Tonaro Bighit Battery Information

[adifrank]

Hi Guys,
Don't know if you can help, but im still having problems with my battery.
On saturday i went for a ride and covered 16 miles mostly on assist level 2
with some on 3 no throttle used.
By the time i got home only two lights showing so not too bad, however
today after charging last nite, within 100 yards of setting off one battery indicator light
went out which its never done before until Ive covered around five miles or so.
So does anyone know when the battery was made from the info below please.
Also i tried to check the individual cells from what i thought was the BMS as coming out of the battery pack are eleven black wires terminating in a plastic connector.
I could not get any sensible voltage readings from this connector.

Battery info.
AE7288195PMHRE
AE 120421000226

This is whats on the label on the pack.
I did think i would be able to check the individual cell voltages via this connector
but putting the neg lead on the neg wire and the pos wire on each tiny wire on the
connector did not read any volts .
There is certainly some voltage sag under load, and i would like to see if one of the cells
is off.
At the moment im a little dissapointed with the battery performance.
If it turns out to be normal then would the acquisition of a Headway Battery from these
guys EclipsEbikes be more robust than what i have now.

Cheers all Frank..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Did you have your voltmeter on AC instead of DC?

 

[adifrank]

Did you have your voltmeter on AC instead of DC?

No twas on DC
Frank.

 

[Eagle]

I would not worry too much about how many lights are on. Those displays are not particularly accurate in my experience.
You need to measure the fully charged battery voltage, then measure it again on a run, say, every 5 miles. Also make a note of the terrain and amount of assistance used.

The fully charged reading should be over 42v and fully discharged at about 34v.

Has your hesitation under load disappeared with this second battery or are things as before with the original one?

 

[flecc]

Following a convention similar to that used used by some battery manufacturers, it could have been battery number 226 of those made on 21/4/2012. No guarantees on that being correct though.

 

[adifrank]

I would not worry too much about how many lights are on. Those displays are not particularly accurate in my experience.
You need to measure the fully charged battery voltage, then measure it again on a run, say, every 5 miles. Also make a note of the terrain and amount of assistance used.

The fully charged reading should be over 42v and fully discharged at about 34v.

Has your hesitation under load disappeared with this second battery or are things as before with the original one?

No the motor cuts momentarily for three or four turns of the peddles then carries on as normal.
weird as it does it whatever controller is used as i have a spare, and sometimes it happens once while out and on another trip will happen two or three times at random.

 

[Eagle]

Frank,
I could be wrong but I think if you read the Oxydrive bike kit Full Users manual V.1.2, (second one down) you will perhaps gain a clue as to why this cutting out is happening on your Tonaro:
OXYDrive? -Support

d8veh also refers to the 5 different pedal assist levels in this thread:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/12872-oxydrive-kit.html

Note that he rarely uses levels 4 and 5. Also note what happens when he does use them.

Then again, it may be totally unrelated!

 

[oigoi]

Looking at the bms on my bike you would need to measure between the positive and each of the tiny wires to measure the cell voltages. The input impedance of a digital voltmeter is very high so you wont damage anything to try this

 

[adifrank]

Looking at the bms on my bike you would need to measure between the positive and each of the tiny wires to measure the cell voltages. The input impedance of a digital voltmeter is very high so you wont damage anything to try this

Hi oigoi,
Yes ok will try that, i have a fluke meter so that's no problem.
i assume it does not matter what the voltage is at the time of measurement so long as they
are all the same or as near as.
Cheers Frank..

 

[hech]

Hi Frank, I think the first label refers to the physical size- 72mm, 88mm, 195mm.
Check the individual cell voltages as Oigoi suggests, should all be within 0.15v of each other.
I had that intermittent cut out problem which may have been due to the brake wire corrosion within the frame. Cleaning the connection seemed to do the trick. The stock battery does the job on this bike but dont expect magic from whats probably a 1C cell.

 

[adifrank]

Hi Heck,
Ok thanks for that, and is the brake wire connection in the frame where the loom comes
out near the headstock. As i have not ventured into that area yet.
i did read that the loom is a bit of a mess in that part.
Frank..

 

[adifrank]

I am aware of the battery limitations and may try a Headway pack in the spring
which uses proper cells and is capable of around 5c
From these guys eclipsebikes.com| bikes | electric bike kits | Pedal | Power
Frank

 

[mike killay]

Frank,
bit of an outside one this.
On another thread, d8veh says that there should only be 1mm gap between the magnet ring on the left hand crank and the sensor. Try checking yours.
Also, as you know, I have swung my pedal sensor up out of the way and am now throttle only.I used to get these occaisional cut outs when using pedelec, so try using the throttle. No need to alter anything, the throttle will override the sensor.

