Torq li-ion batttery

[imellor]

I have read elsewhere in the forum that the new Torq li-ion battery have a lower cut off voltage.
Has anyone worked out what components have been changed to achieve this?

Ian

(Sounds like a challenge for Flecc to me!!!!)

 

[flecc]

I haven't seen one of these batteries Ian, and I only saw this mentioned by 50cycles in connection with the Torq, saying that it now supplied with the changed battery. Hopefully it won't only be that bike.

So I've no idea what's different, components or just extra fingers crossed.
.

 

[Tiberius]

Do you mean cut off voltage or cut out voltage? The cut out voltage would be a function of the controller. I assume that bikes would use the same controller regardless of the battery type.

That said, I have seen discussions on here of the merits of Li Ion vs NiMH. I have a second hand Torq with Li Ion and on my first long run it did the 17 mile journey ok, but with me pedalling and it was cutting out at the very end. I don't know if this is what I should expect or whether I should be investing in a new battery.

Nick

PS. Since then, though, the heavens have been telling me that an electric boat would have been a better buy.

 

[imellor]

Do you mean cut off voltage or cut out voltage? The cut out voltage would be a function of the controller. I assume that bikes would use the same controller regardless of the battery type.

That said, I have seen discussions on here of the merits of Li Ion vs NiMH. I have a second hand Torq with Li Ion and on my first long run it did the 17 mile journey ok, but with me pedalling and it was cutting out at the very end. I don't know if this is what I should expect or whether I should be investing in a new battery.

Nick

PS. Since then, though, the heavens have been telling me that an electric boat would have been a better buy.

Apparently the cut-off voltage has been dropped in the battery. So using your terminology, it will be the cut off voltage. Having said that, my bike often, ends up with one or other cutting in on some part of my journey these days.

 

[Ian]

Quote from the Ezee principal and designer Wai Won Ching

"As part of my investigative report about my own bikes, it is still quite beyond my comprehension why there are cases of people having power cut-off on climbing or other instances aside from the possibility that their battery is already low."

So it's official, Lithium batteries don't suffer from cutouts.

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

Lithium Cut out

Do you mean cut off voltage or cut out voltage? The cut out voltage would be a function of the controller. I assume that bikes would use the same controller regardless of the battery type.

That said, I have seen discussions on here of the merits of Li Ion vs NiMH. I have a second hand Torq with Li Ion and on my first long run it did the 17 mile journey ok, but with me pedalling and it was cutting out at the very end. I don't know if this is what I should expect or whether I should be investing in a new battery.


Nick

PS. Since then, though, the heavens have been telling me that an electric boat would have been a better buy.

Yes you are by and large right about mileage. Current ambient temperatures will have some effect. Lithium batteries lose some of their 'oomph' over time and if yours was used there may be some decline in capacity thereby reaching the cut-out point after fewer miles. You do not say whether you are travelling at 22mph (derestricted) or at 15 mph restricted. If it is derestricted I would not be at all surprised. There are some continuous switchback hills around Wincanton which I regard as 'Hilly Terrain'.
Here is a response from Wai Won Ching of eZee Cycles and you can see from what he says......................................... Of course after you have travelled a few miles you battery is becoming 'already low'.

Quote from the Ezee principal and designer Wai Won Ching:
"As part of my investigative report about my own bikes, it is still quite beyond my comprehension why there are cases of people having power cut-off on climbing or other instances aside from the possibility that their battery is already low."
So it's official, Lithium batteries don't suffer from cutouts.*

UNLESS YOUR BATTERY IS ALREADY LOW
P.
PS Your boat will travel at knots - which are fewer that miles per hour.

 

[flecc]

Quote from the Ezee principal and designer Wai Won Ching

"As part of my investigative report about my own bikes, it is still quite beyond my comprehension why there are cases of people having power cut-off on climbing or other instances aside from the possibility that their battery is already low."

So it's official, Lithium batteries don't suffer from cutouts.

Wai Won Ching is also on record as saying that the Chinese cannot understand the obsession with climbing hills that Europeans have. Apparently the Chinese don't cycle up hills, and I must say I have seen numerous photos of bikes being pushed in China, particularly if loaded with luggage etc.

If they don't cycle up hills, they won't suffer cut-outs of course.
.

 

[Tiberius]

You do not say whether you are travelling at 22mph (derestricted) or at 15 mph restricted. ...

So it's official, Lithium batteries don't suffer from cutouts.*

Hi Pete,

It took me 35 mins each way, which works out at 14.5 mph average. I was changing between all motor, all me and a combination as I went along to try it out. Peak speed was only just over 20.

The battery was fully charged before I set off. I was getting amber and red LEDS while running early on in the journey but no resets required until the hill at the very end.

I tried a rough calculation of the energy I should have used from the battery and it is broadly consistent with the nominal 375 Whr capacity. I need to do a better calculation, but it does look as if I have to pedal harder, have two batteries, or recharge at the far end.

Nick

 

[coops]

Hi Nick, range is often rather less for ebikes in hilly areas, and especially at derestricted speeds, as you'd expect: with more trips on different terrain and/or accurate calculation you'll probably find out whether your battery is behaving 'normally' or not, for its age & prior use.

Whether your return journey can be done on one charge depends rather on how hilly it is, and your speed - especially on the gradients, but either way its probably not wise to try it on a Li to avoid deep discharge, also there will always be weather conditions which may prevent comfortable completion of both legs on one charge, so its probably as you say, or 1 NiMH, slower speed and regularly plenty of legpower .

Stuart.

 

[Tiberius]

Is the NiMH really better than the Li Ion for this purpose? The rated capacities are similar. Maybe I need to do a proper measurement on the energy used. I could set up a battery test in my lab, or I could do a measurement of the power as its actually used on the bike. But before I set about that, is there a standard way people do this, or a ready made instrument?

Nick

 

[flecc]

Try this Tiberius.
.

 

[coops]

Is the NiMH really better than the Li Ion for this purpose?

I mentioned NiMH only to suggest it would be more appropriate than Li if you should want to attempt the 34mile round trip on one charge, since that would deep discharge the Li (and likely shorten its life if done often) whereas the NiMH requires to be fully discharged often to keep in good condition . The NiMH would appear to be slightly less capacity than the Li though, but not much.

I think in time & with more use & experimenting with throttle/pedal power ratio, you'll be able to tell intuitively how to vary your speed & throttle to roughly achieve a given range, so long as the terrain hilliness is familiar to you . Even a NiMH fully discharged can get you anywhere between 10miles (or less!) and 40-50miles, depending on terrain, throttle use, speed and pedal assist ratio.

Most useful to know, on a Torq, is that range at 20mph is roughly half that at 15mph, for the same level of pedal input, and that I think slowing slightly for hills/gradients if you're exceeding 15mph or so (also pedalling harder up them if you can/want) may also extend ones range .

Stuart.