The flatpack EV: how Luvly is aiming to revolutionise the micro-EV market

[flecc]

You really are missing the point flecc. We don't need charging stations in 2035 we need them now.
Many people are already perfect customers for changing to EV, they should be the pioneers demonstrating the proposed system will work. My mate with the van is perfect example. Just retired, still very active, lots of disposable income and wants to take active "green" steps. Hence the electric van,which should have worked perfectly,had he had a charging station available now, not in 2035 when millions want them.
He isn't using van for work, isn't in a massive rush and would happily charge van up at coast or call in and have a coffee/meal/drink on way home, so he can use heater.. But can't.
Early years should be the easy ones to cope with, at moment he is only one, in a group of perhaps 80 of us who sail at coast, who is trying electric van. . What message do we pick up from him. Even forking out £52k on an EV it will not get you home in comfort/security. Not because he is anxious, but because there isn't the infrastructure to get him home.. Come on Flecc, a 150 mile rerturn journey is problematic isn't a good advert, no matter what you think is going to happen. Had it worked for him, I, d be thinking of doing same. No chance now.
Think you bought Boris' lies about government investment. Gatwick Airport no fast chargers?? Give up Flecc. Its a shambles and you know it.
We aren't talking about some wilds up in Scotland here Flecc. It's between Sheffield /Doncaster and Hull/Bridlington. And hius EV ain't very good for it. Brilliant.

I'm not missing the point. You are, many points in fact:

Most of the investment has to come from the private sector, so they install the points where most of the traffic will be and where people are affluent enough to have EVs. That is essential to get some return, though none of them are actually making any money on charging at present. It's all costs and they are not charities since they have shareholders to pay.

Governments and local authorities are also investing, but as surely you know they are limited in that. The 2008 crash happened, Covid happened, the magic money tree doesn't have an infinite crop and many things are more vital than the luxury of charge points in remote locations which will only be rarely used.

In fact miracles are happening, you saw the figures:

"At the end of February 2023, there were 38982 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 23066 charging locations. This represents a 33% increase in the total number of charging devices since February 2022."

Up a third in one year. Compare that to the remaining 6000 ic fuel stations left now, EVs having nearly four times as many public locations to charge as ICE have to fill up."
.

 

[Zlatan]

I'm not missing the point. You are, many points in fact:

Most of the investment has to come from the private sector, so they install the points where most of the traffic will be and where people are affluent enough to have EVs. That is essential to get some return, though none of them are actually making any money on charging at present. It's all costs and they are not charities since they have shareholders to pay.

Governments and local authorities are also investing, but as surely you know they are limited in that. The 2008 crash happened, Covid happened, the magic money tree doesn't have an infinite crop and many things are more vital than the luxury of charge points in remote locations which will only be rarely used.

In fact miracles are happening, you saw the figures:

"At the end of February 2023, there were 38982 electric vehicle charging points across the UK, across 23066 charging locations. This represents a 33% increase in the total number of charging devices since February 2022."

Up a third in one year. Compare that to the remaining 6000 ic fuel stations left now, EVs having nearly four times as many public locations to charge as ICE have to fill up."
.

Sorry Flecc, you are very much missing the point.
Whem motoring was in its infancy motorists could, even then, take measures to make sure they stood a great chance of getting home. Have a sound knowledge of mechanics involved, ability to repair puncture, or change a wheel and carry a few spare gallons fuel. Watch cars on London Brighton run.. Invariably a couple of brass 2 gallon containers full of petrol.
As years passed market forces and smell of profit proliferated the number of garages so everybody could get fuel and repairs, almost everywhere.
Unfortunately this change over is different. EVs do not have ability to carry a few gallons of essentially unneeded fuel. They are absolutely dependant on the infrastructure in the first place, and without which this expected boon will either never happen or it will be an utter shambles. We can't rely on market forces to supply the charging points, it must come from government and well before the cars themselves hit the market. If not, we will see exactly what we see now. Poor experiences, folk driving without heaters, taking 7 hours to do a 40 minute journey.
I don't understand you on this Flecc. Nobody has seen through Boris and this government better than you. You said before anyone what a shambles Boris was, especially his dabblings with transport, bikes and buses.
Yet, here we are at the start of this revolution with pitifully poor electrical charging infrastructure and what there is dependent on market forces, with a free for all regarding pricing.
Government should have planned for getting chargers everywhere last year and put in place price caps on charging.So what if they sit unused for a while.
We can not rely on market forces to supply charging. It must be done centrally by government, done before they are needed and charging must be at fair cost. If not it this massive experiment could easily fail, or certainly be slowed down by decades.
I, d be looking forward to changing over. Its simply not realistic at moment, I wonder if it ever will be and it already should be.
Infrastructure is lagging way behind demand, it should be other way around bearing in mind the obvious issues with electric travel.

