The flatpack EV: how Luvly is aiming to revolutionise the micro-EV market

"Luvly – Light Urban Vehicles – is currently developing the 0, a compact quadricycle that’s just 2700mm long and weighs less than 400kg, yet still offers a 269-litre boot. Featuring swappable batteries, the machine has a claimed range of 62 miles, with a top speed of 56mph – and all for a starting price of £8800. "

 

https://www.moveelectric.com/e-cars/flatpack-ev-how-luvly-aiming-revolutionise-micro-ev-market

 

Somehow I can't see the gagging for SUV's British public going for that.

Can you imagine being in traffic with 4x4's front and back and a truck alongside?

However, it makes absolute sense for most city driving, so long as you don't have two kids to drop off at school.

(I used to walk (or cycle) 4 miles each way to senoir school, what's wrong with kids legs these days?)

"Luvly – Light Urban Vehicles – is currently developing the 0, a compact quadricycle that’s just 2700mm long and weighs less than 400kg, yet still offers a 269-litre boot. Featuring swappable batteries, the machine has a claimed range of 62 miles, with a top speed of 56mph – and all for a starting price of £8800. "

 

https://www.moveelectric.com/e-cars/flatpack-ev-how-luvly-aiming-revolutionise-micro-ev-market

 

That makes Haibike at £4k look cheap.

£9k, no doubt plus on road charges etc..and 60 mile range... Doesn't appeal to me.. Hate IKEA anyway.

Yep, cars must get lighter and more efficient but this looks like something student's had knocked up in their dinner hour.

The latest of a very long line of such cyclecars and quadricycles since 1920, none of them lasting in the market.

 

The major failing in these latest electric versions will be the battery at about £2000 each needing to be be replaced every couple of years or so. Since even more than in e-bikes, the small battery will be working flat out all the time, often emptying every trip and needing to be fully charged every trip. All three of those the worst possible way to treat a lithium battery.

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I really like the flat-pack aspect, but for our blasted roads it needs bigger wheels with wide tyres and/or beefy suspension, more than two seats and a larger battery would extend it's use beyond small shopping trips and short commutes - I imagine such mods wouldn't add more than a couple of hundred kgs to the weight? The designer stated off-the-shelf components were used for motor and drive system, which makes me hopeful it'd be easy for the user to repair and upgrade. But it probably isn't.

I really like the flat-pack aspect, but for our blasted roads it needs bigger wheels with wide tyres and/or beefy suspension, more than two seats and a larger battery would extend it's use beyond small shopping trips and short commutes - I imagine such mods wouldn't add more than a couple of hundred kgs to the weight? The designer stated off-the-shelf components were used for motor and drive system, which makes me hopeful it'd be easy for the user to repair and upgrade. But it probably isn't.

Something like this

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/20/africa/ox-delivers-electric-off-road-truck-rwanda-spc-intl/index.html

More so if we go further down the brexit road andcreturn to a subsistence economy. But I seriously like the simplicity of both designs

Something like this

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/20/africa/ox-delivers-electric-off-road-truck-rwanda-spc-intl/index.html

More so if we go further down the brexit road andcreturn to a subsistence economy. But I seriously like the simplicity of both designs

That looks more the part.. Mini electric Unimog. I, d have one.. Sounds fantastic.. Well the write up does. Guess truck is silent. Gordon Murray has designed some great cars.Worked for McClaren and had a massive input on their road cars.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/20/africa/ox-delivers-electric-off-road-truck-rwanda-spc-intl/index.html

More so if we go further down the brexit road andcreturn to a subsistence economy. But I seriously like the simplicity of both designs

 

A good EV design is no use without electricity and Africa's supplies are appallingly unreliable**. That's why they use unassisted bicycles as both taxis and for goods deliveries. Many parts of India are as bad, so these third world countries will be the last to switch to EVs.

