To build or not to build ?

[bazwaldo]

Hi mxer125, you are doing a great job with this! I am full of admiration for for the DIY skills you are showing with this battery build. It will be very interesting to see the finished product.
Thanks for posting.
Barry.

 

[mxer125]

Water proof Thanks to Pringles.....

Still need to colour code, and then make another one, Hot swap....

 

[NRG]

Thats good, very good! Like it a lot...

 

[mxer125]

All done, couple of tweeks to finish completly but i'm riding it with a huge grin.....Very happy!!

New motor

Alarms and meter (Ugly mount I know, but will be removed once cycled/durance tested)

 

[Scottyf]

Practical and it works which is the mainthing to start with.
Aesthetics can always be work on.

Hope it all does well

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Nice job. You now have the potential for more power. That torque sensor bottom bracket might be a blessing in disguise if we can figure out how it works. You'll be really lucky if it has a three wire connection with 5v supply and a signal wire to the controller, which means that you'd be able to use it with some other controllers.

 

[mxer125]

Thanks, I want to turn the power down, Lol, It's a bit mental a 49.9 30amps the motor is an 8T 320rpm, I awaiting a usb cable from Lyen so i can set the LVC and turn the Amps down a bit to maybe 16 to 18amps try to reserve some of that lipo, May need some help with that, so if anyones had a play with the XPD 0.20 i would be interested in hereing your experience and sharing some tip's.....

The torque sensor is the reason i got this bike, Because it's gone.......It's a technical none replacable Fibre optic reader inside the unit and, Well........ will never work basicly, But saying that i have never tried it, Just took the seller's word for it ?

I could fit a magnet pedlec system, but looking into 3 speed switch's insteed for now, pahaps later down the line.....

Future mod's will be 160mm disk's, another 12s 5ah pack and 11t freewheel with a 52t chainring....

I will be bulk charging next week with the BMS alloy shell set to 49.9 6 amp so wish me luck.....

 

[Scottyf]

It's a bit mental a 49.9 30amps the motor is an 8T 320rpm,
I will be bulk charging next week with the BMS alloy shell set to 49.9 6 amp so wish me luck.....

Setting the amps around 20 - 25 seems to give good range and plenty of power without burning up anything in the motor. Using 44v and the 320rpm wind you should be hitting close to 30mph flat out on that motor.

I'm still waiting for my cable to come through from Lyen. However the software looks a doddle to play about with.

I too have recently purchase a 240w bulk charging unit from BMS so will be a similar charging setup. However I've only asked that mine be setup up for 4.05v per cell. I just don't trust it to go any higher than that without proper cell monitoring for bulk charging. As its one I will just use when i'm out.

So far the Turnigy / Zippy stay in better balance than the Winforce Lipo's.
The Turnigy ones stay about 0.04v within each other whilst the winforce are more around the 0.07v range.

If you ever need to sell a motor or two a might take one from you ;-)

 

[mxer125]

20 amps sounds good thanks for the heads up, 30mph no problem, wayyyyy to fast for me (couldn't open my eyes Lol) hence for the cable, need to turn things down abit, at 30amps this thing just wants to pull your arms off and not much throttle control due to the burst's of amperage (wheelie time)....

Let me know how the cable goes, I have no clue how to do this Ie, does the controller need to be powered up or can you just plug it in etc (i have a spare one i could bring to the laptop and play, no power to it etc) saves me going to the garage with my laptop.....

I have a 400w comming due to future 10ah pack, (Im hoping i can turn the amps down a bit, due to being over the 1c charge rate rule of my 5ah pack..

Mine is set for 4.15v I need it for the range and to gain as much Ah's out of it due to being only 5ah at the mo..

I like the price of the Winforce packs....

For now i'm going to keep the geared motors, Thinking of selling the DD kit as a whole, But temped to have a play with the capabilities of the DD's (big grin) but my head is saying STOP SPENDING!!!....

Let me know about the usb programming, and how it goes......Thanks

 

[Scottyf]

The geared motors will be faster off the line and more fun if you ask me for the same power. You can use ebikes.ca simulator to have a play. But at 30amp the geared hubs poo all over the direct drives.

But they dont dispel heat as quickly and the gears and clutch can't take as much raw power going through them. A moderate geared system like your own will be better for all round riding unless you plan on jumping.

Direct drives work better for flat terrain with high speed. They need loads of amp to make them have any usable torque. Which means more batteries and larger controllers.

I haven't bulk charged since I had lipo. Just using a lipo charger daily that's powered by an old xbox 360 203w brick. This kicks out about 180w and takes a couple of hours to charge my 660w lipo. It's fine so long as I don't want my lipo in under an hour. I've only opted for the 240w charger since it's still small for portable use.

If you have time between charges there's no reason to go mental and charge them up quick. But if time is critical or the packs are huge I understand.
After all most standard ebike batteries only seem to come with 150w chargers that take several hours to charge. An that would be a powerful one for a normal kit.

 

[NRG]

Also keep in mind re amps that these controllers can be up to 5amps over the programmed value and don't forget to scale back the phase amps at the same time keeping them no more than 2.5x the battery current...

 

[morphix]

Fired her up and WOW It's a fantastic little bike as it is, even for a 24v brushed 180w motor, Oh dear??..... I was so intent on ripping this up a doing a build but.........but.........I don't know what to do now, it's just tooo good as it is???..

Ok it's a great bike as it is but for me was looking for that little bit extra as i said........This is quick and quite torqee, but not the quick and torqee that i want for my work route...