 

[flecc]

We aren't talking about some wilds up in Scotland here Flecc. It's between Sheffield /Doncaster and Hull/Bridlington. And hius EV ain't very good for it. Brilliant.

Try pulling the other one, it's got bells on it. And the quote of 25% charge points out of action was utter bunkum. That has never ever happened.

Below is the Zap map of Sheffield, Doncaster, Hull and Bridlington. Every charge point with pink on it is a rapid charger with the CCS connector that the e-Transit uses. There's so many of them it's a wonder your mate hasn't crashed into one:



And anyway Sheffield - Bridlington is only just over 80 miles.
.

 

[flecc]

Sorry Flecc, you are very much missing the point.
Whem motoring was in its infancy motorists could, even then, take measures to make sure they stood a great chance of getting home. Have a sound knowledge of mechanics involved, ability to repair puncture, or change a wheel and carry a few spare gallons fuel. Watch cars on London Brighton run.. Invariably a couple of brass 2 gallon containers full of petrol.
As years passed market forces and smell of profit proliferated the number of garages so everybody could get fuel and repairs, almost everywhere.
Unfortunately this change over is different. EVs do not have ability to carry a few gallons of essentially unneeded fuel. They are absolutely dependant on the infrastructure in the first place, and without which this expected boon will either never happen or it will be an utter shambles. We can't rely on market forces to supply the charging points, it must come from government and well before the cars themselves hit the market. If not, we will see exactly what we see now. Poor experiences, folk driving without heaters, taking 7 hours to do a 40 minute journey.
I don't understand you on this Flecc. Nobody has seen through Boris and this government better than you. You said before anyone what a shambles Boris was, especially his dabblings with transport, bikes and buses.
Yet, here we are at the start of this revolution with pitifully poor electrical charging infrastructure and what there is dependent on market forces, with a free for all regarding pricing.
Government should have planned for getting chargers everywhere last year and put in place price caps on charging.So what if they sit unused for a while.
We can not rely on market forces to supply charging. It must be done centrally by government, done before they are needed and charging must be at fair cost. If not it this massive experiment could easily fail, or certainly be slowed down by decades.
I, d be looking forward to changing over. Its simply not realistic and already should be

Nonsense, what sort of unrealistic fantasy world do you live in? As my last post showed there are plenty of chargers and proportionally to the only 600K fully e-cars the supply is OTT in much of the country.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Nonsense, what sort of unrealistic fantasy world do you live in? As my last post showed there are plenty of chargers and proportionally to the only 600K fully e-cars the supply is OTT in much of the country.
.

Flecc
We will never arrive at sufficient charge points in all areas relying on profit to drive their distribution.
Even charging exorbitant prices a charging point makes £50 per hour.?? (guess)
A petrol pump around £1000 per hour?
Whilstever country relies on market forces to fit, run, maintain points we will always be way over charged for electricity and or demand will way exceed points we have.
It's obvious. It can't be any other way.
Points need to be fitted, and run by CEGB organised by government, not Shell, not Lidl, and not BP.
They all must make profit, there isn't enough of it to put points where needed.

 

[flecc]

View attachment 50577

Driffield is a small town, 13k population with six rapid chargers. What's wrong with that since I doubt they have that many e-cars and probably have home chargers if they do. So those six public charger are for visitors, and how many visitors will 0.002% of the country have at any one time?

And what has that to do with Sheffield to Bridlington.

Plus this correction to that 25% nonsense:

"How many electric vehicle chargers are broken? Channel 4's investigative programme, Dispatches, found that over 5.2% of the 26,000 public EV chargers they looked into were broken."
.

 

[Zlatan]

Driffield is a small town, 13k population with six rapid chargers. What's wrong with that since I doubt they have that many e-cars and probably have home chargers if they do. So those six public charger are for visitors, and how many visitors will 0.002% of the country have at any one time?