 

**Afrobarometer survey findings from 34 African countries show little progress in electrification. While experiences vary by country, on average access to a power grid improved by just 4 percentage points over the past decade. And even where connections to the grid exist, unreliable supply remains a major problem.

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A good EV design is no use without electricity and Africa's supplies are appallingly unreliable**. That's why they use unassisted bicycles as both taxis and for goods deliveries. Many parts of India are as bad, so these third world countries will be the last to switch to EVs.

 

**Afrobarometer survey findings from 34 African countries show little progress in electrification. While experiences vary by country, on average access to a power grid improved by just 4 percentage points over the past decade. And even where connections to the grid exist, unreliable supply remains a major problem.

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Indeed, and having lived and worked in Africa I know how much that can be linked to corruption, siphoning of funds from state owned electricity providers (not least through say theft of coal etc). Then sometimes an odd familiar paradox as green decentralised generation of electricity is deliberately prevented by some governments because it would kill off the goose laying all of those lovely corrupt eggs in offshore accounts in tax havens.

But what does one do faced with this? Force the workers to struggle on on heavy old bicycles in failed states or try to change things?

A good EV design is no use without electricity and Africa's supplies are appallingly unreliable**. That's why they use unassisted bicycles as both taxis and for goods deliveries. Many parts of India are as bad, so these third world countries will be the last to switch to EVs.

 

**Afrobarometer survey findings from 34 African countries show little progress in electrification. While experiences vary by country, on average access to a power grid improved by just 4 percentage points over the past decade. And even where connections to the grid exist, unreliable supply remains a major problem.

.

Yep, any country would have to be completely barmy to put their faith in electrtification before having required infrastructure. Mmm. Then again, thinking about it..

Yep, any country would have to be completely barmy to put their faith in electrtification before having required infrastructure. Mmm. Then again, thinking about it..

 

How many times do I have to explain we in Britain are not short of electricity for e-cars? It will be well over a decade from now before we will have made and supplied enough EVs to use our present night time surplus of current, and overnight charging is the dominant form of ev charging of cars and vans, 83% of it.

 

The reason it will take so long to get more EVs are delays due to supplies of the materials, making EVs is a slower process, and not least of all the very high prices of EVs for many years yet means they will struggle to find the former numbers of customers that ICs enjoyed. Especially since all this is happening as the country is getting poorer over at least one or two decades yet. Even our politicians admit that and we all see it at first hand as the bills arrive.

 

And by the time that well over a decade has passed our wind and solar generation capacity will have grown even greater and Hinckley Point will be onstream.

 

Problem? What problem.

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Edited March 7, 20233 yr by flecc

But what does one do faced with this? Force the workers to struggle on on heavy old bicycles in failed states or try to change things?

 

Of course we try to change things there, as we have been trying for well over half a century

 

But where change is concerned we are many times better at failing than succeeding.

 

And of course there is the irony that while we want to get them off bicycles and into motor vehicles, we are trying hard to get ourselves doing exactly the opposite!

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Something like this

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/20/africa/ox-delivers-electric-off-road-truck-rwanda-spc-intl/index.html

More so if we go further down the brexit road andcreturn to a subsistence economy. But I seriously like the simplicity of both designs

 

The business model of that trust is unviable and will sink without a trace, but it's a great design - the climate crisis demands vehicles as well designed but open source (and no secret sauce) available to all, future-proofed for new battery chemistries.

The business model of that trust is unviable and will sink without a trace, but it's a great design - the climate crisis demands vehicles as well designed but open source (and no secret sauce) available to all, future-proofed for new battery chemistries.

Yes and having built an ebike (which has via generic kits become open source in effect) I cannot imagine it can be that complicated. But new ev manufacturers (including alleged open source) all seem to want to emulate musk's approach to twitter

https://www.openmotors.co/evplatform/

How many times do I have to explain we in Britain are not short of electricity for e-cars? It will be well over a decade from now before we will have made and supplied enough EVs to use our present night time surplus of current, and overnight charging is the dominant form of ev charging of cars and vans, 83% of it.

