The "death" of the car, (as we know it)

[flecc]

Also, a standard battery which could be mechanically swapped at filling stations in a matter of minutes.

Israel had such a car system, jointly developed with Renault and using a modified Renault Fluence model with battery swapping stations. The Company was called Better Place, well funded and backed by Tesla.

Founded in 2008, they began operationally in 2012 and went bankrupt in 2013.

Now another Israeli company is pursuing very fast charge instead and that seems to be the preferred option internationally, so battery swapping is looking increasingly like a dead duck. It has numerous intrinsic problems.
.

 

[Ruadh495]

Not too sure where I saw it but, I do believe that an Insurance broker has the solution with a scheme that insures by the hour. I'll do a Google later and update. Found it INSURE BY THE HOUR

Nice idea, but it would only work for a borrowing a vehicle which is also insured by it's owner. It's a response to the abolition of the "any driver" policy, not a way of tailoring insurance to actual usage on a car which you own.

The reason: continuous insurance. It's actually illegal to own a vehicle with current VED but without current insurance, even if the vehicle is not on a public road. You would have to declare SORN every hour, then retax the vehicle every time you wanted to use it...

 

[flecc]

It's actually illegal to own a vehicle with current VED but without current insurance, even if the vehicle is not on a public road.

There is an exception that two of my friends use, motor trade insurance. That covers a trader using any taxed but otherwise uninsured vehicle. There are some restrictions, for example any vehicle the trader has bought that reaches three months in his possession should be notified to the DVLA for listing within his trade insurance. Presumably that's to minimise the false ANPR alerts.

It's a widely abused insurance method, for example only one of those friends trades or repairs vehicles at all. The other just has four vehicles and this trade insurance works out much cheaper than insuring them all, and he's just one of many thousands doing the same. All anyone need do is say they are a motor trader, for example if living in a road called Court Road, call yourself Court Motors.
.

 

[Denis99]

Haven't read all the thread, so bear with me.

We have solar panels, Nissan Leaf , Tesla Powerwall 2 battery and off street parking with a 7 kw charger installed.

At present the rapid charger network is expanding, but there are still issues surrounding getting charge easily.

Ignorant motorists parking in a designated Rapid Charger bay, very similar to the same people parking in disabled driver bays.

For the EV car to really become more popular, it will take charge points to be available at places of work and shopping centres etc.

Not everyone will have access to home charging, but I believe that this is the way forward.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I am more radical in my thinking. I don't believe individual car ownership is the way forward, rental is a much better solution. Individual short range transport is the issue and that's is what this forum is all about. Today I was informed by an open letter to the President Macron from the president of the FUB that France's pedelec rebate has been suppressed for 2018... Apparently something new is in the works though no details have been released yet. 1000€ like Sweden? Not dreaming...

Kids, cargo (light), disabled and elderly - we have e-bike solutions for all those. Weather protection - we have it or solutions are available. So what is holding us back?

1. Cost to buy. A vélomobile costs more than a small car. A Twizy or similar costs more to run than a Dacia. Cargo bikes and even high end commuter bikes they all cost too much up front. Most people don't take the time to sit down in front of a spreadsheet to work out cost over 5 years (typical use of most vehicles). Running costs are not an issue (except for the Twizy which has excessive battery rental fees).

2. Infrastructure. Secure parking and cycle routes (paths don't make the cut I'm afraid...) and, to a lesser degree, charging points just aren't there except for a couple of countries in the EU (NL, DK). Bikes and pedestrians have to go out of their way so that cars get the shortest route from point A to point B, something is very wrong in that logic, it should be the other way round.

3. Security. Drivers of vehicles that kill, drivers with bad attitude will always be there unfortunately but greater efforts should be made in driver education. An educated driver makes a more respectful pedestrian or cyclist. Well one can be an optimist and hope that is true... I am witness to the attitude of drivers from two different countries and I feel much safer on Spanish roads than on French ones.

 

[anotherkiwi]

 

[Zlatan]

I think most frightened I,ve ever seen Clarkson was when he sat in a driverless m5 (??) set up to race around some circuit. He trully looked petrified. Cant remember time it set but it is widely believed that top drivers can actually get a car around a bend faster than it should be theoretically possible..( yes, I,m not sure either) But could AI have sensitivity and forethought to predict grip in next bend ? ( In altering conditions, can AI make guesses and cope with mistakes ??)Racing driverless cars would be rather pointless I suppose..but current legislation being worked out for F1 post 2020 will see more driver aids and less dependency on driver skill. Do they know something we dont ? Hamilton replaced by a chip ??? Would save Merc a lot of money ??

 

[flecc]

I have to disagree, for me it was a wasted hour. I have no argument about disruptive technology, there have been some excellent programs on that subject, nor do I argue about the factual but irrelevant subjects he covered like costs and battery advances. But it was a wasted hour for me since, firstly much of it was irrelevant to the driverless car subject, secondly because the lecture was such a weird mix of fact, fiction and utter nonsense.

Just some samples of the utter nonsense he spouted:

All Tesla models will have no steering wheel or pedals in 2019. That year is 14 months away.

Solar generation will be the leading method of power generation in 2021, three years away.

All cars will be autonomous driverless EVs in 2030, just 12 years away.

100% of the world's energy generation will be solar in 2030, again just 12 years away.

I could go on with many more examples from his lecture, but frankly if this man believes what he says he is an idiot, so I don't want to waste any more time on the ludicrous arguments he's promoting.

Therefore I'll end my participation with these challenges:

Come back in 2019 and tell me I was wrong about the Tesla models.