And what has that to do with Sheffield to Bridlington.

Plus this correction to that 25% nonsense:

"How many electric vehicle chargers are broken? Channel 4's investigative programme, Dispatches, found that over 5.2% of the 26,000 public EV chargers they looked into were broken."
.

It's where I usually fill up. It's between Sheffield and Brid. Would be a perfect place for a fast charger. Think I, ll buy a generator, stick it on trailer and start selling electricity. At prices being charged there is money to ve made with a mobile charging outfit.
But, I deleted it. But point is, there are 2 working 50kw charging points working in Driffield. The garage there can sell £3k of fuel (?) in time taken for Lidl yo sell me £50 of e.. It doesnt work flecc. The numbers don't stack up.

 

[flecc]

It's where I usually fill up. It's between Sheffield and Brid. Would be a perfect place for a fast charger. Think I, ll buy a generator, stick it on trailer and start selling electricity. At prices being charged there is money to ve made with a mobile charging outfit.
But, I deleted it. But point is, there are 2 working 50kw charging points working in Driffield. The garage there can sell £3k of fuel (?) in time taken for Lidl yo sell me £50 of e.. It doesnt work flecc. The numbers don't stack up.

That is just silly, saying it is usually where you fill up, that is with an ICE car. Changing to an EV means just that, change, such as changing how and where you fill up.

Or if e-cars don't suit you at the moment, don't buy one yet. By 2030 you will be much better suited with many more charge points and longer range EV models. Or just buy a new ICE then and drive it until 2050.

At the 33% per annum increase rate, Driffield will have 14 rapid points charging at between 100 and 350 kW rates by 2030.

Can't you see you are making an invalid argument, there is no problem for anyone, now or future.
.

 

[Zlatan]

That is just silly, saying it is usually where you fill up, that is with an ICE car. Changing to an EV means just that, change, such as changing how and where you fill up.

Or if e-cars don't suit you at the moment, don't buy one yet. By 2030 you will be much better suited with many more charge points and longer range EV models. Or just buy a new ICE then and drive it until 2050.

At the 33% per annum increase rate, Driffield will have 14 rapid points charging at between 100 and 350 kW rates by 2030.

Can't you see you are making an invalid argument, there is no problem for anyone, now or future.
.

At the moment we are in situation akin to building electrical railways, we, ve built the lines but we'll put the power in when trains arrive..(and make a profit from them)

We should already be at juncture where its feasible and desireable for such as myself to go electric. Sadly, because we are awaiting market forces to drive the development of charging points it simply is neither.
Your argument that somehow things will get better is wrong. We will be in a catch 22 situation... Points will be fitted when it's profitable but to get so cars must be there first (and getting charged ludicrous amounts)
Charging points should already be in everywhere, then as car numbers increase so does the number of charge points in all those places increase.
It's cart before horse at moment. The logistics need to be there to attract the folk in first place.
The reverse is happening at moment, rather than being attracted many are being put off.
And BTW, Shell are charging 85p per kwh on fast chargers (I think 100kw)Tesco from 27p to 50p. (cheaper is for 20kw,50p on 50kw). Why is the slower electricity cheaper?
No price cap, no cohesion, no plan. Just profit.. It won't work.

 

[soundwave]

At the moment we are in situation akin to building electrical railways, we, ve built the lines but we'll put the power in when trains arrive..(and make a profit from them)

We should already be at juncture where its feasible and desireable for such as myself to go electric. Sadly, because we are awaiting market forces to drive the development of charging points it simply is neither.
Your argument that somehow things will get better is wrong. We will be in a catch 22 situation... Points will be fitted when it's profitable but to get so cars must be there first (and getting charged ludicrous amounts)
Charging points should already be in everywhere, then as car numbers increase so does the number of charge points in all those places increase.
It's cart before horse at moment. The logistics need to be there to attract the folk in first place.
The reverse is happening at moment, rather than being attracted many are being put off.
And BTW, Shell are charging 85p per kwh on fast chargers (I think 100kw)Tesco from 27p to 50p. (cheaper is for 20kw,50p on 50kw). Why is the slower electricity cheaper?
No price cap, no cohesion, no plan. Just profit.. It won't work.

 

[guerney]

Yes and having built an ebike (which has via generic kits become open source in effect) I cannot imagine it can be that complicated.

