Throttles and the other EU nations

[morphix]

That's already been done some while ago. The DfT asked for representations from interested parties and many of us made submissions. BEBA has also made representations through their lobbyist in the Houses of Parliament.

If the DfT wishes to permit throttles with the new EU law, in the UK they will be able to do so. The EU isn't the ogre that it's often represented to be, but we will not have the right to cross borders with our throttle bikes then. That is the whole point of transport harmonisation, free movement across Europe, and we will just be impeding that.

I personally don't accept that throttles are vital when 26 other member countries don't feel the need. It's just Britain being perverse again as we so often are with EU issues.

Well I see what you're saying, and I agree throttles aren't ESSENTIAL for e-bikes and I know some sit on the side of the fence that think a true e-bike is PAS. However, I think we should have the CHOICE, especially because the law allows it already at present. Why take away a choice when it does not seem to be in the public interest in any way shape or form, it's merely copying what other countries do.

 

[flecc]

Surely there's a strong common sense legal argument for the UK having that provision for throttles? I mean, if we don't, thousands of people are going to become criminals, that are at present doing nothing wrong in UK law?

No they won't, as I've posted many times, the DfT have promised an exemption for existing legal e-bikes since the new law when passed will not be retrospective. They can continue in use. Technically 250 watts bikes are not legal at present, but that will no doubt be a blind eye issue, no fear of prosecution.

 

[flecc]

Why take away a choice when it does not seem to be in the public interest in any way shape or form, it's merely copying what other countries do.

Harmonisation as I said, the abilty to cross borders throughout Europe, that's why, and it makes bikes more expensive for one country to have something different.

It's not just the 26 countries of Europe, Australia had now adopted EU law, China intends to and others have indicated likewise. They have all recognised just how sensible that law is and realised the many benefits for all that worldwide harmonisation will bring.

 

[morphix]

Harmonisation as I said, the abilty to cross borders throughout Europe, that's why, and it makes bikes more expensive for one country to have something different.

It's not just the 26 countries of Europe, Australia had now adopted EU law, China intends to and others have indicated likewise. They have all recognised just how sensible that law is and realised the many benefits for all that worldwide harmonisation will bring.

How far do you wanna go with that? Should we switch to driving on the other side of the road, and change all our plugs to 2-pin, the same as the rest of the world, for the sake of "harmonisation" and better efficiency? ;-)

 

[shemozzle999]

It's just Britain being perverse again as we so often are with EU issues.

Personally I am quite happy to be a part of this free thinking perverted society, luckily there are no laws against it.

 

[BAH48]

"How far do you wanna go with that? Should we switch to driving on the other side of the road, and change all our plugs to 2-pin, the same as the rest of the world, for the sake of "harmonisation" and better efficiency? ;-)"

In a word - yes, for those of us who travel on the continent it would be a great help.

 

[RoadieRoger]

I don`t use the throttle for riding but when a nasty hill and low battery power coincide , I hop off and walk alongside and use the throttle to drive the machine up at my walking pace to conserve what power is left . It would be a shame to lose this facility because of some non Ebike riding Bureaucrat .

 

[flecc]

How far do you wanna go with that? Should we switch to driving on the other side of the road, and change all our plugs to 2-pin, the same as the rest of the world, for the sake of "harmonisation" and better efficiency? ;-)

Sweden did change to left hand drive of course, so it is possible. As for two pin, of course we opted for a higher voltage than most others so needed the extra precaution of good earthing via third pin.

The issue with transport of course is that Europe is effectively borderless, except for cussed over-regulated Britain with it's over-taxed fags, booze and fuel, enforced by bossy customs.

You'll gather that I'm not a Union Flag waver.

 

[flecc]

I don`t use the throttle for riding but when a nasty hill and low battery power coincide , I hop off and walk alongside and use the throttle to drive the machine up at my walking pace to conserve what power is left . It would be a shame to lose this facility because of some non Ebike riding Bureaucrat .

You won't as I've said above more than once. Walk-alongside throttles are permitted everywhere in Europe and Britain, but you can't have run alongside! It's 4 mph, which is a very fast walk.

 

[morphix]

I don`t use the throttle for riding but when a nasty hill and low battery power coincide , I hop off and walk alongside and use the throttle to drive the machine up at my walking pace to conserve what power is left . It would be a shame to lose this facility because of some non Ebike riding Bureaucrat .

It's interesting how people ride and use their bikes.. and I think your views/needs can change like mine have due to circumstances... when I first got into e-bikes I use to look down on the throttle-only users and speed freaks... I was like flecc and thought a true pedelec is exactly that, PAS. But then I had my knee problem and that limited how much I could pedal and I just began to see the ease and benefit of having a throttle. It's just nice to have the choice and flexibility as you say without feeling you're doing anything wrong or breaking the law.

But as flecc has posted, the law is not going to apply retrospectively on old bikes, so we can all breathe a sigh of relief and carry on throttling along regardless. I don't know how they will enforce/check this on self-builds though in the unlikely event the situation should arise... presumably they would want proof of when you purchased the kit+throttle, but you could always just keep an old receipt for an identical kit fitted AFTER the law changed, just to cover you. Heh.

