Tongsheng TSDZ2. Your experiences.

I know that this unit had very mixed reviews when it first came out, but I would like to hear what owners feelings are now. Were all the early units 250w? Is the 350w model different? I seem to remember reading that the chain line is not good, but is it any worse than a BBS with standard chainring? & can it be improved. Are the current units better in any way than early ones?

 

Thanks in advance. Steve.

No experience on my part as I have been considering one for a little while and combining with an Afine 8 on a hybrid.

The 250 & 350w I assume has different windings/rpm ?

I noticed PSWPower sell spares/parts and the controller listed for it is the same whether 250 or 350w so they must be amped the same at about 14/15a.

Reading on ES they have a max 90rpm at the chain wheel so bike gearing needs to be set up to take this in to account if 20-25mph is to be achieved.

The 48v 500w is 18a for newer models and was 15 for older ones.

Edited August 30, 20178 yr by Nealh

Only two things to watch out for. Although they say it fits 80% etc and it's easy, this assumes the welding of the bottom bracket is true and it isn't always. If you're able to fit this kit then applying normal engineering principles shouldn't be a problem. The second thing to look out for is the blue plastic gear on a lay shaft. Some have ripped a tooth off. All these motors, Bfang etc, have a plastic gear. The Chinese, in my view, have made a rod for their own back by replacing them foc without exploring why; to preserve their reputation? One individual broke his by, if it were a car, revving it up to full speed and dropping the clutch; something will break. The Chinese will eventually twig to this and read these forums for clues as to how their product is being abused. To avoid any of this, just take care moving off in a high gear with power. Don't do it.

 

ES is an odd place; I would say 90% are only interested in connecting a muti kw power pack at 48v and doing interminable write ups of how they did it. A bike at over 20mph is not funny and one at 40 is just dangerous especially with an obese person on it.

 

I've done over 600 miles on mine in 2 months and really enjoy it. It's a 36v 350w. The range I get out of the battery is phenomenal.

 

Knowing what I know now I wouldn't buy the thumb throttle version (I've only used it 3 times) because you would then require the version with brake sensors to switch the power off if the throttle got stuck which can easily happen. Whether you buy a VLDC5 display or the other is personal preference. The throttle requires the former which has a USB plug which is useful for powering a headlight.

 

My son, who is a marathon runner, can peddle it up to 30mph quite easily. Normal people will find the standard 42t chain ring a bit small. Again, knowing what I know now, I'd have bought the dual chainring with 52/42t and not have removed the derailleur (to fit the brake sensors etc - I'm aware that you might be able to fit a sensor kit onto the existing brakes but the changer cable was the other problem as it went underneath the bottom bracket which you can not do with these motors)

 

The motors are priced in $ so not as bad as if euros.

 

I've no hesitation in recommending them.

I know that this unit had very mixed reviews when it first came out, but I would like to hear what owners feelings are now. Were all the early units 250w? Is the 350w model different? I seem to remember reading that the chain line is not good, but is it any worse than a BBS with standard chainring? & can it be improved. Are the current units better in any way than early ones?

 

Thanks in advance. Steve.

 

I'm still trying to ascertain whether TSDZ2 was the problem or whether it was the 'cheap' battery I bought. I made a thread about it just now.

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-do-i-work-this-one-out-battery-motor-issues.28936/

 

What I will say is when it worked it was awesome. Build wise, I got a perfect chain line with my Nexus 8 speed hub at the back. TSDZ2 takes normal chain rings, while I'm told Bafang BBS01/02 etc. need an adaptor.

I finally got around to investigating my problems with my TSDZ2 build and it did turn out that it was entirely the fault of the battery. When I opened it up, I found one of the metal strips connecting one 'block' of cells to another had become unsoldered and was making intermittent contact, also one of the main wires inside had rubbed against the case and worn through the insulation so bare wires were contacting the case. I think the battery was probably damaged like this through vibration of which there was a lot while riding with it on my trek Soho build.