 

[adifrank]

Frank,
bit of an outside one this.
On another thread, d8veh says that there should only be 1mm gap between the magnet ring on the left hand crank and the sensor. Try checking yours.
Also, as you know, I have swung my pedal sensor up out of the way and am now throttle only.I used to get these occaisional cut outs when using pedelec, so try using the throttle. No need to alter anything, the throttle will override the sensor.

Hi Mike,
Ok will check that gap, however Phil emailed me last nite to ask for more details on what and where this occurs as he had it happen to him while out riding a day or so ago.
im also going to check the connections in the frame as Heck suggested.

Frank..

 

[alban]

I am aware of the battery limitations and may try a Headway pack in the spring
which uses proper cells and is capable of around 5c
From these guys eclipsebikes.com| bikes | electric bike kits | Pedal | Power
Frank

Gleaned info from pioneers here and ES. I got 12X10AH Headways from Eclipse and put them together in 2X6s packs with Headway's own connectors etc, added RC balance leads, all wrapped in duct tape. No BMS but I use a balance charger to bal charge the 2X6S packs - which are joined in series on the bike with low voltage alarms to each 6S pack. Then put this pack in parallel via a Schottky diode (to protect the stock batt. BMS) with the Tonaro one to give a notional 20AH. I wouldn't want to put more weight on the rack than this but it's been OK sooo far off-road! Still get quite a bit of sag but it is more peppy and I have more range. Batts are giving out about 1C each max.
Hech/d8veh would prob suggest RC LiPo as lighter and more powerful but I'm of a more nervous disposition - so rather have a 'safer' type of LiFePO batt.

 

[adifrank]

Hi alban
Thanks for your input, i was under the impression the Headways were able to hold up better than
1c. However with that in mind and 12 amps from their ready made pack i was thinking of just swopping
the basic battery for their 36v 12amp to give me just a bit more range and to keep the initial pep of a freshly charged battery for longer.
Maybe im on the wrong tack here and its only RC lipo which wont sag under load, and the volts will
keep stable until you reach the knee where they're nearly empty.
I must admit im not too keen on RC batteries as i dont know enough about them, other than they can be a bit volatile and would much prefer an off the shelf fix at the moment.
What was the finished size of the battery alban when you had it taped up.?
This forum is brilliant.
Thanks guys
Frank..

 

[alban]

Frank
The Headways are capable of more C - 3C or so I've read without too bad a sag - but in my parallel setup never called on yet to provide more than 1.25C each. Even under that load there is some sag but it's not bad and better than the original alone under the increased current drain (20-25A max due to a 'shunt mod' on the controller - more than I had intended!). Have to be careful not to discharge below 2.7V or over 3.6V but my 'balance charger' takes care of the top figure.
The power indicator lights are very sensitive to lowering V so not an accurate guide.
The batt weighs about 5KGs, fits in a 5L ice cream container (nothing if not a style icon, me) and snugly in a narrowish rack bag (Avenir mini-pannier). It's stable enough with a bungie but is a bit top-heavy on tight turns.
I also managed to get an inner 24t granny chainwheel on my older version of the bike. I use this for the odd steep hill (1:5s - which it goes up slowly with no pedalling) but as yet have to manually change it which is a bit Heath Robinson! Fitting a front der is nigh on impossible. With more fettling I reckon I could use the 24t alone as speed is not my object, climbing is. The little 200W motor seems willing enough but I'm conscious it gets pretty hot so I give it a rest when climbing. Not sure of the stresses on the gear reducer mech and I have had to replace one bearing/gear already but I'm sure that was due to trauma not stress!
My setup is odd but suits my needs very well. I was a complete novice coming to this so with the generous help on offer here and ES it's poss to tweak stuff yourself.
TBH I would consider RC Lipo now as I'm a bit more conversant with things. As long as I had a very safe place to watch over/charge/store it. Shame A123 is going bust as that's a good high C LiFePO tech. Cell_man has a good reputation and sells good (not cheap) A123 packs but shipping/VAT charges are getting more of a deal breaker on these Chinese based ops. Eclipse seem a reputable op.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Headway cells are rated at 10C continuous Discharge and Charge They are BOMBS waiting to go off if you get it wrong you will burn down your house

Frank

 

[adifrank]

alban
Thanks for info, i did think the Headway batts were the way to go.
They do a 36v 12amp pack with charger and bms which was what i was considering for early spring
as i will probably be limited to local outings during the winter.

Banbury frank
Hi Frank im aware of the nature of these batterys and i have a detached garage where all things
bike get done. I dont even trust the battery pack which came with the bike 100 %.
Thanks for the heads up tho.

Frank..

 

[muckymits]

Hi Headway cells are rated at 10C continuous Discharge and Charge They are BOMBS waiting to go off if you get it wrong you will burn down your house

Frank

I have searched all over for these problems and found only 2 that have caught fire and was found to be faulty BMS.