Swiss Flyer e bike, voltage unknown?

[tim25]

I recently purchased a Swiss Flyer Bicycle needing a battery and some restoration. I can't find any Markings on it and I don't know what model it is. My guess is that its from about 2012, It has some nice components like a mid drive motor, magura hydraulic rim brakes, alfine /nexus geared hub and a speed lifter twist headset.
Its a strange looking bike but it looks to have some potential to me. I dont even know how many volts it takes. My research suggest that some of them worked on a panasonic 26V system and some on 36 volts, any one got any ideas what this is or how i can find out?
Ive got a spare generic 36 v battery and am keen to plug it in and see, but dont want to blow the controller straight away...

 

[Nealh]

The actual model is the Flyer C model 2003 - 2018.
The updated modern version is called the Gotour4 and is 4k euros.

 

[flecc]

I recently purchased a Swiss Flyer Bicycle needing a battery and some restoration. I can't find any Markings on it and I don't know what model it is. My guess is that its from about 2012, It has some nice components like a mid drive motor, magura hydraulic rim brakes, alfine /nexus geared hub and a speed lifter twist headset.
Its a strange looking bike but it looks to have some potential to me. I dont even know how many volts it takes. My research suggest that some of them worked on a panasonic 26V system and some on 36 volts, any one got any ideas what this is or how i can find out?
Ive got a spare generic 36 v battery and am keen to plug it in and see, but dont want to blow the controller straight away...

It's virtually certain to be the 26 volt unit from late 2007 on:

Below is a photo of a bike with the 36 volt unit, note the different motor outer casing with Electric Motor Unit printed on it:

 

[tim25]

Thanks for your reply’s, with both the model name nealh and voltage types flecc. Any ideas if I ’ll blow the controller with 36v? Seems an unusual voltage to get a 26v battery, unusual normally is expensive!
Perhaps I could stick a buck converter on my 36 volt battery to lower the voltage.

 

[Benjahmin]

I think 26v was down to the battery chemistry of the day. Now it would be a 24v Lithium.
The only way to know if the controller will take 36v is to open the controller and see what voltage the inrush capacitors are marked as, they need to be at least 40v.
Otherwise you could replace the controller but this would mean also replacing the display and maybe other ancillaries.

 

[Nealh]

In rush caps need a bit of over head voltage, ideally they would be 50/60v also with using 36v on a 24/26v system the lvc & hvc will be incompatible with the voltage so one will cause controller damage. Being a mid drive they are not two trick ponies when it comes to voltage so stick with the required voltage needed.

It is the same with todays mid drives , BBS & tsdz both are strictly 36 or 48v.

 

[Nealh]

Apply a 24v charger (a temporary adapter will be needed) to the motor input wiring to check it works , then one may be able to fit a 24v lion silver fish type battery to the bike if the space is adequate. The silverfish often are supplied with a fitting kit inc the bottom plate.

 

[flecc]

I think 26v was down to the battery chemistry of the day.

Other way round, they were 26 volt lithium 7 x 3.7 volt cells = 25.9 volts.

24 volt is a leftover expression from earlier NiMh and NiCad, 20 x 1.2 volts cells.
.

 

[Nealh]

3.6v is associated with li-on as the nominal voltage and 3.7v is associated with li-po pouch cell nominal voltage . One expects the 26v battery was of pouch cell chemistry much the same as my Swizzbee was after the change over from Nimh cells, latterly the chem on my #1 bike was recelled with li-on cells.

The Swizzbee BMS was capable of 33v max so one could have opted for a 8s 28v or 9s 32v battery.

 

[flecc]

Apply a 24v charger (a temporary adapter will be needed) to the motor input wiring to check it works , then one may be able to fit a 24v lion silver fish type battery to the bike if the space is adequate. The silverfish often are supplied with a fitting kit inc the bottom plate.

I'm afraid they are "smart" units Neal, refusing to operate without the three connections made by a correct lithium battery. They have five connections, three used during charging, a different three while running.

At this age the unit could well be a dud, many failed beyond five years old, but only borrowing a correct battery will show if it's ok.
.