 

After fixing the battery I decided a mountain bike was more appropriate for the roads around here so I took everything off the trek and now have it on a 2007 Specialized StumpJumper. Battery and motor now performing great.

 

I went out with a friend who has an expensive hiabike xduro nduro bike and we tried each others bikes and did a bit of offroading. It compared very favourable with the haibike. Maybe I'll do a more detailed review.

 

Anyhow this was mainly just to say that the TSDZ2 was blameless so don't get put off by my previous posts if you're thinking about one

I know that this unit had very mixed reviews when it first came out, but I would like to hear what owners feelings are now. Were all the early units 250w? Is the 350w model different? I seem to remember reading that the chain line is not good, but is it any worse than a BBS with standard chainring? & can it be improved. Are the current units better in any way than early ones?

 

Thanks in advance. Steve.

I am very pleased with my 250W version. I have only done 90 miles so far. I get 40 miles or so using the middle assist levels and 20-25 if I hammer it in the upper assist ranges, from a 10 Ah battery. I have upped the max speed a bit to 19 as I found it stopping at 15-16 was annoying. The only problems were:-

Having to change the gear cable to a fully enclosed one to clear the bottom bracket.

I could not fit the additional support bracket and the motor loosened off with time. Another poster gave the tip to score the inner surface of the spacer thus giving it more bite and this with some thread lock seems to have done the trick.

I am now finding that the gearing is a bit low.

I'm still trying to ascertain whether TSDZ2 was the problem or whether it was the 'cheap' battery I bought. I made a thread about it just now.

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-do-i-work-this-one-out-battery-motor-issues.28936/

 

What I will say is when it worked it was awesome. Build wise, I got a perfect chain line with my Nexus 8 speed hub at the back. TSDZ2 takes normal chain rings, while I'm told Bafang BBS01/02 etc. need an adaptor.

I was surprised that it will take a normal chain ring as PSW Power sell an adapter, but I checked the spacing and they are OK for a 110 BCD chain ring so thanks for the tip.

I was surprised that it will take a normal chain ring as PSW Power sell an adapter, but I checked the spacing and they are OK for a 110 BCD chain ring so thanks for the tip.

 

It definitely takes standard 110 BCD. Maybe they sell an adapter because you don't exactly get a great choice of 110 BCD ones. I really struggled to find a 110 BCD chainring which was bigger (more teeth) than the supplied one, good quality and had track/race teeth.

A few questions to TSDZ2 users. I'm thinking about using this motor on a dahon 20" wheel folding bike. It would have to be fitted with the motor unit rotated forward of the bottom bracket, not under it as per many of the diagrams.

there is a picture of a dahon bike with it fitted this way from one ebay seller

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4y8AAOSwTM5Y50mX/s-l500.jpg

 

does the motor still fit nicely without using the additional bracket/screw that the diagrams show bolting into the chain stay triangle (where kickstand often gets attached)? As this won't be an option if the motor is fitted rotated forward. Any pics of your builds would be very much appreciated.

 

how is the shifting, does the torque sensor back off the power when you shift? Having personal experience of riding a "crunchy gears" bafang bbs01 (without gear sensors) keen to avoid that feeling.

 

how quick does it respond to pedalling starting and stopping in terms of turning on/off the motor power ? (having again experienced a 1 second or more delay with the BBS01, which necessitates the e-brake cutoff levers for safe feeling on stop)

 

chainring. I'll need 52 or more for the 20" wheels of folder. what rings have people used?

A few questions to TSDZ2 users. I'm thinking about using this motor on a dahon 20" wheel folding bike. It would have to be fitted with the motor unit rotated forward of the bottom bracket, not under it as per many of the diagrams.

there is a picture of a dahon bike with it fitted this way from one ebay seller

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4y8AAOSwTM5Y50mX/s-l500.jpg

 

does the motor still fit nicely without using the additional bracket/screw that the diagrams show bolting into the chain stay triangle (where kickstand often gets attached)? As this won't be an option if the motor is fitted rotated forward. Any pics of your builds would be very much appreciated.

