Review Tong Sheng TSDZ2 Owner Survey

[harrys]

After 600 miles, and three mid drive installs, I believe I finally learned how to ride my TSDZ2. I keep it in Eco mode, rear gear in one of the middle gears, and spin the pedals faster than I normally do, Plenty of power, even if the motor is off. Climbs better too. Before, I was riding it like a hubmotor, in PAS 1 but in the largest rear gear so I could get some resistance.

By the way, I noted a a small lateral play in the pedals. maybe a mm. The axle goes in/out but the crank gear doesn't move, The other bike, a TSDZ2B with 60 miles has no play. Maybe nothing, but I'll ride it til it falls apart.

TSDZ2 Lateral Play

After 600 miles, about 1 mm of play

youtube.com

 

[Mendip99]

I bought a TSDZ2 from Whoosh - stated as 250W 48V.

Put it into a Niner MTB with a few tweaks, including
changing the chainring to 34Teeth, and running with a dinner plate 11 to 48 rear cassette

Also fitted Bangfang cranks to reduce Q factor

Have a 10Ah battery in a small frame bag that I have yet to empty on a day's ride

Almost 1,000 miles, mainly off road and often wet/muddy but no electrical or control problems

Lateral play/wobble in the main axle seems to be increasing, a bit at odds with my other non electric bikes running Shimano sealed BBs or the old loose balls and adjustable cups days, so I might investigate the various on line solutions like DS shims or extra bearings on the NDS side.

Generally really pleased with it, great value and minimal weight increase to the bike. It lets me get much further afield on tarmac roads with the wide tyres, and then get home easily when tired after a few loops of the MTB trails

 

[Nealh]

With the tsdz2 axle play one needs to an extra bearing on each side of the crank axle, with the cranks off its a two minute job.

 

[harrys]

Did some research

A 6902RS bearing to replace the gasket on the non-drive side, . Some people put in two on the non-drive.

It's not clear to me how to add a bearing on the chain gear side in less than two minutes though. unless it replaces the shaft seal. I guess that's what you mean, though it would seem more for reducing lateral play rather than bearing any load.

Will be ordering bearings.

 

[Nealh]

Did some research

A 6902RS bearing to replace the gasket on the non-drive side, . Some people put in two on the non-drive.

It's not clear to me how to add a bearing on the chain gear side in less than two minutes though. unless it replaces the shaft seal. I guess that's what you mean, though it would seem more for reducing lateral play rather than bearing any load.

Will be ordering bearings.

Yes Harry correct. The rhs one whips out the bearing seal and if the bearing isn't a tight fit loktite the bearing in so it stays put, on the outer face I used a neoprene 1mm penny washer glued to the outer bearing surface to weather against damp /dust/grit.

Both sides are 6902rs size, llu-max is a beefier more weatherproof for rhs.

 

[Mendip99]

Thanks for the tips on putting in additional bearings that I have now done.

Any suggestions on sealing the outer edge of the plastic gear case.? There is a nice rubber vee seal on the inner circumference but currently water can get into the outer edge.

Anything better than careful application of a little bathroom sealant on the mating faces before assembly?

 

[Bikes4two]

I use something called Red Rubber Grease (RRG) on that seal - no problems so far after 2 winters - I do periodically take the cover off to check that no water has got in.

 

[Mendip99]

Thanks - so that's RRG on the rubber vee seal, but nothing around the outer edge ?

 

[Bikes4two]

Thanks - so that's RRG on the rubber vee seal, but nothing around the outer edge ?

I just covered the mating surface and the seal, tightened up and removed the excess RRG

I also put RRG on the cover plate that goes over the main gear wheel - that's the one accessed after taking the chainring/spider off. In the attached pic I've labelled that cover as 'A'. It's a very quick job to remove the chain wheel and get to the cover and remove it to check for water ingress and then apply RRG. A friend's TSDZ2 did get water in there and this led to a noisy bearing or two.

FYI, the cover I've labelled 'B' isn't a water sealed cover and doesn't need to be unless you've had cause to change the controller as this is where all the cables from the controller exit the motor casing. The cables are however very well sealed which you'll discover if you ever have to pull the cables through!

 

[Mendip99]

Many thanks for taking time for the comprehensive clarification - seems that sealing against water ingress is improved on the To7 DM02 so may consider that if I ever do need to replace the Tongsheng.

In the meantime thanks for all the advice to keep it going as long as possible !

 

[Bikes4two]

............ In the meantime thanks for all the advice to keep it going as long as possible !

What I like about the TSDZ2 is how straight forward it is to strip the motor down and replace bits if needed with the various parts easily available at very modest prices.

I've now fitted 5 of these motors and one of them was a bit noisy and as I had the time to investigate why exactly that was and with the luxury of having two motors to hand to swap bits around, I resolved the noise issue - if stripping stuff down is your sort of thing, then my post in ES HERE gives you an idea on how far you can break down these motors and find/fit replacement bits without anything other than simple tools.