1, So my options are, sell it ? idealy to someone who knows e bikes, due to some new arangments, controller, funky wiring in places etc..

2, Stick to the original plane and pull it apart (but is it suitable......really?)

3, keep it as a runner and start over with a new standard bike with the bike i'm going to order...


ps, lipo's and charger and bit's and bobs lvc's hxt's etc on there way, motor still to be ordered but will most proberly will be the BPM, if i sell one of my heli's in the mean time i may push to the MAC....

What would you do with it?? Thankyou all in advance

Nice find! From eBay? You didn't say how much you paid, would be interested to know to help you reach your decision..

But seen as you seem to really like the bike and how it rides, it seems a pity to pull it apart if it's going ok.

Is it underpowered or just under-geared for your needs and fitness level? Surely if its a question of gearing you can sort that out without doing much work or spending much.

Assuming you like the bike, if it's just underpowered then how about providing more battery power to the motor and just re-kitting that battery pack as you suggested? That might be a good economical solution rather than stripping it down and starting over. I'm not sure about over-volting motors though, probably want to tread carefully and get some advice from the more technically savvy members here. What's the worse could happen though? You burn out the controller and/or motor and then have to strip and put a new kit on?

 

[mxer125]

I petty much finished with the build now, But the best thing is i have not affected any off the original feature's at all, There is nothing stopping me putting it back to it's original state, I was very carful not to deface any of the bike while designing/ building for the new kit for the simple reason i was still unsure if i liked the bike and even how it turned out afterwards (mainly the size, I'm 6ft) this way i could move on......

The bike itself doesn't own me alot, even with the extra's i had to buy throttles different types of controllers, Connector's and accessories etc to get it going it's still under £200.....

I have tried the route you mentioned, Adding additional power to the motor which is very stong btw, I tried a short burst of 48v and was extreamly happy with the power and speed, but it involve adding Sla's and Nimh, which i wasn't happy with and was not great for work purposes, i needed a one pop solution....

Recelling the 24v pack Nimh to get the 48v power i needed sounded a headache in that tinny alloy pack so that wasn't going to happen.....

I'm still in two minds weather to keep the bike due to it's size etc, and revert it back to standard?...For a 24v standard bike would be a good one for someone and is like new (allthough the pack is tired, 5,6mls max)....
But what would i get for it? and would i be able to replace it with a suitable bike with disk's and susspension for that kind of money in newish condition? so i can put my new kit on ? i'm unsure....

Will see what happends when i have used it a bit more....

 

[Scottyf]

If it works and your happy with it I'd say keep it.
Unless your going to buy a complete new used bike and then a kit your still going to have to spend a minimum of £500 to get it all up and running.

At the moment you have a bike that works thats cost you peanuts.

You really wont get much for it on the second hand market. There's plenty of Cyclematics 2nd hand going for £300 all in.
There's really not much £££ in selling a 2nd hand electric bike. They plummet. As there designed cost and milage and batteries are so expensive to replace it generally makes the actual bike worthless. Which is a shame as if you removed the motor / battery etc there actually, usually still good usable bikes.

As you have a few kits kicking around your probably best to keep that bike and build another on top.
But build a differnt style of ebike.

 

[mxer125]

I think you nail on the head Scottyf ......

I now have this 26" brushed motor spare off this bike due to the new mac motor fitment, I also have an old battery shopper in the garage with some stripped motors gears i used for work for a while, it runs a 48v system, I have a plan....

As for the spare Mac, I will treat this to a new bike in the summer......

 

[mxer125]

Just thought i would add this to finish off.....

I had to re-program the controller due to default 31amps, down to 25amps (nice tip NRG, Thanks), it's comfortable on the throttle now

Here is a picture of my finished bike (for the thread).....

I will add some stats in for reference
12s1p pack 5ah 44.2v

Charging to 50v...

Last run 3.8 miles slight peddling (no force)

Max speed 32.2 mph

2,202 AH
25.60 AP
100.7 WH
1211 WP
43.98 VM

resting voltage 46.06.... all 12 cells sitting at 3.84 two at 3.83...

I estimate another mile before the VM get scary ....


Oh, alarms set at 3.6 none went off, They do work as i had them set to 3.8 on the first run after about 2.7 miles .....

 

[mxer125]

Oh, check out my freewheel mod, Would recommend if using an 11t DNP... I will allways be on the 11t, Check out the unsupported area within the freewheel (could flex and rip of your hub thread, Nice!!!)....

 

[Scottyf]

What was the bearing size for this though!?!
Sorry I don't have a verneer to check myself.

It will help but the cassette is not load bearing as such but the bearing does make it a better spacer! Will be interesting getting it out if tapped in and you want to remove the free wheel.

 

[flecc]

Neat idea putting a bearing in there, solves the inherent weakness of multi-sprocket freewheels, much weaker than cassettes.

 

[mxer125]

The bearing is a standard 6803 26mm od 17mm id (they are pence to buy) my axle is 14mm so had to use some 14mmid to 17mm od steel tube for spacers (in pic) the freewheel id is 26.5 so fits in nicley with a layer of insulation tape for a snug fit (easy to remove) the bearing had to be pressed on the spacers tho....

The freewheel can be flexed with a small amount of pressure, proberly movment within the freewheel bearing ?, but not good for the hub thread if hard on it on the 11t, The stresses must be huge, that bearing i bet takes alot of that stress..

here's there bearing pushed onto the spacer...I have three spare if you want me to send you one scotty to have a play Foc ?..