 

how is the shifting, does the torque sensor back off the power when you shift? Having personal experience of riding a "crunchy gears" bafang bbs01 (without gear sensors) keen to avoid that feeling.

 

how quick does it respond to pedalling starting and stopping in terms of turning on/off the motor power ? (having again experienced a 1 second or more delay with the BBS01, which necessitates the e-brake cutoff levers for safe feeling on stop)

 

chainring. I'll need 52 or more for the 20" wheels of folder. what rings have people used?

No idea about the mounting position but you can manage without the additional bracket. As mentioned earlier I found that the motor loosened with time and had to modify the spacer to give better grip.

Gear changing seems ok motor turns off quickly enough possibly have to be careful in the highest power mode and not hurry things. Motor seems to need some pedal movement less than a quarter turn but will not turn on with pure pressure.

No idea about the mounting position but you can manage without the additional bracket. As mentioned earlier I found that the motor loosened with time and had to modify the spacer to give better grip.

Gear changing seems ok motor turns off quickly enough possibly have to be careful in the highest power mode and not hurry things. Motor seems to need some pedal movement less than a quarter turn but will not turn on with pure pressure.

The fact that the motor needs some pedal movement bugs me and stops me from going ahead. I've tried kalkhoff, bosh, yamaha and bafang movement sensor systems and of it all I liked kalkhoff most, it felt most natural (almost bionic) and just the right natural powerful progressive assistance. But the snag there is the reliability issues with impulse 2 and 2.2.

douglasxk what battery are you using? and range

my 250w with 10ah I use sport mode most of the time 30 miles

13.4ah doesn't give any more range.

have just purchased 36v 17ah but have not ridden bike as yet.

I run my tdz at 16 amps you can alter this setting via lcd display.

Battery is of my own manufacture and is a 10S5P made from Samsung 25R cells which has an actual capacity of 12,000 mahr.

 

On average suburban and country routes (Oxford has no real 1st gear hills but lots of annoying hillocks) the 350 watt motor will comfortably do over 180 miles with either eco or off with an average of 10mph; with Eco set permanently I get 120 m at 10.5 mph average and using Tour set permanently 65 m at an average 12.5mph.

 

Tour gives about 20+ on the road and that’s almost a moped operation. Sport is pure moped! Good fun but speed is quite high and i’ve not tested at that speed for fear of breaking the blue gear starting the bike at junctions etc. Your 30m range on Sport doesn’t surprise me. I’d expect not to get a better average because of wind resistance. And then there’s Boost .....

 

Since then I have converted that battery to 48v and a 48v 750w motor and I can’t honestly say I get any better figures.

 

Recent cold weather has affected range.

Edited December 25, 20178 yr by DouglasXK

A few questions to TSDZ2 users. I'm thinking about using this motor on a dahon 20" wheel folding bike. It would have to be fitted with the motor unit rotated forward of the bottom bracket, not under it as per many of the diagrams.

there is a picture of a dahon bike with it fitted this way from one ebay seller

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4y8AAOSwTM5Y50mX/s-l500.jpg

 

does the motor still fit nicely without using the additional bracket/screw that the diagrams show bolting into the chain stay triangle (where kickstand often gets attached)? As this won't be an option if the motor is fitted rotated forward. Any pics of your builds would be very much appreciated.

 

how is the shifting, does the torque sensor back off the power when you shift? Having personal experience of riding a "crunchy gears" bafang bbs01 (without gear sensors) keen to avoid that feeling.

 

how quick does it respond to pedalling starting and stopping in terms of turning on/off the motor power ? (having again experienced a 1 second or more delay with the BBS01, which necessitates the e-brake cutoff levers for safe feeling on stop)

 

chainring. I'll need 52 or more for the 20" wheels of folder. what rings have people used?