 

The reason it will take so long to get more EVs are delays due to supplies of the materials, making EVs is a slower process, and not least of all the very high prices of EVs for many years yet means they will struggle to find the former numbers of customers that ICs enjoyed. Especially since all this is happening as the country is getting poorer over at least one or two decades yet. Even our politicians admit that and we all see it at first hand as the bills arrive.

 

And by the time that well over a decade has passed our wind and solar generation capacity will have grown even greater and Hinckley Point will be onstream.

 

Problem? What problem.

.

It's nothing to do with total amounts of electricity (at the moment)..

Open your eyes Flecc. There are massive issues with our infrastructure regarding charging stations, well lack of and maintenance. So much so that they are now affecting EV sales and second handf values. Government need to sort it before it stalls our progress. Getting to chargers at this stage with so few on road shouldn't be a problem.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/21606960/find-my-ev-with-no-batery/

Another made up story. Even if rare, which it appears not to be, it just shouldn't happen. Why hasn't the airport got this all sorted before now.

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by Zlatan

It's nothing to do with total amounts of electricity (at the moment)..

Open your eyes Flecc. There are massive issues with our infrastructure regarding charging stations, well lack of and maintenance. So much so that they are now affecting EV sales and second handf values. Government need to sort it before it stalls our progress. Getting to chargers at this stage with so few on road shouldn't be a problem.

[ATTACH type=full" alt="Screenshot_20230307_144211.jpg]50568[/ATTACH]

Well as an ev owner I'd say the business model for owning an ev collapsed completely with the energy crisis (yes, why don't we all pay 35k for a heavy fiesta that is a royal PITA to fuel, very slowly, at the same or higher cost to stop greta from throwing another hissy fit).

But this state of affairs has a great deal to do with consecutive conservative, neoconservative governments that sold off energy production and supply to offshore companies that are now gleefully profiteering, fleecing the ironically brexit voting public. Much like all our other assets and infrastructure (water, railways). There's many horses there that have irrevocably bolted. No future uk govt will have the wherewithal to get these services back in public ownership, or to fix them. We'll have to wait for the EU to sort it out for us once our little privateering initiative has, fully, run out of steam

Couldn't agree more.

And in mean time the inevitable progression towards EV over next decade is going to be fraught and full of stories such as these. Gatwick Airport must have thousands and thousands of parked cars and how many serviceable fast chargers on site or nearby?

There is no planning, cohesiom or thought gone into this change. Its only going to get worse, especially as the ICE ban really starts to bite.

A friend of mine has both a Tesla (which he loves) and a Transit sized electric van he uses for recreation (it always has either mtb, motor bike or windsurf kit in it.)

He thought the van would be perfect for trips to coast (round trip 150 miles), claimed range 260, he reckons on 210 ish).

Everytime he's been to coast in it recently he's had to go home without heater on, because its cold.!? There should already be a plethora of chargers on his route home. He leased van but reckons it would have cost £52k.He's trying to get out the lease agreement early to go back to a Transit diesel.

And, now my camper van faces £10 a day charge for going through Sheffield. No problem, I'll drive the extra 10 miles to avoid it. That helps the environment.

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by Zlatan

It's nothing to do with total amounts of electricity (at the moment)..

Open your eyes Flecc. There are massive issues with our infrastructure regarding charging stations, well lack of and maintenance. So much so that they are now affecting EV sales and second handf values. Government need to sort it before it stalls our progress. Getting to chargers at this stage with so few on road shouldn't be a problem.

[ATTACH=full]50568[/ATTACH]

 

My eyes are the open ones.

 

I sometimes wonder why I bother, I've covered all this before in answers to you. There are inevitably twerps buying EVs when they are totally unsuited for what they want to do.

 

Let them suffer their foolishness. Meanwhile, the shortage of EVs with year long waiting lists means all they are doing is depriving others much more suited to ownership.