Having read various threads over the past couple of years, I agree - car e-drive systems don't have to be proprietary and intentionally complex.

new ev manufacturers (including alleged open source) all seem to want to emulate musk's approach to twitter
https://www.openmotors.co/evplatform/

... despite themselves because they all attend business schools which teach the same concepts, which Musk seems to be ignoring. In fact, I believe he's doing his utmost to make Earth hell in order to make moving to Mars more attractive. We can't see approaching extinction event asteroids anymore because of his blasted space graffiti.

 

[guerney]

Yes and having built an ebike (which has via generic kits become open source in effect) I cannot imagine it can be that complicated. But new ev manufacturers (including alleged open source) all seem to want to emulate musk's approach to twitter
https://www.openmotors.co/evplatform/

Turning ourselves into EVs through body modification is the future. It would remove the need for costly crash testing.

 

[soundwave]

Turning ourselves into EVs through body modification is the future. It would remove the need for costly crash testing.

ill be a tank and a plane

 

[flecc]

We should already be at juncture where its feasible and desireable for such as myself to go electric.

No, because we simply cannot supply enough cars. It's not like e-scooters, it will take at least twenty years from now to replace all our ICE cars, so there's no point in attracting everyone when we cannot remotely fulfil.

It's cart before horse at moment. The logistics need to be there to attract the folk in first place.
The reverse is happening at moment, rather than being attracted many are being put off.

Good, as I said just above.

And BTW, Shell are charging 85p per kwh on fast chargers (I think 100kw)Tesco from 27p to 50p. (cheaper is for 20kw,50p on 50kw). Why is the slower electricity cheaper?

Because the slower electric chargers and supply are already there with few using them. The new faster ones not only cost more but very much more has to be paid to the network supplier for the installation of the greater capacity infrastructure to supply the rapid and ultra rapid units. UK Power Networks quoted me nearly £5000 just for the feed to the back of the garage with me still having to spend well over a thousand pounds more for the rest. And that was just for the home Fast charger supply (3 or 7 kW). Those from 22 to 50 kW are called Rapid chargers, above that Ultra Rapid (100 to 350 kW) and need very high current cables.

No price cap, no cohesion, no plan. Just profit. It won't work.

As I've shown above, it is working perfectly and it is planned, supplying all the full e-cars we can actually supply. That's around 200,000 cars a year with 160,000 home chargers and over 10,000 public chargers added each year currently.

It's a sellers market, unable to supply so not needing to attract more customers. And of course it's for profit, do you think the world is just a giant charity? Profit is why your Hargreaves Lansdown exists.

Also please remember that the government wouldn't want us all to switch anyway, even if we could. That would be a disaster for the treasury and the economy. The government target is for net zero in 2050, so that is when they want us all in EVs with all the ICE cars scrapped by then. With ICE car life of 23 years and the planned generating growth we should meet that target comfortably, proving it's all working perfectly.

Finally, what if we did as you advocate and the technology advances? We'd be stuck witb 200,000 chargers either no use or too slow. That has already happened once which is why we have all the idle 3 kW public chargers that nobody wants to use because they are too slow on today's cars, all a waste of money.
.

 

[soundwave]

my sister could have got a electric car if she waited 2 years for one and could have a charger fitted for free but the guy that had to fix next doors consumer box had to cut power to all 4 houses to make it safe to replace it but said about a car charger and said we could have 1 but then the other 3 houses cant as the cable cant handle the power as these are pre fab and all 4 run off the same cable

he said the hole road needs digging up again as it is all so old so it is just not as simple as getting one installed let alone one that can do 350kw and fully charge a car in 20 mins as it would need a direct link to the sub station.

put the cables in the road like a phone that can charge wireless and pay per mile

 

[Zlatan]

No, because we simply cannot supply enough cars. It's not like e-scooters, it will take at least twenty years from now to replace all our ICE cars, so there's no point in attracting everyone when we cannot remotely fulfil.



Good, as I said just above.



Because the slower electric chargers and supply are already there with few using them. The new faster ones not only cost more but very much more has to be paid to the network supplier for the installation of the greater capacity infrastructure to supply the rapid and ultra rapid units. UK Power Networks quoted me nearly £5000 just for the feed to the back of the garage with me still having to spend well over a thousand pounds more for the rest. And that was just for the home Fast charger supply (3 or 7 kW). Those from 22 to 50 kW are called Rapid chargers, above that Ultra Rapid (100 to 350 kW) and need very high current cables.