A few questions to TSDZ2 users. I'm thinking about using this motor on a dahon 20" wheel folding bike. It would have to be fitted with the motor unit rotated forward of the bottom bracket, not under it as per many of the diagrams.

there is a picture of a dahon bike with it fitted this way from one ebay seller

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4y8AAOSwTM5Y50mX/s-l500.jpg

 

does the motor still fit nicely without using the additional bracket/screw that the diagrams show bolting into the chain stay triangle (where kickstand often gets attached)? As this won't be an option if the motor is fitted rotated forward. Any pics of your builds would be very much appreciated.

 

how is the shifting, does the torque sensor back off the power when you shift? Having personal experience of riding a "crunchy gears" bafang bbs01 (without gear sensors) keen to avoid that feeling.

 

how quick does it respond to pedalling starting and stopping in terms of turning on/off the motor power ? (having again experienced a 1 second or more delay with the BBS01, which necessitates the e-brake cutoff levers for safe feeling on stop)

 

chainring. I'll need 52 or more for the 20" wheels of folder. what rings have people used?

Hi Sandyman.Spa Cycles at Harrogate are a good source of large 110 chain rings. I couldn't get the chainstay anchor to fit on my Giant Revolt but fabricated an anchor to the 8mm hole near the non drive side of BB. I haven't ridden it yet but I found gear changes with the BBS02 which I had fitted previously, to be fine with a bit of practice.

Hi Sandyman.Spa Cycles at Harrogate are a good source of large 110 chain rings. I couldn't get the chainstay anchor to fit on my Giant Revolt but fabricated an anchor to the 8mm hole near the non drive side of BB. I haven't ridden it yet but I found gear changes with the BBS02 which I had fitted previously, to be fine with a bit of practice.

 

on the folder - the only way it'll fit is with the whole thing rotated so the motor sits in front of the BB not under it, so probably not going to be able to use the chainstay anchor. Keen to see any pics of peoples installs (just the motor bit) if anyone can oblige?

 

I'm just wondering if the shifting on this motor with it being torque sensing is significantly better than a BBS01/02 with cadence and no gear sensor (which I have ridden). As the backup option is buying a BBS01 with a gear sensor.

 

thanks for the lead on spa cycles, they have a 53t 110 outer so will talk to them . would you suggest getting a 110 over buying the 130bcd adapter

from PSW and using the 130bcd 53T that I already have with the bike?

do you end up with the ring and crank closer in to the bike that way or no different? I am keen to avoid a large distance out feeling like riding a horse with feet too far apart - for interest I measured my road bike pedal "q factor" versus the BBS01 bike that I have on loan the other day and it was quite a substantial difference, 100mm or so.

 

is everyone buying from PSWpower?

The fact that the motor needs some pedal movement bugs me and stops me from going ahead. I've tried kalkhoff, bosh, yamaha and bafang movement sensor systems and of it all I liked kalkhoff most, it felt most natural (almost bionic) and just the right natural powerful progressive assistance. But the snag there is the reliability issues with impulse 2 and 2.2.

 

I've had a bafang BBS01 on long term loan, and ridden bosch in shops. No comparison which felt better, but not a fair one either monetarily or in terms of how/where you can get it (needs to be on a new purpose made bike).

So I'm trying to decide bafang BBS01 (which I know is a bit clunky) or TSDZ2 (which I am hoping is better feel for similar money).

I bought the 350 watt version with thumb throttle and brakes from PSWPower at least 4 months ago and the display unit was faulty, have been trying to get a replacement from them ever since, they did send me one that was broken and with the wrong plug, they charged me postage for the faulty Display and i had to pay postage to send the original Display/LCD back so i told them in no uncertain terms that they would get no more money from me. I do think i will eventually get the replacement LCD after which i will be able to tell you what i think of it. I can tell you though that my opinion of PSWPower is not very favorable and they are one of the more reputable suppliers, so try to get one from an English source where they are legally obliged to honor a 12 month guarantee.