 

Half of all the cars on the road almost never travel any real distance. For starters all the household second and even third cars, getting shopping and running the kids to school and activities etc. That is a big enough market to absorb all the e-car production for decade yet and they are the ones who charge at home all the time, making that 83%.

 

The problem of on road chargers is greatly exaggerated due to the aforementioned twerps. There's no problem for those like me who do their homework. Before buying I checked out the two longer routes I would want to take and confirmed that the number of nearby alternative charge points in case of failures was more than adequate. In fact I have never found a failed charge point yet in five years.

 

There are certainly many routes not yet adequately covered and some areas where charge point failures and even sabotage are commonplace, the latter curiously mostly in the north. But caveat emptor, anyone who buys an e-car without first checking this out is a prize twerp. As are all those buying EVs when they have no idea what routes they will be driving. For the moment they should stick to IC or plug-in hybrids.

 

Meanwhile, contrary to the popular alarmist story, charge points are increasing at record rates and much of the country is well covered already. Quote:

 

"At the end of February 2023, there were 38982 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 23066 charging locations. This represents a 33% increase in the total number of charging devices since February 2022."

 

Up a third in one year. Compare that to the remaining 6000 ic fuel stations left now, EVs having nearly four times as many public locations to charge.

.

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by flecc

There is no planning, cohesiom or thought gone into this change. Its only going to get worse, especially as the ICE ban really starts to bite.

 

Now you really aren't thinking, there will be no bite. ICE ban on buying starts 2030 or 2035 for hybrids. Average car life in the UK 23 years. Do you really think there won't be enough charging points everywhere by 2058 after another 35 years of increasing their numbers at up to 33% a year!!!

 

A friend of mine has - - - - - a Transit sized electric van he uses for recreation (it always has either mtb, motor bike or windsurf kit in it.)

He thought the van would be perfect for trips to coast (round trip 150 miles), claimed range 260, he reckons on 210 ish).

Everytime he's been to coast in it recently he's had to go home without heater on, because its cold.!?

 

He really didn't do his research did he? If he had he'd have known range could as much as halve in cold weather. If he had he'd have known there weren't enough charge points. That van was just unsuitable for what he was planning.

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Edited March 7, 20233 yr by flecc

Now you really aren't thinking, there will be no bite. ICE ban on buying starts 2030 or 2035 for hybrids. Average car life in the UK 23 years. Do you really think there won't be enough charging points everywhere by 2058 after another 35 years of increasing their numbers at up to 33% a year!!!

 

 

 

He really didn't do his research did he? If he had he'd have known range could as much as halve in cold weather. If he had he'd have known there weren't enough charge points. That van was just unsuitable for what he was planning.

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You really are missing the point flecc. We don't need charging stations in 2035 we need them now.

Many people are already perfect customers for changing to EV, they should be the pioneers demonstrating the proposed system will work. My mate with the van is perfect example. Just retired, still very active, lots of disposable income and wants to take active "green" steps. Hence the electric van,which should have worked perfectly,had he had a charging station available now, not in 2035 when millions want them.

He isn't using van for work, isn't in a massive rush and would happily charge van up at coast or call in and have a coffee/meal/drink on way home, so he can use heater.. But can't.

Early years should be the easy ones to cope with, at moment he is only one, in a group of perhaps 80 of us who sail at coast, who is trying electric van. . What message do we pick up from him. Even forking out £52k on an EV it will not get you home in comfort/security. Not because he is anxious, but because there isn't the infrastructure to get him home.. Come on Flecc, a 150 mile rerturn journey is problematic isn't a good advert, no matter what you think is going to happen. Had it worked for him, I, d be thinking of doing same. No chance now.

Think you bought Boris' lies about government investment. Gatwick Airport no fast chargers?? Give up Flecc. Its a shambles and you know it.

We aren't talking about some wilds up in Scotland here Flecc. It's between Sheffield /Doncaster and Hull/Bridlington. And hius EV ain't very good for it. Brilliant.