 

[flecc]

One expects the 26v battery was of pouch cell chemistry

Indeed, this is one of them:

 

[Nealh]

Previous FLYER e-bike models | FLYER E-Bikes (flyer-bikes.com)

 

[flecc]

Previous FLYER e-bike models | FLYER E-Bikes (flyer-bikes.com)

One has to be careful in getting a battery for the Panasonic units. The X series Flyer and some other later Flyer models used a much wider battery which required the unit to have widened cranks arms to clear the battery.
.

 

[Nealh]

Due to the bike age and the smart handshaking the bike is a relic of early ebikes and likely for the cost of getting it running is a museum piece , if one had the original battery with the smart BMS it may be possible to get it re-celled with out bricking the BMS.

The Swizz bee wasn't such a case it using old brushed motor tech and a generic battery set up, again my pair are older 2006 bikes and generally are museum pieces due to their frailalty and no spares .
One bike isn't a good runner as the brushes were playing up , though I managed to change them the motor doesn't run to well, This one has the re-celled battery case which Jimmy used Boston cells for.
The other is complete and re- celled with a new battery that I made and retro fitted with two packs in parallel an 23.2ah 80a PF pack and a 17.5ah 140a HE2 pack, in total 976wh for a range of 60 miles or so.

 

[flecc]

Yes, my advice to the OP is to forget this old Flyer. Panasonic have never made any spares available, their circuit board is fully encapsulated and sealed into the crankcase side so impossible to repair anyway. They were always intended to be repair by replacement only, the units originally at circa £500 each, but no longer available.
.

 

[tim25]

Thanks everyone for your helpful suggestions!

Im a little dissapointed that the verdict is not looking good for the flyers future!
Im not looking to invest alot of money into it and may have to gracefully bow out... shame because it looks so well put together.

But not too sad as i like lots of the parts and i paid very little for it and I still will get to play around with an interesting piece of e biking history...I look forward to opening up the motor and seeing how it works?

My heart is still set on my possibly crazy home made mid drive system, I currently ride an overvolted hub drive which i enjoy alot.

The parts like the Handlebar Stem twist function looks like it will be useful for small living spaces. + 2 very smooth running wheels with marathon plus tyres! and a load of other parts for my fantasy future home built bicycles.

Many thanks every one for your contributions!

I may return with more qustions yet like ..

Is it a ridiculous idea to try and hook up a spare 36 volt KT hub motor controller to the phase wires and hall sensor wires and see if it goes?

I dont even know if its brushless or brushed?

 

[Nealh]

One would suspect it is a three phase BLDC type.
One should be able to run it off a third party controller though if it also uses motor halls as well , there will be 36 wiring combo's to find the best one that will work.
The othe rissue is 36v will involve the drive rpm to be higher then designed for so cadence may be to fast for it to be effiecent.

 

[tim25]

LOL.. ive been through the 36 wiring combos on a previous bike, still got the chart somewhere.

Also good point about the cadence issue, and i cant buck the voltage down because the 24v desired would be too low for my 36v controller.

hmm, more thought required

 

[flecc]

Thanks everyone for your helpful suggestions!

Im a little dissapointed that the verdict is not looking good for the flyers future!
Im not looking to invest alot of money into it and may have to gracefully bow out... shame because it looks so well put together.

But not too sad as i like lots of the parts and i paid very little for it and I still will get to play around with an interesting piece of e biking history...I look forward to opening up the motor and seeing how it works?

My heart is still set on my possibly crazy home made mid drive system, I currently ride an overvolted hub drive which i enjoy alot.

The parts like the Handlebar Stem twist function looks like it will be useful for small living spaces. + 2 very smooth running wheels with marathon plus tyres! and a load of other parts for my fantasy future home built bicycles.

Many thanks every one for your contributions!

I may return with more qustions yet like ..

Is it a ridiculous idea to try and hook up a spare 36 volt KT hub motor controller to the phase wires and hall sensor wires and see if it goes?

I dont even know if its brushless or brushed?

All your questions answered on my Panasonic web page Tim. Use the section for the New Type Motor and there's also some relevant information on the Old Type Unit strip downpage:

http://www.flecc.uk/p/panindex.html
.

 

[tim25]

oh ,very interesting thanks Flecc