After a year of reading up on ebike kits I purchased a Tongsheng tsdz2 with the intention of fitting to my Pino tandem. Although I ride standard tandems regularly it is for fairly short distances without attempting the challenging hills. As my usual Pino tandem partner is neither particularly fit or strong I find that longer trips or those that go in hilly areas leave me pretty tired and sore. Hence the purchase. Initially I have fitted it to my old Claude Butler Dalesman of 1984 vintage. I was an easy fit and is a good match for the 7 speed cluster with its 34 tooth bottom gear. I have so far had just one charge of the 17 amp hour battery through it with some encouraging results. The total mileage according to my satnav is 55 with some serious climbs included. As I live in the Harrogate area there are plenty of hills to go at and one of the many dealt with was the Middle Tongue route up to Greenhow from Pateley Bridge. If it can climb that without problems it can climb anything. The system does not stop me working fairly hard but not to the usual level of sweaty exhaustion. Average speed is increased significantly though the speed limiter does tail off the power just under 16 mph, cycling beyond that is possible but there is a noticeable increase in effort that makes it feel not really worth it. As a torque sensor system, riding seems very natural and gear changing is easy. I think that it should work very well on the Pino with its Sachs 3x7 gears.

Hopefully I'll run another full charge through it this week but before I do this I need to fit a watt meter so I can get a proper assessment of the state of battery charge and the estimated mileage left available. Just to note the test so far has all been below 5°c, so non winter temperatures may improve performance.

Finally i got the replacement LCD display with the right plug on it(only took 4 1/2 mths to sort out lol) and at last i have ridden it and can give an opinion. Didn't like it at first, being used to a Bafang BBS01 250w ,it seemed weak considering it was 350w and limited in available adjustments but i will persevere.

I went on a group ride day before yesterday, its a very leisurely group made up of over 55's on mainly hybrid type bikes and i have previously found it frustrating when riding the Bafang because it doesn't like going that slow especially uphill, and i have to keep constantly flipping between 0(hard work) and 1 or 2 on the light slopes and then 3,4,5 on the steep hills, anyway It was a lot easier with the TSDZ2 because i kept it in 2 most of the time and controlled it by how i was pedaling, lighter pedaling gave a very subtle boost and slightly harder pedaling for the slopes and just slipping into the sport mode for the hills. The whole experience was much more enjoyable in that particular situation. Solo riding, i still prefer the Bafang because it goes up the steep hills around here without me getting knackered, whereas the TSDZ2 requires more work to get the motor working but it seems to go further on the same charge so horses for courses i suppose.

If it had been my first Ebike motor i would have loved the TSDZ2 but having come from the BBS01 it is taking some getting used too, whether i will get to prefer it i just don't know at this stage, only time will tell.

glad you got sorted whiteturbo re the faulty lcd.

 

I don't seem to get anywhere near the same range as others 17ah about 35 miles sport mode/250w 16 amps not hilly.

 

have lowered amps to 14 to see if range is any better

Hey Footpump, About the range you are getting, lowering the amps wont make a blind bit of difference because the motor will always take what it needs unlike Bafang which will restrict the amps, but i dont think that is what is causing your problem. you say your in sport mode which is the second highest setting, so its like a tap off = no water, eco = drip drip,Tour = slow steady flow, Sport = fast steady flow, Turbo = tap full open. So you are riding around with the tap on fast steady flow. What you need to do is to put it in the lowest that you need, so if you are going downhill turn it to off, on the straight put it on eco, mild slope tour, going up a hill sport, long or steep hill turbo.

You need to keep adjusting it all the time to suit the conditions, its a waste keeping in sport when you are going downhill or on the flat, just like your gears you need to be in the right setting for the conditions, you wouldn't keep in the little gear going up big hills would you? and you wouldn't be in the big gear going down hills. Its the same with the motor settings you have to change according to the road. Sorry if i'm trying to teach grandma to suck eggs but it does make a big difference to your economy.

whiteturbo - interesting you say all that, I've ridden the same two motors as well and reached the opposite conclusion!