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by Zlatan

You really are missing the point flecc. We don't need charging stations in 2035 we need them now.

Many people are already perfect customers for changing to EV, they should be the pioneers demonstrating the proposed system will work. My mate with the van is perfect example. Just retired, still very active, lots of disposable income and wants to take active "green" steps. Hence the electric van,which should have worked perfectly,had he had a charging station available now, not in 2035 when millions want them.

He isn't using van for work, isn't in a massive rush and would happily charge van up at coast or call in and have a coffee/meal/drink on way home, so he can use heater.. But can't.

Early years should be the easy ones to cope with, at moment he is only one, in a group of perhaps 80 of us who sail at coast, who is trying electric van. . What message do we pick up from him. Even forking out £52k on an EV it will not get you home in comfort/security. Not because he is anxious, but because there isn't the infrastructure to get him home.. Come on Flecc, a 150 mile rerturn journey is problematic isn't a good advert, no matter what you think is going to happen. Had it worked for him, I, d be thinking of doing same. No chance now.

Think you bought Boris' lies about government investment. Gatwick Airport no fast chargers?? Give up Flecc. Its a shambles and you know it.

We aren't talking about some wilds up in Scotland here Flecc. It's between Sheffield /Doncaster and Hull/Bridlington. And hius EV ain't very good for it. Brilliant.

 

I'm not missing the point. You are, many points in fact:

 

Most of the investment has to come from the private sector, so they install the points where most of the traffic will be and where people are affluent enough to have EVs. That is essential to get some return, though none of them are actually making any money on charging at present. It's all costs and they are not charities since they have shareholders to pay.

 

Governments and local authorities are also investing, but as surely you know they are limited in that. The 2008 crash happened, Covid happened, the magic money tree doesn't have an infinite crop and many things are more vital than the luxury of charge points in remote locations which will only be rarely used.

 

In fact miracles are happening, you saw the figures:

 

"At the end of February 2023, there were 38982 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 23066 charging locations. This represents a 33% increase in the total number of charging devices since February 2022."

 

Up a third in one year. Compare that to the remaining 6000 ic fuel stations left now, EVs having nearly four times as many public locations to charge as ICE have to fill up."

.

I'm not missing the point. You are, many points in fact:

 

Most of the investment has to come from the private sector, so they install the points where most of the traffic will be and where people are affluent enough to have EVs. That is essential to get some return, though none of them are actually making any money on charging at present. It's all costs and they are not charities since they have shareholders to pay.

 

Governments and local authorities are also investing, but as surely you know they are limited in that. The 2008 crash happened, Covid happened, the magic money tree doesn't have an infinite crop and many things are more vital than the luxury of charge points in remote locations which will only be rarely used.

 

In fact miracles are happening, you saw the figures:

 

"At the end of February 2023, there were 38982 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 23066 charging locations. This represents a 33% increase in the total number of charging devices since February 2022."

 

Up a third in one year. Compare that to the remaining 6000 ic fuel stations left now, EVs having nearly four times as many public locations to charge as ICE have to fill up."

.

Sorry Flecc, you are very much missing the point.

Whem motoring was in its infancy motorists could, even then, take measures to make sure they stood a great chance of getting home. Have a sound knowledge of mechanics involved, ability to repair puncture, or change a wheel and carry a few spare gallons fuel. Watch cars on London Brighton run.. Invariably a couple of brass 2 gallon containers full of petrol.

As years passed market forces and smell of profit proliferated the number of garages so everybody could get fuel and repairs, almost everywhere.

Unfortunately this change over is different. EVs do not have ability to carry a few gallons of essentially unneeded fuel. They are absolutely dependant on the infrastructure in the first place, and without which this expected boon will either never happen or it will be an utter shambles. We can't rely on market forces to supply the charging points, it must come from government and well before the cars themselves hit the market. If not, we will see exactly what we see now. Poor experiences, folk driving without heaters, taking 7 hours to do a 40 minute journey.