 

[Bogmonster666]

About ~1000 miles on motor. Getting noisy and rough so stripped down. Very damp inside. The fault was easy to find, the central bearing on the gear reduction shaft was shot. A couple of pounds for a replacement and running fine again. Blue gear is fine. Took the opportunity to use RRG to improve sealing. On 2nd chain. Overall it's doing fine. Stock firmware and always on assist level 2. Often tow a trailer. Use with double chainring and a 7 speed cassette on a ~29 year old Claude Butler mountain bike. Cheap, reliable transport if you are ok with simple fettling. I like the torque sensor so this kit works great for me.

The motor is easy to strip down and repair with basic tools and easy to source parts. If I was using for commuting to work or in a less hilly area I think a hub motor would be dandy, but this is a better fit for me.

Initially had noise which disappeared when I ditched the stock chainring - no idea why. Dual chainring works a charm, needed a bit of imagination to get the front derailleur lined up.

Only real complaint is poor water sealing, just need to remember to open up occasionally...

 

[guerney]

About 500 miles per chain seems a bit low - my last KMC X8 chain lasted about 1,527km, on a mid drive (BBS01B). I also did a fair bit of trailer towing.

 

[Bogmonster666]

1st chain did 800 miles, cheap Halfords chain. Current chain is KMC but only done 200 miles on it so far. I can live with 800+ miles per chain.

 

[Nealh]

I never count chain miles but do rotate chains between cleans , it has been years since I have changed any chain on my bikes.
My tsdz Ute is a dry weather bike as it is my apiary kit towing bike, I very rarely visit the bees when wet .

 

[Bogmonster666]

It's impossible to say how long the kit will last but realistically I expect to get about 3 years out of it and >3000 miles. If I achieve this then it's a win. Les than this and I might feel it wasn't a best buy.

I'm quite happy to replace bearings and the like and these are very cheap. Obviously a controller failure or a torque sensor failure is more expensive but I still think it will likely go the distance.

Not been cycling quite so much recently due to the poor weather, especially in the Mendips, but looking forwards to getting out more as the weather improves.

Although it does not have anywhere near the reliability of say the Bosch system, I can fix it myself. Touch wood, I've not been stranded anywhere yet. And I'm also not afraid to leave it locked up outside supermarkets and the like, it looks like a complete heap of dung.

 

[harrys]

I've put 980 miles on my TSDZ2 since I installed it in late 2022. The VLDC5 froze on me when I tried to zero the distance, but mistakenly had the odometer numbers showing. I pressed the center button too long and it must have gone into some factory diagnostic mode and jammed. There's a factory reset listed on youtube, but that still left it stuck, So I had to replace the VLCD5 last summer.

My other ebikes use KT controllers with LCD3 displays, and I seem to break one every year when a bike falls over, so I already had a spare VLDC5, I just bought another spare display, and decided to add a controller board, as it was only $24USD,

 

[Bikes4two]

There's some very useful feedback and good advice in this thread regarding getting the most out of the TSDZ2.

I've now been riding my 'main' TSDZ2 (I have a spare motor/bike - long story) since Oct '21 and whilst i'm not fanatical about recording mileage anymore, I'd estimate that I've done well north of 6,000 miles on that bike and I'd make the following observations:

• Chain wear - I use the gears a lot to maintain a cadence of 60+ and only ride in ECO now (the ebike got me fitter!) so 'strain' on the drive chain is really not much more, if any, than when I rode bikes without 'E' and I get 3,000-4,000 miles per KMC chain (from Decathlon, sold under their own brandname). I'm not a religious 'chain cleaner', just enough washing/lubing to keep the chain running smoothly (you can hear when the chain needs some oil!).
• Mechanicals - none so far on this one but the 'spare' mentioned above - got from a friend - did get water inside the main gear plate cover (Plate 'A' in my post #69) and as per an earlier post by someone else, a bearing got noisy but was easy to replace. Making the effort to inspect for water ingress and add additional sealing is a good thing to do.
• Tightening - the cranks and other fixing points of the motor to frame, do need to be periodically checked for tightness. I use a torque wrench to get the 40Nm on the cranks as (A) I thought I knew when tight was tight enough - it wasn't and (B) if not tightened to 40Nm then they sure as heck will loosen up.
• I have the VLCD6 display - annoyingly the face 'steams up' occasionally despite my repeated efforts to dry/re-seal but a minor irritation as after an hour's riding the display comes clear.
• The paint job on the motor casing is rubbish but a quick rubdown and re-paint with Hammerite solved that.

From this thread and others on Endless Sphere it is apparent that problems can develop with the TSDZ2 but that depends a lot on what you do with it (220Kg rider; bunny hoping, 750w at 52v! - ouch). However, if you or a friend are handy with tools then problems are not difficult to resolve.

Let's face it, these motors are cheap enough to (almost) warrant buying a second one to keep as a spare.

 

[Sturmey]

My other ebikes use KT controllers with LCD3 displays, and I seem to break one every year..........

The LCD3 sits about an inch high on a pedestal. I took the display off the pedestal (2 screws) and fitted it lower, sitting directly on the handlebars using a bit of steel holed tape and cable ties. Its much more tidy and less likely to get damaged, especially when inverting bike for puncture repairs etc.