 

I've just built TSDZ2 onto my dahon folder. I was previously riding a borrowed whoosh dutch style bike (heavy) with a BBS01. I particularly disliked the lag on power delivery when start pedalling, the power overrun on pedal stop (unless blip cutoff brake) and the nasty gear shifting (crunch unless you carefully take power off way before shift).

 

the TSDZ2 is way better - power up and power down near instantaneous with pedal pressure on/off. so approaching junctions I am no longer crapping myself that the motor will push me out when I don't want it to. cutoff brakes are not needed so you can use high spec brakes + levers rather than the nasty chinese lever things or having to invent a cutoff - I have maguras. I can flick shift at speed to keep cadence right exactly the same as I would on a non-electric road bike, up or down (just with that tiny instinctive ease off). It does feel to me (as others have said) like a normal bike but with bionic legs.

 

I have mine on 16 amps and have suitably upped the limiter so that its not in play. On a flat cycle path it cruises at 22mph in turbo with minimal effort , certainly well below the "sweaty barrier". (keeping in high gear to keep the torque up). I use the lower power modes in town to keep under 15mph.

I did order the version with the throttle because I was worried I might need the throttle to be able to use it in "moped mode" but I've taken it off the bike again, its not needed (unless you're perhaps you were weak enough to not apply any significant pedal torque). it was useful for testing it whilst building though.

 

Iike others I'm getting much better fuel economy with this compared to the bafang. with max assist mode on both motors and the same largely flat and fast route, I used to use around 8ah for 12 miles on the bafang. using about 4ah for the same on the tongsheng (albeit on a nimbler bike).

 

my only dislike is the VLCD5 display and mount is a bit big and was awkward to find a home for on the folder's cockpit. the grip one would have been worse though.

 

however in short I'm well happy with it.

whiteturbo at 69 I find sport suits me the best , I just stop peddling if going downhill, and coast ,echo and tour no good for my legs.

its range of 30 10ah summertime vs 35 for 17ah which niggles me.

Sandyman44 i dont know how you can come to the opposite conclusion to me because i have not yet come to a conclusion, infact i said as much. I have never had any problems changing gear on on either of my Bafang equipped bikes, Maybe its a technique thing, but right from the start i just shifted as normal if i had had any problems i would have invested in that gear changing device but i never had the need, i dont get any lag or overrun, i did invest fairly early in the programming lead so maybe that helped but i certainly haven't experienced the problems you have, I have Avid BB7's on one of my bikes and they work fine with the supplies brake levers, mine are black and are fine especially as i have big hands as they are a bit on the large size(the levers that is) My biggest moan with the Bafangs are tidying up all the leads, the TSDZ2 has definitely won on that front. The Display on the bafangs are a lot better, I have the colour version and it gives so much more information like volts as opposed to black bars and how much power i am using at any point but i am hopeful that Tongseng will develop a better display. Also i find you have to be in the right gear and the right mode setting, for example when i approach a junction i automatically drop into a low gear and also drop the mode usually to 1 but sometimes 2 but that also applies to the Tongsheng if you want the economy. The TSDZ2 seems to be quite a bit more frugal with power and i'm expecting at least a 25% increase in range from it. I dont have throttles on my bicycles, i hold a full motor bike licence and if i want a throttle i would buy a motor bike. My pelvis is held together with titanium plates so i sometimes appreciate not having to pedal too hard with the Bafangs but i did find it hard in the beginning keeping the bafang in the sweet spot, that does seems a lot easier with the TSDZ2 or maybe i am benefiting from my experience with the bafang because i did expect it to just go when you pedal and its not quite that simple. The TSDZ2 is definitely more physically demanding , Not yet sure if that is a good or bad thing, but my pelvis will tell me if i push it too hard so thats another thing that only time will tell. I expect my TSDZ2 to fit right in to my stable of bikes but as to which is better i will reserve judgement until i have spent more time with it.