Come back in 2021 and tell me that the majority of energy generation is solar.

I could just be around in 12 years time, so come back then and tell me I was wrong about the 100% driverles cars then and 100% of the world's energy generation being solar.

I say you won't be able to truthfully post any one of those.
.

 

[Danidl]

Flecc,
You need to think outside the box..
That Tesla will have no steering wheels or pedals in 2018, .. could easily be realised ... By their purchasing department making a monumental error.

Virtually all energy used on planet earth is pure solar.. ok some of was picked up and stored millions of years ago.

 

[anotherkiwi]

As he said he has been wrong by a couple of years before. Both ways...

 

[Zlatan]

Flecc,
You need to think outside the box..
That Tesla will have no steering wheels or pedals in 2018, .. could easily be realised ... By their purchasing department making a monumental error.

Virtually all energy used on planet earth is pure solar.. ok some of was picked up and stored millions of years ago.

Which was picked up years ago ? Thought all energy now available was originally solar ???

 

[PeterL]

I have to disagree, for me it was a wasted hour. I have no argument about disruptive technology, there have been some excellent programs on that subject, nor do I argue about the factual but irrelevant subjects he covered like costs and battery advances. But it was a wasted hour for me since, firstly much of it was irrelevant to the driverless car subject, secondly because the lecture was such a weird mix of fact, fiction and utter nonsense.

Just some samples of the utter nonsense he spouted:

All Tesla models will have no steering wheel or pedals in 2019. That year is 14 months away.

Solar generation will be the leading method of power generation in 2021, three years away.

All cars will be autonomous driverless EVs in 2030, just 12 years away.

100% of the world's energy generation will be solar in 2030, again just 12 years away.

I could go on with many more examples from his lecture, but frankly if this man believes what he says he is an idiot, so I don't want to waste any more time on the ludicrous arguments he's promoting.

Therefore I'll end my participation with these challenges:

Come back in 2019 and tell me I was wrong about the Tesla models.

Come back in 2021 and tell me that the majority of energy generation is solar.

I could just be around in 12 years time, so come back then and tell me I was wrong about the 100% driverles cars then and 100% of the world's energy generation being solar.

I say you won't be able to truthfully post any one of those.
.

There might be the odd bit that you can pick a hole in but this response is surely a bit OTT? (not unlike the other thread can be). The general thrust of what he has to say rings very true and I suspect, tempting as it might be, I have bought my last car. I will do short-term lease from now on, until I can call UBER to take me wherever. As an OAP, that really does change the future, and not just for me. It is empowering.

 

[PeterL]

Solar generation will be the leading method of power generation in 2021, three years away.
.

I can certainly see this being true. Much/most of the world population has no power currently, mostly where the sun shines most of the day - solar power is their solution?

 

[PeterL]

I could go on with many more examples from his lecture, but frankly if this man believes what he says he is an idiot, so I don't want to waste any more time on the ludicrous arguments he's promoting.
.

This sounds very much like the OP on the other thread, wonder if OG has signed in as you?

 

[Danidl]

Which was picked up years ago ? Thought all energy now available was originally solar ???

All of the fossil fuels were of course solar energy originated.. But the nuclear derived energy is different would need to be listed as nebulae derived hence my reservation...

 

[Zlatan]

All of the fossil fuels were of course solar energy originated.. But the nuclear derived energy is different would need to be listed as nebulae derived hence my reservation...

Didn't realise that, assumed radio active had at some stage been solar. ( ie not energy collected but radio active elements from the sun itself ?) We learn something everyday..!
Where was nebulae originally ?

 

[Zlatan]

"These elements were radioactive when the earth was formed. They came from the supernova that produced all the elements on earth. The elements were produced by fusion in the star. The force of fusion was sufficient in the last stages of the supernova to produce the elements heavier than lead (e.g., uranium and thorium)."

Think its debatable.I think its still solar derived but I see your point.

 

[flecc]

There might be the odd bit that you can pick a hole in but this response is surely a bit OTT? (not unlike the other thread can be). The general thrust of what he has to say rings very true and I suspect, tempting as it might be, I have bought my last car. I will do short-term lease from now on, until I can call UBER to take me wherever. As an OAP, that really does change the future, and not just for me. It is empowering.

Not at all OTT, that describes the statements that man is making. Your saying the "odd bit" can have a hole picked is a huge understatement. I've only quoted a few samples of his gross exaggeration but with time I could make that a very long list, since he cleverly interspersed such nonsense with factual statement thoughout almost all of the lecture. He obviously had an audience who were very receptive, being already in favour of the such projections and that fairly describes you too. You seem to have lost your critical faculties in respect of this subject, as have others.

I've issued my challenge and you only have to wait just over a year to show me that I've been wrong in my first criticism and not too much longer for the second chance.

Therefore I wont answer your other two responses, time will make the responses for me.
.

 

[flecc]

Flecc,
You need to think outside the box..
That Tesla will have no steering wheels or pedals in 2018, .. could easily be realised ... By their purchasing department making a monumental error.

Virtually all energy used on planet earth is pure solar.. ok some of was picked up and stored millions of years ago.

Of course I fully realised all those things before, but they are factually irrelevant to what is being argued here.
.

 

[PeterL]

He obviously had an audience who were very receptive, being already in favour of the such projections and that fairly describes you too. You seem to have lost your critical faculties in respect of this subject, as have others.
.

I'm an optimist by nature, of just about most things, including people, albeit I have to admit it has been sorely questioned of late. Not by you I might add. That said, I don't think I'm a fool and like to understand how things work, this is a good thread in that respect - I'm learning something new every day.