike will be used on the road, so it needs to be road legal.

It might be an idea to email Shengimlo and ask them to explain why they apparently believe that eBike to be legal to ride on the road. Maybe they know something this forum does not.

 

[StuartsProjects]

It appears that even though the max output is limited to 250w, the fact that the motor is 500w means it doesn't qualify?

No it does not qualify.

If you really do want to buy a road legal eBike, there are plenty about.

 

[Karliah]

Maybe, but your use case seems simple enough, you have suggested that at some point the bike will be used on the road, so it needs to be road legal.

It might be an idea to email Shengimlo and ask them to explain why they apparently believe that eBike to be legal to ride on the road. Maybe they know something this forum does not.

I have just emailed them to ask the relevant information, will update when they respond. I'm assuming you are correct though and it does not qualify, but we will see what they say.

 

[Nealh]

If it complies to EN15194 the motor rating will be marked as 250w on the motor.

 

[StuartsProjects]

I have just emailed them to ask the relevant information, will update when they respond. I'm assuming you are correct though and it does not qualify, but we will see what they say.

Their response will be interesting.

Be careful with some of the responses you see on this topic. There are regular posters who might suggest illegal\dangerous stuff is OK if your not caught.

 

[Karliah]

Their response will be interesting.

Be careful with some of the responses you see on this topic. There are regular posters who might suggest illegal\dangerous stuff is OK if your not caught.

I think there is a clear line that shouldn't be crossed, I'm not entirely sure where that line is, but as you say a pedal bike on a pavement is illegal, yet I have been doing that for 15 years, and so have hundreds of thousands of others and it's never enforced, it's seen as acceptable and I've never known the police pull anyone up over it.

Because I'm new here I don't know if the same applies to ebikes, because you can just say yes it's illegal on a pavement (but so is a pedal bike and that's never enforced).

 

[soundwave]

id say the limit speed wise is below 50mph and you wont have any problems as long as it has peddles.

the only ppl that has been pulled over buy plod is on those stupid heavy electric mopeds with peddles riding it on the cycle path.

and then the batts die as cheap crap from china and then they trhow them in the bin and this happens.

https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/politics/council/battery-warning-after-spate-of-bin-lorry-fires-in-peterborough-with-repairs-to-one-truck-costing-ps15000-3998663

 

[flecc]

as you say a pedal bike on a pavement is illegal, yet I have been doing that for 15 years, and so have hundreds of thousands of others and it's never enforced, it's seen as acceptable and I've never known the police pull anyone up over it.

The reason it isn't enforced is that Cyclists can ride on the pavement in some circumstances, details quoted below. Read right through to the end, showing this still applies:

"On 1st August 1999, new legislation came into force to allow a fixed penalty notice to be served on anyone who is guilty of cycling on a footway. However the Home Office issued guidance on how the new legislation should be applied, indicating that they should only be used where a cyclist is riding in a manner that may endanger others. The then Home Office Minister Paul Boateng issued a letter stating that:

“The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required.”

Almost identical advice has since been issued by the Home Office with regards the use of fixed penalty notices by ‘Community Support Officers’ and wardens.

“CSOs and accredited persons will be accountable in the same way as police officers. They will be under the direction and control of the chief officer, supervised on a daily basis by the local community beat officer and will be subject to the same police complaints system. The Government have included provision in the Anti Social Behaviour Bill to enable CSOs and accredited persons to stop those cycling irresponsibly on the pavement in order to issue a fixed penalty notice.

I should stress that the issue is about inconsiderate cycling on the pavements. The new provisions are not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other road users when doing so. Chief officers recognise that the fixed penalty needs to be used with a considerable degree of discretion and it cannot be issued to anyone under the age of 16. (Letter to Mr H. Peel from John Crozier of The Home Office, reference T5080/4, 23 February 2004)

In a January 2014 letter to Donnachadh McCarthy of the pressure group Stop Killing Cyclists, roads minister Robert Goodwill said Boeteng’s advice was still valid.

Goodwill said: “Thank you for bringing the issue of cycling on the pavement around dangerous junctions…to my attention. I agree that the police should be using discretion in enforcing this law and would support Paul Boateng’s original guidance.”

The Association of Chief Police Officers then circulated this reiteration of the 1999 advice to all local police forces. ACPO’s National Policing Lead for Cycling Assistant Chief Constable Mark Milsom said: “We welcome the re-issued guidance from the Minister for Cycling in respect of cycling on the pavement and have re-circulated this to all local forces.”
.

 

[StuartsProjects]

I think there is a clear line that shouldn't be crossed, I'm not entirely sure where that line is, but as you say a pedal bike on a pavement is illegal

Indeed.

Its been explained to you that an eBike with a 500W motor is a vehicle not a cycle.

You do know where the line is, for eBikes only use one with an 250W (or less) motor.

Simple.

 

[Karliah]

Indeed.



Its been explained to you that an eBike with a 500W motor is a vehicle not a cycle.

You are phrasing your answers in such a condescending way. Let me put it another way, a bit clearer shall we.

Are pedal bikes on pavements illegal? Yes

Do people still do it? Yes.

Is it enforced? No.

Does this apply to ebikes aswell?

That was the question, I don't need a lecture on the law, i'm looking for an answer using everyday experience, not legislation.gov.uk - there are many things that are illegal, such as shaking a rug in public after 8am, under the metropolitan police act 1839 - I know its illegal to do that, but is it a real issue? Clearly not. Looking for a bit of common sense from people in the know.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Does this apply to ebikes aswell?