As I've shown above, it is working perfectly and it is planned, supplying all the full e-cars we can actually supply. That's around 200,000 cars a year with 160,000 home chargers and over 10,000 public chargers added each year currently.

It's a sellers market, unable to supply so not needing to attract more customers. And of course it's for profit, do you think the world is just a giant charity? Profit is why your Hargreaves Lansdown exists.

Also please remember that the government wouldn't want us all to switch anyway, even if we could. That would be a disaster for the treasury and the economy. The government target is for net zero in 2050, so that is when they want us all in EVs with all the ICE cars scrapped by then. With ICE car life of 23 years and the planned generating growth we should meet that target comfortably, proving it's all working perfectly.

Finally, what if we did as you advocate and the technology advances? We'd be stuck witb 200,000 chargers either no use or too slow. That has already happened once which is why we have all the idle 3 kW public chargers that nobody wants to use because they are too slow on today's cars, all a waste of money.
.

I agree, re low current chargers. Utterly pointless and were to start with.
So discount all sub 20kwh chargers and then recount your claim of masses of them available.
Then rather than count the chargers examine the mileage dispensed by them.
We hear all the time about garages closing and charging points going in somewhere.. But look at the real situation.
I have choice of 4 garages going out of Rotherham.(towards M18). Between them that's 44 pumps. There are 2 charging points. (both at same garage) Each can dispense approx 200 miles per hour. (depending on vehicle its going in but roughy 50kwh represents 200 miles? )
Each of those 44 pumps can (and does) dispense 200 miles in 5 minutes.
So each pump is equivalent to more than 10 charging points.???
We haven't even scratched the surface with the number required.
We need a massive improvement in battery density. (which will come)
We need a massive improvement in transfer rates, which probably wont, and even taking into account home charging we still need thousands and thousands of charging points, and placed at logical places. Otherwise the EV will just be more problematic than desireable for decades.
There just isn't any planning around placement of chargers. They are springing up where not needed. During war Germans and Alies buried petrol in the desert, where they thought it would be needed. We, re putting it at our doorsteps. I don't need a charger in my home town, I would have my own. It's needed perhaps 30 miles out from major connobations... Logistics, and for all reasons you, ve pointed out, are completely different to fuel stations. No planning, no joined up thinking, no cohesion.
I know let's stick a charger in Lidl. Somebody should have planned this out, there should already be charging stations at strategic points. Airports wouldn't be a bad start? Rings drawn 30 miles around Cities, and put some there. Then to towns and popular destinations. A real Network, not this stupid hodge podge we are seeing at moment?

The coming EV batteries will sweep away fossil fuel transport, with or without net zero

Read this exclusive extract from our Economic Intelligence newsletter and sign up at the bottom of the article to get it every Tuesday

www.telegraph.co.uk

But this, much as its fantastic, will mean folk sat at charging stations longer..
Really can't understand your negativity on this Flecc. We need a network of charging stations and quickly.

 

[flecc]

I agree, re low current chargers. Utterly pointless and were to start with.
So discount all sub 20kwh chargers and then recount your claim of masses of them available.
Then rather than count the chargers examine the mileage dispensed by them.
We hear all the time about garages closing and charging points going in somewhere.. But look at the real situation.
I have choice of 4 garages going out of Rotherham.(towards M18). Between them that's 44 pumps. There are 2 charging points. (both at same garage) Each can dispense approx 200 miles per hour. (depending on vehicle its going in but roughy 50kwh represents 200 miles? )
Each of those 44 pumps can (and does) dispense 200 miles in 5 minutes.
So each pump is equivalent to more than 10 charging points.???
We haven't even scratched the surface with the number required.
We need a massive improvement in battery density. (which will come)
We need a massive improvement in transfer rates, which probably wont, and even taking into account home charging we still need thousands and thousands of charging points, and placed at logical places. Otherwise the EV will just be more problematic than desireable for decades.
There just isn't any planning around placement of chargers. They are springing up where not needed. During war Germans and Alies buried petrol in the desert, where they thought it would be needed. We, re putting it at our doorsteps. I don't need a charger in my home town, I would have my own. It's needed perhaps 30 miles out from major connobations... Logistics, and for all reasons you, ve pointed out, are completely different to fuel stations. No planning, no joined up thinking, no cohesion.
I know let's stick a charger in Lidl. Somebody should have planned this out, there should already be charging stations at strategic points. Airports wouldn't be a bad start? Rings drawn 30 miles around Cities, and put some there. Then to towns and popular destinations. A real Network, not this stupid hodge podge we are seeing at moment?