I don't understand you on this Flecc. Nobody has seen through Boris and this government better than you. You said before anyone what a shambles Boris was, especially his dabblings with transport, bikes and buses.

Yet, here we are at the start of this revolution with pitifully poor electrical charging infrastructure and what there is dependent on market forces, with a free for all regarding pricing.

Government should have planned for getting chargers everywhere last year and put in place price caps on charging.So what if they sit unused for a while.

We can not rely on market forces to supply charging. It must be done centrally by government, done before they are needed and charging must be at fair cost. If not it this massive experiment could easily fail, or certainly be slowed down by decades.

I, d be looking forward to changing over. Its simply not realistic at moment, I wonder if it ever will be and it already should be.

Infrastructure is lagging way behind demand, it should be other way around bearing in mind the obvious issues with electric travel.

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by Zlatan

We aren't talking about some wilds up in Scotland here Flecc. It's between Sheffield /Doncaster and Hull/Bridlington. And hius EV ain't very good for it. Brilliant.

 

Try pulling the other one, it's got bells on it. And the quote of 25% charge points out of action was utter bunkum. That has never ever happened.

 

Below is the Zap map of Sheffield, Doncaster, Hull and Bridlington. Every charge point with pink on it is a rapid charger with the CCS connector that the e-Transit uses. There's so many of them it's a wonder your mate hasn't crashed into one:

 

 

And anyway Sheffield - Bridlington is only just over 80 miles.

.

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by flecc

Sorry Flecc, you are very much missing the point.

Whem motoring was in its infancy motorists could, even then, take measures to make sure they stood a great chance of getting home. Have a sound knowledge of mechanics involved, ability to repair puncture, or change a wheel and carry a few spare gallons fuel. Watch cars on London Brighton run.. Invariably a couple of brass 2 gallon containers full of petrol.

As years passed market forces and smell of profit proliferated the number of garages so everybody could get fuel and repairs, almost everywhere.

Unfortunately this change over is different. EVs do not have ability to carry a few gallons of essentially unneeded fuel. They are absolutely dependant on the infrastructure in the first place, and without which this expected boon will either never happen or it will be an utter shambles. We can't rely on market forces to supply the charging points, it must come from government and well before the cars themselves hit the market. If not, we will see exactly what we see now. Poor experiences, folk driving without heaters, taking 7 hours to do a 40 minute journey.

I don't understand you on this Flecc. Nobody has seen through Boris and this government better than you. You said before anyone what a shambles Boris was, especially his dabblings with transport, bikes and buses.

Yet, here we are at the start of this revolution with pitifully poor electrical charging infrastructure and what there is dependent on market forces, with a free for all regarding pricing.

Government should have planned for getting chargers everywhere last year and put in place price caps on charging.So what if they sit unused for a while.

We can not rely on market forces to supply charging. It must be done centrally by government, done before they are needed and charging must be at fair cost. If not it this massive experiment could easily fail, or certainly be slowed down by decades.

I, d be looking forward to changing over. Its simply not realistic and already should be

 

Nonsense, what sort of unrealistic fantasy world do you live in? As my last post showed there are plenty of chargers and proportionally to the only 600K fully e-cars the supply is OTT in much of the country.

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Nonsense, what sort of unrealistic fantasy world do you live in? As my last post showed there are plenty of chargers and proportionally to the only 600K fully e-cars the supply is OTT in much of the country.

.

Flecc

We will never arrive at sufficient charge points in all areas relying on profit to drive their distribution.

Even charging exorbitant prices a charging point makes £50 per hour.?? (guess)

A petrol pump around £1000 per hour?

Whilstever country relies on market forces to fit, run, maintain points we will always be way over charged for electricity and or demand will way exceed points we have.

It's obvious. It can't be any other way.

Points need to be fitted, and run by CEGB organised by government, not Shell, not Lidl, and not BP.

They all must make profit, there isn't enough of it to put points where needed.

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by Zlatan