Yes

The question asked in the first post was;

One person has told me that the MX05 is not road legal, looking for some advice on this as it says it conforms to UK law, can be limited to 15mph etc, looking for some advice on that.
If you need any more info please let me know, as I said I know nothing about this sector, so all advice is welcome

So answers have been inline with that question.

"so all advice is welcome"

 

[soundwave]

if it is not in the public interest the cps wont take it any further law or not its not up to the police.

the law says i cant smoke weed drink cider and ride my ebike with a dongle same as Halfords dumping scooters to the kids or let them use the hire ones in there mum dads name then you got the just eat riders with 1000w hub drive bikes flying about every where cant even get a brake round the country lanes as the ram rovers use it as a 60mph race track about 2 months ago a Peugeot 305 went barrel rolling round one of the corners in to the field and guy did a runner the wrong way as nothing but fields for miles and some one went a bit to fast over the canal bridge and wiped out another hedge and the horses **** all over the roads as well, why cant i $hit in the road

and if some one does run you over round here.

Man run over and stabbed in Gloucester

A man who was stabbed and run over in Gloucester is taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[flecc]

Does this apply to ebikes aswell?

Sorry, but you do need a lecture in the law. There is no such thing as an e-bike.

There are 250 watt pedelecs restricted to maximum 15.5 mph assistance, known in regulations as EAPCs, (Electric Assist Pedal Cycles). In roads law they are still classed as bicycles, so the riding on pavements limited permission applies to them as well.

Anything over those is a form of electric motorcycle requiring type approval, registration, 3rd party insurance, a suitable driving licence and use only on roads.
.

 

[Chainmale]

It seems to me that the OP knows that what he wishes to do is not legal but is expecting members of this forum to give him some sort of "approval" to justify his intentions

 

[Karliah]

It seems to me that the OP knows that what he wishes to do is not legal but is expecting members of this forum to give him some sort of "approval" to justify his intentions

No, not true at all, as flecc described above, using a pedal cycle on the pavement is technically illegal, however guidance has been issued to make sure the police use their discretion and basically not give out a FPN unless you are being dangerous on a footpath, if EAPCs are under this same guidance, then its very unlikely you will get in any trouble while still illegal, as the guidance goes against issuing the FPN.

That's what I was trying to understand, I'm not querying the 500w legal or not, this was just a tangent I wanted to get some common sense input on, not justify breaking the law - hundreds of thousands techically break the law by cycling to work on a footpath every year, but its not viewed as an issue, that's what I was getting at.

The original discussion was about if the 500w was legal if limited to 250w and it appears not as stated by several people, which is disappointing as it will rule out the bike I wanted, unless the manufacturer comes back with some groundbreaking new info which I highly doubt will be the case.

 

[soundwave]

my bosch bike is a road legal bike with all the labels but the motor is more powerful than 250w more like 800-900w or how do i get to 40 mph.

the limit means 250w at 15 mph under this speed the motor could be 10000w but it must not assist past 250w at 15mph

250w aint going to get me up any hill is it but as the bosch controllers are totally locked i cant change anything bar use a rip off dongle to remove the 15mph speed limit.

my m8s bafang hd with a 30a controller can drop me 60-70 meters with a throttle as i only have a 20a controller.

and he has been using that the get to work and back for over 2 years now.

 

[Karliah]

my bosch bike is a road legal bike with all the labels but the motor is more powerful than 250w more like 800-900w or how do i get to 40 mph.

the limit means 250w at 15 mph under this speed the motor could be 10000w but it must not assist past 250w at 15mph

250w aint going to get me up any hill is it but as the bosch controllers are totally locked i cant change anything bar use a rip off dongle to remove the 15mph speed limit.

my m8s bafang hd with a 30a controller can drop me 60-70 meters with a throttle as i only have a 20a controller.

and he has been using that the get to work and back for over 2 years now.

To quote @StuartsProjects who has told me several times the opposite:

"
Indeed.

Its been explained to you that an eBike with a 500W motor is a vehicle not a cycle.

You do know where the line is, for eBikes only use one with an 250W (or less) motor.

Simple. "

I originally asked if a 500w limited to 250w was legal and he said no.

Unless what you are saying is that the motor is not legal but the sticker says it is?

 

[soundwave]

this is my dongle it slides over the speed sensor on the back wheel it is a electromagnet that thinks when im going 30mph the display says 15mph so with that dongle my bike has not been road legal for ten years now.

but i can remove this some are wired in to the motors so have to remove bits to get to them but i have not seen any bikes like this costing 5k plus that plod around at 15mph.

even the giant dealer in Gloucester runs a dongle and said years ago he would never sell ebikes in 2014 yet now thats all they sell.

just buy what you want and dont be a twat on it esp over 50mph going the wrong way down the motor way.

Just Eat responds after cyclist in orange stopped by police on M5

Company can't verify rider works for them and won't comment as company's code of conduct policy detailed

www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk

 

[soundwave]

not bad for a 10 year old is it get that 500w bike and race me you will loose

 

[Karliah]

its not road legal but not much on the roads theses days ebike wise is not road legal anyway inc my bosch bike with a dongle i have had for 10 years now.

750 is a ok price but a bosch 500w batt is £633

Can I just go back to this - What did you mean by the bosch 500w batt is £633?

Is this a conversion kit somewhere, I've had a look and cannot find it?

Obviously the £750 is for everything, including the bike!