The coming EV batteries will sweep away fossil fuel transport, with or without net zero

Read this exclusive extract from our Economic Intelligence newsletter and sign up at the bottom of the article to get it every Tuesday

www.telegraph.co.uk

But this, much as its fantastic, will mean folk sat at charging stations longer..
Really can't understand your negativity on this Flecc. We need a network of charging stations and quickly.

I fully agree that parts of the North are very poorly covered at the moment, but down here it is very different. Because as I've posted to you before, this is where the money and the EVs are. In many strategic locations there are charging stations with multiple units per location, 8, 12 or 20 or more at each. Trouble is you are not keeping yourself up to date as I am with newsletters advising every increase and new investment, so you imagine nothing is happening when the growth is in fact very rapid now.

You've also ignored the different strategy that I've posted about, the constant top up system that is being pursued. So you mistakenly think a charger in Lidl is wrong when it is in fact very right. That is why chargers are going in as all manner of like places, car parks, supermarkets, gyms, sports centres, fast food outlets, even the workplaces we commute to and the streets we park on overnight.

The idea being that we top up at each place where we naturally stop anyway, so not wasting any time in charging, just using other stopped time for it. That makes more sense than standing at a fuel pump waiting as the tank fills. This charging strategy is based on the fact that the vast majority of cars spend most of their time on such utility journeys and stopped in such locations. There's also the temptation of the top up sometimes being free as a loss leader to get custom.

You see, strategic very sensible planning that has been happening but you ignore.

We are not yet ready enough for the en-route charging you are advocating since the vast majority of the few EVs we have at present have too short a range anyway and can't use the latest ultra high rate chargers which add 100 to 150 miles per 5 minutes charging. Those charge points have been going in ahead of the cars to use them arriving, but once again you seem unaware of that.

Remember, we only have 0.6 million full e-cars, 1.8% of the fleet, most only being used quite locally hence the 85% of charging being at home, and we are struggling to deliver the more advanced e-cars rapidly enough. The new chargers are going in more rapidly than the new cars are being delivered, but their coverage will be uneven for some while. That's as it should be with our poor financial state and more urgent priorities than the luxury of EVs.

2050 is the the target, not 2023.
.

 

[Zlatan]

I fully agree that parts of the North are very poorly covered at the moment, but down here it is very different. Because as I've posted to you before, this is where the money and the EVs are. In many strategic locations there are charging stations with multiple units per location, 8, 12 or 20 or more at each. Trouble is you are not keeping yourself up to date as I am with newsletters advising every increase and new investment, so you imagine nothing is happening when the growth is in fact very rapid now.

You've also ignored the different strategy that I've posted about, the constant top up system that is being pursued. So you mistakenly think a charger in Lidl is wrong when it is in fact very right. That is why chargers are going in as all manner of like places, car parks, supermarkets, gyms, sports centres, fast food outlets, even the workplaces we commute to and the streets we park on overnight.

The idea being that we top up at each place where we naturally stop anyway, so not wasting any time in charging, just using other stopped time for it. That makes more sense than standing at a fuel pump waiting as the tank fills. This charging strategy is based on the fact that the vast majority of cars spend most of their time on such utility journeys and stopped in such locations. There's also the temptation of the top up sometimes being free as a loss leader to get custom.

You see, strategic very sensible planning that has been happening but you ignore.

We are not yet ready enough for the en-route charging you are advocating since the vast majority of the few EVs we have at present have too short a range anyway and can't use the latest ultra high rate chargers which add 100 to 150 miles per 5 minutes charging. Those charge points have been going in ahead of the cars to use them arriving, but once again you seem unaware of that.

Remember, we only have 0.6 million full e-cars, 1.8% of the fleet, most only being used quite locally hence the 85% of charging being at home, and we are struggling to deliver the more advanced e-cars rapidly enough. The new chargers are going in more rapidly than the new cars are being delivered, but their coverage will be uneven for some while. That's as it should be with our poor financial state and more urgent priorities than the luxury of EVs.