That's a thought.. surely keeping old bikes/kits exempt creates a large legal loophole.. since kits and bikes change hands regularly on the second hand user market.. if someone purchased a kit second hand which was made/sold before the law change to the original owner... would that kit still be exempt to fit to another bike AFTER the law change? Unless you have the original receipt from the owner, it would be your word against theirs..

 

[flecc]

That's a thought.. surely keeping old bikes/kits exempt creates a large legal loophole.. since kits and bikes change hands regularly on the second hand user market.. if someone purchased a kit second hand which was made/sold before the law change to the original owner... would that kit still be exempt to fit to another bike AFTER the law change? Unless you have the original receipt from the owner, it would be your word against theirs..

There is a clear onus to prove legality. As I've warned before, it's best to have in place documentation and photographs etc to prove that before the law changes. Anyone who can't prove that prior status can and probably will be successfully prosecuted on some occasions.

 

[shemozzle999]

There is a clear onus to prove legality. As I've warned before, it's best to have in place documentation and photographs etc to prove that before the law changes. Anyone who can't prove that prior status can and probably will be successfully prosecuted on some occasions.

So get your bikes posted on the picture gallery asap!

 

[morphix]

There is a clear onus to prove legality. As I've warned before, it's best to have in place documentation and photographs etc to prove that before the law changes. Anyone who can't prove that prior status can and probably will be successfully prosecuted on some occasions.

Very good advice flecc, then your ass is covered

 

[morphix]

I wonder, is the industry going to use this law-change in their advertising and will there will be a big surge in sales of throttle-bikes and throttle-kits just before!

 

[flecc]

I wonder, is the industry going to use this law-change in their advertising and will there will be a big surge in sales of throttle-bikes and throttle-kits just before!

These changes always have a period of grace for suppliers to clear stock, at least six months being typical. Therefore you'll be able to buy throttle etc bikes after the change in law is announced.

 

[GaRRy]

"How far do you wanna go with that? Should we switch to driving on the other side of the road, and change all our plugs to 2-pin, the same as the rest of the world, for the sake of "harmonisation" and better efficiency? ;-)"

In a word - yes, for those of us who travel on the continent it would be a great help.

Why should they not change to drive on left like us . After all we are not the the only country Japan and India for a start. Oh and they used to until the French (napoleon) got involved.

As for plugs again there is not a world standard and its not just a matter of changing the plug but possible complete rewire as there is more than the plug to our system (ring main for starters).

 

[mike killay]

1 When I was recently in Belgium with my throttle only 200 watt bike, I spoke to a local Police Chief that I know. He was unaware of the throttle matter and being a car driver was a bit baffled by the idea of a motor vehicle without a throttle!
2 Light pedalling on flat lands with power assistance is a lot different to pedelecing (new word?) in a hilly district. Hills take it out of me. (Asthma and arthritis)
3 It must be intimdating for foreigners entering Dover. Unlike the unmanned border crossings in Europe, Dover is like Check-Point Charlie used to be. You enter a buliding, there are signs warning of cat claws that come out of the ground. Armed Police, not with pistols in holsters but carrying automatic rifles, sniffer dogs, at least 10 men in yellow jackets with various agancies printed on their backs. Welcome to the UK!!!!

 

[morphix]

Why should they not change to drive on left like us . After all we are not the the only country Japan and India for a start. Oh and they used to until the French (napoleon) got involved.

As for plugs again there is not a world standard and its not just a matter of changing the plug but possible complete rewire as there is more than the plug to our system (ring main for starters).

I think our approach to higher voltage makes more sense.. have you seen the state of electrics in US? Their houses constantly blow fuses and lights flicker when the washing machine is on etc..hehe.

 

[morphix]

1 When I was recently in Belgium with my throttle only 200 watt bike, I spoke to a local Police Chief that I know. He was unaware of the throttle matter and being a car driver was a bit baffled by the idea of a motor vehicle without a throttle!
2 Light pedalling on flat lands with power assistance is a lot different to pedelecing (new word?) in a hilly district. Hills take it out of me. (Asthma and arthritis)
3 It must be intimdating for foreigners entering Dover. Unlike the unmanned border crossings in Europe, Dover is like Check-Point Charlie used to be. You enter a buliding, there are signs warning of cat claws that come out of the ground. Armed Police, not with pistols in holsters but carrying automatic rifles, sniffer dogs, at least 10 men in yellow jackets with various agancies printed on their backs. Welcome to the UK!!!!

If the French did their job properly and secured their borders our Border Agency wouldn't have to do all that and spend so much money protecting our border against the growing population of illegals who basically just camp nearby and try to get sneak into UK every day illlegally.

It seems like we're having to do the Frenchies job for them and the French just turn a blind eye to these camps Afghans and others instead of cracking down on them and deporting them.

 

[flecc]

If the French did their job properly and secured their borders our Border Agency wouldn't have to do all that and spend so much money protecting our border against the growing population of illegals who basically just camp nearby and try to get sneak into UK every day illlegally.

It seems like we're having to do the Frenchies job for them and the French just turn a blind eye to these camps Afghans and others instead of cracking down on them and deporting them.

That's a misundertanding, the French do not have that responsibility except for their own external to the EU borders. Internally the EU is by law borderless to EU citizens and people moving freely within the EU are presumed to be citizens. These illegals are entering France from other EU countries who are the one's whose duty it was not to admit them when they crossed over their external borders. Afghans don't sail into the Bay of Biscay where it would be France's responsibility.