2050 is the the target, not 2023.
.

As normal, good points well made..
The keeping on top of charging, whilst at Lidl etc is fair enough, but hardly strategic. I, d have thought most folk visiting Lidl have come from very close by, same for Supermarkets etc. They could, should really charge at home. (for economy and logistics of those who don't live within 40 miles)
To bee fair I do suspect MG4 EV would work for me. (250 mile range on 64kwh) but to really attract me topping up 30 miles either side of coast or home would /should be viable. To my mind that would be the strategic approach. Make EVs viable (with security) for a regular 200 mile trip,with a safety net incase of road works /detours or whatever.
Having spoken with quite a few running EVs it seems their experience is suggesting 70% or so of running can be with home charging, but they all suggest planning on 30% with charge points. I don't think that is viable for me just yet. My feeling is it already should be.And again, to repeat the point. For it to become viable fitting of charge points (and at right places) must outstrip sales of EVs by some margin. Catch 22?

 

[jonathan.agnew]

As normal, good points well made..
The keeping on top of charging, whilst at Lidl etc is fair enough, but hardly strategic. I, d have thought most folk visiting Lidl have come from very close by, same for Supermarkets etc. They could, should really charge at home. (for economy and logistics of those who don't live within 40 miles)
To bee fair I do suspect MG4 EV would work for me. (250 mile range on 64kwh) but to really attract me topping up 30 miles either side of coast or home would /should be viable. To my mind that would be the strategic approach. Make EVs viable (with security) for a regular 200 mile trip,with a safety net incase of road works /detours or whatever.
Having spoken with quite a few running EVs it seems their experience is suggesting 70% or so of running can be with home charging, but they all suggest planning on 30% with charge points. I don't think that is viable for me just yet. My feeling is it already should be.And again, to repeat the point. For it to become viable fitting of charge points (and at right places) must outstrip sales of EVs by some margin. Catch 22?

I wouldn't have an ev without home charging. In my neck of the woods public charge points can be unreliable and when i need to travel 200 miles by car its frequently unnegotiable, not something i can risk not having immediately available. I'm as concerned about the environment as any other right minded person, but would have an ice if I didn't have it. But it contrasts with my experience of the continent, a historically poor region like calabria. With ten times better cheaper more reliable public transport than UK. Am sure it doesn't apply (travelling on train with windsurfer would be a challenge), but in calabria the same emergencies (say travelling rapidly from South London to Bournemouth, which on uk public network becomes a massive pita) is pretty fast easy pleasant cheap straightforward. All by way of saying we'd need fewer cars, ev or ice, if we were a bit better at managing ourselves generally

 

[flecc]

The keeping on top of charging, whilst at Lidl etc is fair enough, but hardly strategic. I, d have thought most folk visiting Lidl have come from very close by, same for Supermarkets etc. They could, should really charge at home. (for economy and logistics of those who don't live within 40 miles)

People often combine two or three trips into one, since it makes good time and economic sense. I certainly do and as people get more hard up I suspect that will be more common. That's when topping up at one of the places will make sense. Remember than an elderly Leaf or Zoe may have under 30 usable miles left in mid winter of its original Summer range of 70 miles, so it's charge every trip anyway. It's those cheap older EVs that are becoming second/wives/and Jonathan(!) cars, two near to me. And of course the free "loss leader" chargers are better than 35 p per unit at home. As of November 2022 3,961 were free to use. Put another way, that’s around 11% of all EV charging points that won’t incur a cost !! What muggins wouldn't use them?

30 miles either side of coast or home would /should be viable. To my mind that would be the strategic approach. Make EVs viable (with security) for a regular 200 mile trip,with a safety net incase of road works /detours or whatever. My feeling is it already should be.

For very many areas this is already the case, especially for most people since 86% of the population live in major towns or cities and are mostly well served both in and around. And the safety nets exist. Nissan and others have a first year 24/365 get e-car and passengers home free if out of charge. And the RAC and AA both have emergency topping up equipment on board already.

For it to become viable fitting of charge points (and at right places) must outstrip sales of EVs by some margin.

True already as I had only just posted, just not absolutely everywhere but catching up fast.

We are still seven years away from when the official change to e-cars even starts. It's from then that the 20 year change will gradually happen, to be completed by 2050.
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